Prioritization for Home Defense

Status
Not open for further replies.
I think that "mindset" is different than some. For "home defense" the mindset should be to keep the aggressor out of the home instead of first thinking of weapons to respond to the aggressor in the home. Keep them out and you have achieved the best goal. Then you have to consider how to do that. It isn't just build a wall and a gate, but how you make aggressors want to go somewhere else. How do you become less interesting or appear to be not worth the effort or too difficult a target. There have been threads on this before, but they can be summed up as

Practice good information security and stay away from people and practices that are sketchy.
Define the boundary of your property and erect a fence or wall. It is more a psychological barrier than physical.
Make the property less attractive to approach. Remove place to hide, put out a large dog house (even if you don't have a large dog), salt the property with a couple of kid's toys (people with kids are less able to afford valuable "stuff").
Light the property with automatic as well as timer lights.
Harden your access points. If nothing else use long deck screws to mount doors and use long throw dead bolts with security plates, pin double hung windows, apply anti-shatter film. Use metal or fiberglass doors if you can.
Install an alarm system with video.
 
lock your door, it might take a motivated person - 5 seconds longer to kick it in, which is probably enough time to get a head start to a weapon you may have somewhere …dog also notifies us anytime anyone is around the house, yes - and sometimes when they are not which is kind of annoying at 3:30AM and you have to get up to go to work in a few hours. exterior lights around entry doors, and supposed to be a huge deterrent, but I have no evidence of this, just something I've read numerous times, but could be fake news from the echo chamber. make sure the screws holding the plate for locks on your door are not 3/4" screws. Update them to 3 1/2" screws that go deeply into the framing.

leave a motor sitting in the side of your yard. I don't know about you, but it is weird enough - and you would have to think about who leaves a motor in their yard - and they'll just pick an easier target, being the house with no motor sitting in the yard. also, put some trash, beer cans, and cigarette butts around the motor. also, a half worked on pile of firewood is good IMO too. it says - a person who lives here - owns and axe, and is physically capable of swinging it.
 
we seem to be debating toolset, saying tools beat mindset,
'm not really surpised that a lot of the responses have has to do withe guns. At least the discussion of tools had expanded beyond the shotgun next to the bed.

and implying you don't have time to get to a gun when someone bursts into your home, but you do have time to get to your camera.
If the first indication the defender has is the breaking of wood, and if the break-in occurs between the defender and the firearm, the defender will be unlikely to be able to access the firearm

The tell-tale sound of feat on the gravel under the window can provide just a little more time.

The sound of the motion sensor can provide still more. time.

The camera receiver and the intercom are in my pocket. They can tell me what's gong on. UPS? The guy sho sprays for bugs? Someone to worry about? They might have helped a lot in the recent day-time home invasion in Glendale. MO/

n the context of a home invasion where you don't even have time to go to your bedroom to retrieve your rifle, taking the time to open your phone and view images seems sketchy.

No, the time to view images is before one knows that the castle is imminent.

'm assuming that the OP is talking about home defense in the context that one is actually inside the home when bad people come calling.
Yes indeed.

having the most amazing firearm will not do you any good if you can not hit with it.
Indeed!

I wonder how many people who keep a defensive shotgun in the bedroom have any idea of how small the pattern is at twenty feet or less.....
 
That is certainly the case. I've seen it from good ol' boy self taught experts. That's why I harp on practice and training. Yes, the average person may carry the day but as Marty Hayes says - we train for the anomalies. Shoot a shotgun competition and watch skilled folks miss and have the gun go bellow up. Try carrying it around for a bit of time, gets tiring. Not to say the dreaded hostage shot if it came to that.

Flight controlled buck is recommended, nowadays. Fun example, guy with birdshot and a rifled barrel. Shoots a very wide donut with few pellets in the center. Complete surprise to him when he looks at his target.

Had an co-worker who was annoyed because his elderly wife wouldn't shoot his pistol grip pump with magnum loads for stopping power. He was a 'gun' guy - big bird expert. Yeah, crossed his thumbs behind his Glock slide at the range. Ouch.
 
I travel for work and absolutely cannot carry a gun while on the job. I leave one in my car in a hidden compartment. So far, so good. The first thing in my travel bag is a door stop alarm. They are inexpensive, work really well and easy to maintain. I am pretty much on my own if I ever hear it do its thing but I've taken steps to do what I can to keep myself safe.

I cannot imagine why anyone wouldn't have a house or apartment alarm. They are easily accessible and nothing like the wired nightmares of yesteryear.

Dogs are great alarms. Ours is sixteen years old, deaf; spoiled beyond belief and the last one. Believe me.

My guns and ammo are in a hidden, fire-proof safe. Nothing is completely fool-proof but we did the best that we could with this.

I keep a loaded .442 AIrweight .38 in my nightstand drawer. I sleep better.

Thanks, OP, Kleanbore. It's a good post.
 
