9mm carry loads

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One thing I don't really buy, is this claim that using what your local police use is likely to shield you from any legal blowback. I think it would be just as easy for a prosecutor to claim you were using what the local police use because you were wishing you were a cop and living out a fantasy, and you WANTED a chance to shoot someone.
 
Hornady's great stuff, but it's pricey.

I'm switching to the S&B 115 grain hollowpoints. It's very similar to the S&B 115 grain FMJs, and you can get it bulk for around 13$ a box.
I carry the same round in my Glock 19. Accurate, reliable, and affordable!!
 
One thing I don't really buy, is this claim that using what your local police use is likely to shield you from any legal blowback. I think it would be just as easy for a prosecutor to claim you were using what the local police use because you were wishing you were a cop and living out a fantasy, and you WANTED a chance to shoot someone.

I totally agree with this line of thinking. Saying "I dunno I looked on luckygunner to see whichever one was best is, after all I want the best to protect my family" is a far more relatable defense. The mas ayoob defense makes you sound like a gun nut imo.
 
One thing I don't really buy, is this claim that using what your local police use is likely to shield you from any legal blowback. I think it would be just as easy for a prosecutor to claim you were using what the local police use because you were wishing you were a cop and living out a fantasy, and you WANTED a chance to shoot someone.

They'll say that about you just carrying a gun in the first place...
 
That's really what I mean. If they are trying to hang you out, and spinning everything against you, everything you do can be used against you. You weren't trained well-enough. You were TOO well-trained. You used a cheap gun, which shows you weren't really serious about self-defense. You used a really expensive gun, which shows you were so obsessed with being armed you started spending extravagant amounts of money on it.

If that's what they are REALLY trying to do, then no. Using the same bullets the police use is not going to make them say; "Oh, that changes everything. I thought you were a white-trash racist who was looking for an opportunity to FINALLY get a chance to indulge your blood fetish and kill someone, and I was ready to take every aspect of your life and try to portray it in a way that makes you look like a thug and an oppressor, but when I saw in the report that you used Gold-Dots.....never mind, everything is fine, you're good."

No.
 
Which is why I don't worry about it. The attorney for the poor, innocent misunderstood thug- I'm sorry, "sweet little angel" - will be desperately grasping at straws and it will be real easy for a decent lawyer to demolish cockamane BS like that.

I have seen it. I was on a criminal jury for an Aggravated Sexual Assault of a Child case. I, and some of my fellow jurors, actually felt sorry for the prosecutors. They basically had no case at all & the defense tore them to pieces. They really looked stupid & like they just wanted to hide.
 
regular P 124 grain ball ammo. it is what I shoot for practice so - it is what goes in for carry. if it cycles 200 or 300 rounds of a cartridge I'll carry it. I have some hollow point, but it costs more - so, I've never really shot enough of it to consider it tested enough for me to rely on it. I also carry .32 ACP ball ammo sometimes, so - 9mm is way more powerful than .32 ACP, so - figure it is better to go bang and be accurate than fret over magical bullets … I do carry hollow point in revolvers, just no concern about it cycling or not - so, there's a shout out to revolver fans …
 
For the 9X19mm I utilize 147Gr-JHP Winchester Ranger, Federal HST and or Remington Golden Saber. I seriously doubt one could tell the difference between the previously mention in terminal application. I've fired enough of each for testing functionality compatibility with the EDC.
 
124 grain HST from Federal. The bullet expands nicely, and zips out at 1150 ft/sec.

Yup, same here. Not saying they're better than anything else out there but I will say they're sure going to be hard to beat.

I toggle between P9HST1 and P9HST3, depending which was on sale. There's not a huge difference between the two; they're both solid choices.

When it comes to a carbine though such as my CX4 Storm, Sub2000 (or soon to arrive AK-V), I'm using Remington's Golden Saber Bonded. They're not as prone to over-expand at higher-than-intended velocities typical of carbine-length barrels, promoting adequate penetration. HSTs would probably work fine as well, but I feel the bonded GS is better suited for this role.
 
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regular P 124 grain ball ammo. it is what I shoot for practice so - it is what goes in for carry. if it cycles 200 or 300 rounds of a cartridge I'll carry it. I have some hollow point, but it costs more - so, I've never really shot enough of it to consider it tested enough for me to rely on it. I also carry .32 ACP ball ammo sometimes, so - 9mm is way more powerful than .32 ACP, so - figure it is better to go bang and be accurate than fret over magical bullets … I do carry hollow point in revolvers, just no concern about it cycling or not - so, there's a shout out to revolver fans …

The problem with ball ammo, especially in an urban environment, is the possibility of over penetration, and potential for injuries to innocent bystanders beyond your intended target. Yes it can happen with HPs too, but much less likely. Remember, every round fired has a lawyer attached.
 
I started out with Hornady Critical Defence 9mm till my XDE wouldn't chamber them. No matter what I tried they won't go. So I've gone to Remington and now Barnes. I will be consolidating to Barnes. Don'r want any confusion.The problem with the Hornady I would say is the shape of the bullet, too sharp of an angle. They just go straight forward and hit the feed ramp.
 
What ever you choice you should practice with it enough that it becomes second nature to point and shoot and that can take a lot of rounds.
An advantage for hand-loaders is we can build a cheaper round using lower cost solids and fired brass for practice that closely matches the defense round for recoil and reliability. I do this with a 380. Not target shooting here center of mass hits from as many distance points as your range will allow, out to 15 yards.
 