I wonder how many people who keep a defensive shotgun in the bedroom have any idea of how small the pattern is at twenty feet or less.....
I seriously doubt many do. The ones that do, are the ones that don't believe "you can't miss with a shotgun" and likely also don't believe most perps will soil their drawers and run at the sound of their Mossberg 500 being racked.

Personally, I go with my carry weapon mostly for HD, as I hit better with that than any weapon I own, save for my custom pin gun. (They're close) If thinking it may be very serious poop, I keep my RDB loaded in the safe. I do have a shotgun, (Moss 930 SPX) for my third arm of defensive weapons, but it's the last of the 3. Simply my choice.

I think I've spent more time shooting a variety of weapons and training this year, than I have in the previous 25 years put together, ever since I was prepping for IPSC. Amazing how much I retained in those years, and probably why my best shooting defense weapon (a 1911) is my EDC.

I also keep a set of E-muffs on the nightstand, which amplify my hearing normally, but cut off impulse noise with 30dB attenuation. Could be a hearing saver if you have the chance to don them.
 
Last edited:
I haven't found a holster that works well with things like workout gear, PJ's, etc.

When I have shorts on or workout gear without pockets I use this SmartCarry with a P3AT that I normally pocket carry around the house. Shown is with my G17 for a bump in the night rig (PJ Carry) ;)

f9eae45ded3d5a964501e2b72bfaee37.jpg
 
Where we live is remote or about 15 miles from the nearest small town. Or response time here is way too slow as any self respecting thief would be long gone before LE would arrive.
The nearest neighbor is about 3/4 to a mile away. In short, most solutions offered wouldn't work for us hicks in the sticks because we don't live in an urban or suburban area.

Every situation is different or what works for one doesn't work for all.
 
I like hso's list at the top of the page.
I have a ranch in the boonies 6 miles from the nearest neighbor and accessed by a confusing network of trails.
Even if the sheriff knew the way it is the better part of an hour,.. and they don't know the way.

If I see somebody on my ranch they have already gone through a signed gate and trespassed across the adjacent grazing property some half mile to reach my locked and signed gate. Then it is a mile to my place hidden behind a hill.

Anybody I see there is not a lost hiker. They are deliberate interlopers and lawbreakers.

Prime candidates for a muzzle inspection. My muzzle, their inspection.

Sometimes the ground is muddy or snow covered, but they're gonna lie on it until I can coach the sheriff out.


Perhaps even longer,..
 
Everyone's situation is different in regards to HD as based on their actual HOME.

The one thing that is universal is firearms.

My home is a fairly nice for the age double wide from 1980. Although we have upgraded locks and added outdoor motion lighting it wouldnt take much to knock in a door. Thems the facts. Luckily I have ruffled my feathers for just such an occassion and have guns. I also live in the country so theres that.


Point is, apartment, rental, mobile home or traditional house everyone's situation is different. There are things that can be done to improve security and things that cant or wont matter. But being armed and proficient is beneficial across the board.
 
f I see somebody on my ranch they have already gone through a signed gate and trespassed across the adjacent grazing property some half mile to reach my locked and signed gate. Then it is a mile to my place hidden behind a hill.

Anybody I see there is not a lost hiker. They are deliberate interlopers and lawbreakers.

Prime candidates for a muzzle inspection. My muzzle, their inspection.
Careful! People have served time for threatening deadly force (pointing a gun) at a trespasser.

In Utah, you may lawfully do so if an only of you have a basis for a reasonable belief that the trespasser representts an imminent threat of serious harm abd deadly force is immediately necessary

Trespass is not a prequisite. The same justification works at the Walmart lot.
 
I like hso's list at the top of the page.
I have a ranch in the boonies 6 miles from the nearest neighbor and accessed by a confusing network of trails.
Even if the sheriff knew the way it is the better part of an hour,.. and they don't know the way.

If I see somebody on my ranch they have already gone through a signed gate and trespassed across the adjacent grazing property some half mile to reach my locked and signed gate. Then it is a mile to my place hidden behind a hill.

Anybody I see there is not a lost hiker. They are deliberate interlopers and lawbreakers.

Prime candidates for a muzzle inspection. My muzzle, their inspection.

Sometimes the ground is muddy or snow covered, but they're gonna lie on it until I can coach the sheriff out.


Perhaps even longer,..

Mere trespassing does not justify the threat of deadly force.
 
About the defensive shotgun...

A lot of people keep a defensive shotgun, not because they misunderstand pattern spread, but because they what something effective with a lower chance of endangering others outside the house.
 
Come on. You do this thread an injustice when you don't treat home defense, or any defense, as a layered, holistic concept.

You're doing me an injustice because I never suggested it wasn't a layered approach. Read: I have cameras, guns, dogs, gates, a dark foreboding driveway built so those who enter by vehicle must enter all the way before being able to turn around. I'm Iining it with deer skulls. I'd hang doll parts, bones, and mirrors from the trees but the wife put her foot down. I have a full overwatch of the gate and cover, not concealment, from my 2nd floor bedroom. The angles are favorable but not for the intruder at the gate and to top the look off I have an early 80s single wide I'm tearing down so the property screams methhead ranch. The fencing is a never ending work in progress because multi acre fencing is big money to do right. My own brother was afraid to come in my driveway the first time thinking it was the wrong address so tell me all about holistic and layered.

I built from the foundation up with security as top priority. And within that list of priorities I had multiple dogs before cameras so I don't feel I'm doing a disservice here by suggesting dogs before cameras for rural folks who are able. I would suggest a gate before dogs. A secure front door before a gate. A scary as heck property before a secure front door. And a gun before a scary as heck property. After that I'm all about a camera system.
 
You're doing me an injustice because I never suggested it wasn't a layered approach. Read: I have cameras, guns, dogs, gates, a dark foreboding driveway built so those who enter by vehicle must enter all the way before being able to turn around. I'm Iining it with deer skulls. I'd hang doll parts, bones, and mirrors from the trees but the wife put her foot down. I have a full overwatch of the gate and cover, not concealment, from my 2nd floor bedroom. The angles are favorable but not for the intruder at the gate and to top the look off I have an early 80s single wide I'm tearing down so the property screams methhead ranch. The fencing is a never ending work in progress because multi acre fencing is big money to do right. My own brother was afraid to come in my driveway the first time thinking it was the wrong address so tell me all about holistic and layered.

I built from the foundation up with security as top priority. And within that list of priorities I had multiple dogs before cameras so I don't feel I'm doing a disservice here by suggesting dogs before cameras for rural folks who are able. I would suggest a gate before dogs. A secure front door before a gate. A scary as heck property before a secure front door. And a gun before a scary as heck property. After that I'm all about a camera system.

I stand corrected.
 
Any system can be breached with tools, time, equipment, people etc. The purpose of layers is to give yourself time. Or set up enough obstacles to make an assailant give up on the attempt. Have dogs that bark when they see/smell/hear something they don't like? Good. That is a layer. Have a security system? Another layer. It adds up to harden your home or place of business against intrusion.

I just ordered a base security system. Something I have been putting off for ages and can be added onto. Wife might not like the idea but she has been the one home on a few occasions when the door knob has rattled. I also have dogs. I doubt their ability to attack a person but their barking can probably raise a coma patient. And guns. It is a start.
 
Good locks, good dog, thorny bushes under windows, motion sensor exterior lighting, pea gravel walk paths around the house (try walking quietly on that). These will prevent the break-in. IF they get past all of that, THEN the gun/light/etc. come into play. It is best to keep them out at all costs then suffer a breach.
 
Any system can be breached with tools, time, equipment, people etc. The purpose of layers is to give yourself time. Or set up enough obstacles to make an assailant give up on the attempt.
Nailed it!

Good locks, good dog, thorny bushes under windows, motion sensor exterior lighting, pea gravel walk paths around the house (try walking quietly on that).
Don't forger an intercom and reinforced windows and doors.

These will prevent the break-in.
I wouldn't count on that. They should improve the odds, and failing that, perhaps give you a bit of time.

It is best to keep them out at all costs then suffer a breach.
It is best to keep them out, and that starts with not giving them a reaaon to come in.
 
Here's a thought experiment for you.

Pick a house around you at random. ANY house. Drive through your neighborhood, across town, or maybe next time you're on a road trip somewhere.

Ask yourself "Could I break into that house?"

Don't give yourself any caveats or outs, don't say "well, I COULD of it weren't for (risk factor)".

Treat it as a simple yes or no question.

I daresay anybody here would be hard pressed to come up with a single random house that they honestly could not break into if they wanted to.

Cameras? So what...I didn't ask if the risk of being videoed would deter you. Lots of lights and a clear view around the house? Again, I didn't ask if the risk of being seen would deter you.

Years ago (decades, really), I watched an episode of 60 Minutes where the subject was car break ins and theft. Obviously, there was a significant portion of the segment devoted to prevention, and the show starred a former criminal in the field. But when the question was put plainly "Is there anything people can do to prevent their car from being broken into our stolen" the guy being interviewed said "No. If I really want your car or what's in it, there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop me."

Deterrence isn't an absolute. It's always a balance of perceived risks vs. prospective gains.
 
Last edited:
I daresay anybody here would be hard pressed to come up with a single random house that they honestly could not break into if they wanted to.

We could form a burglary crew and convince ourselves fort Knox isn't out of reach. Doesn't mean it's true.

There are a couple places on my road that would likely result in death or maiming because of dogs (not just my place). So if I wanted to, yes possibly with serious planning, but realistically the risk, because of layered security, is way to great. Someone crazy enough to break in probably won't plan, someone clever enough would plan, and find a new target unless the payday warrants the risk. Few homes have valuables enough to risk death getting them.

Breaking in most homes is nothing more than a crowbar or a rock through a window. It's dogs and the owner who will physically stop you. "Can" and "did" are still two different terms.

Deterrence isn't an absolute. It's always a balance of perceived risks vs. prospective gains.

Excellent summation.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top