The problem with ball ammo, especially in an urban environment, is the possibility of over penetration, and potential for injuries to innocent bystanders beyond your intended target. Yes it can happen with HPs too, but much less likely. Remember, every round fired has a lawyer attached.
I don't hear a lot about over penetration in real world scenarios. Think most shots fired are misses anyways, and aside from drive by shootings, don't hear about a lot of bystanders getting hit. Guess it isn't something I put a lot of weight too. I just want the rounds to cycle when needed, so - I keep it simple. Never needed them, and hope I never do.
 
I normally run gold dot 124's. They work great, i seen the round first hand what it will do to a chest cavity. I just my life to it. I also have some of that new FBI ammo that i have not loaded in a firearm yet, going to test in the field soon.
 
Hornady's great stuff, but it's pricey.

I'm switching to the S&B 115 grain hollowpoints. It's very similar to the S&B 115 grain FMJs, and you can get it bulk for around 13$ a box.

I shot two of those rounds into a clear gel block and got no expansion on one and very little on the other. The one bullet with little expansion did tumble though, leaving a large wound channel larger than a 45acp HST. The other was an ice pick wound. Not a conclusive test in any way but they don't seem to expand much.
 
My 9mm Carry Ammo doesn't have a "cool" name like "Top Predator" or "Slingblade". It's Federal Tactical Bonded 9mm +P 135 grain. It seems to work in anything from 3" to at least 9" (MP5's).
 
I have an order of Golden Saber being delivered today. So that will be my new carry ammo for a little bit. After I test it in my 9mm carry handguns.
 
I have an order of Golden Saber being delivered today. So that will be my new carry ammo for a little bit. After I test it in my 9mm carry handguns.

Excellent in most civilian applications. Some people make a big deal out of their tendency to lose the jacket. If the core carries to 14" and it looses it's jacket at 12" I don't see this as the huge problem many make it out to be. I've never seen any example of them losing the jacket anytime but late.

My .45 Shield carries the GS +P 185 grain.
 
Anyone ever hear of Guard Dog by Federal and do you have an opinion on them? our training guy recommends them.
 
Target Sports USA has Golden Sabers $16/50 good price
+P
https://www.targetsportsusa.com/rem...s-jacketed-hollow-point-gs9mmdb-p-109178.aspx
non +P
https://www.targetsportsusa.com/rem...ass-jacketed-hollow-point-gs9mmb-p-58766.aspx

A little more than the S+B but showed much better results in testing.

They normally have Gold Dots for a good price but now they are running about $35/50
Winchester PDX1 is a bit more.

My thought is I won't shoot that much of it, buy a couple boxes so I have 2 from the same lot, shoot 1 to make sure it feeds and goes bang, save the other and hope I never have to shoot it.
If I ever have to use it the ammo cost will be the LEAST of my worries.

Rotate out every year or so for fresh ammo
 
What's everyone using for 9mm these days?

Standby for about 1,000 different answers.

The question is, "What criteria is most important for civilian, personal, defensive 9mm ammo?"

No one on a forum can decide this for another individual, but thoughts and recommendations ought to be considered.

Traditional JHP's are getting cheaper because there have been great advances in bullet design that have decreased their desirability. It's not that cup and core JHP's are bad, it's just that sometimes they don't expand, depending on velocity (barrel length, projectile weight), media encountered, plugged HP, etc. Ballistic gel testing has changed the game in some ways in terms of how we think about these. However, well known YT celebrity, PH, has probably sold truckloads of "Remington G&W box 115gr JHP's" with his thoracic cavity simulation test. In some ways he is right that a premium bullet is not required for penetration and adequate expansion. Cost is usually the driver on this one, but last time I checked, Remington L9mm1 wasn't that much less expensive than a deal on some performance ammo.

The next consideration is: If you choose one of the increasingly popular barrier blind ammos, will it attain adequate expansion in your CCW? Some of the same cartridges used by your local LEO work great in their full size duty handguns, but won't expand in your compact or subcompact CCW. Some are purchasing high end ammo that has terminal ballistics similar to FMJ, simply due to this factor. You don't have to gel test yourself, but that is why it is important to at least chrono the ammo out of your CCW and compare with the myriad of gel tests out there to see if it expands at your measured velocity.

Another thought is that ammo manufacturers are increasingly making premium bullets to look pretty for the gel test, even though their performance is similar to their "gets the job done, but not as pretty" counterparts.

Last thought is that 9mm is really a teeter totter of balancing penetration and expansion, especially with the large range of bullet weights. There are a lot of great choices now, with tests to substantiate performance. Part of the reason this is a hotbutton topic is that this isn't just HST vs GS vs GD anymore.
 
Guard Dog ammo gives you .380 ACP terminal ballistics in a 9mm round.



It does produce less recoil so it is a softer-shooting round.
 
The question is, "What criteria is most important for civilian, personal, defensive 9mm ammo?"

No one on a forum can decide this for another individual, but thoughts and recommendations ought to be considered.

Traditional JHP's are getting cheaper because there have been great advances in bullet design that have decreased their desirability. It's not that cup and core JHP's are bad, it's just that sometimes they don't expand, depending on velocity (barrel length, projectile weight), media encountered, plugged HP, etc. Ballistic gel testing has changed the game in some ways in terms of how we think about these. However, well known YT celebrity, PH, has probably sold truckloads of "Remington G&W box 115gr JHP's" with his thoracic cavity simulation test. In some ways he is right that a premium bullet is not required for penetration and adequate expansion. Cost is usually the driver on this one, but last time I checked, Remington L9mm1 wasn't that much less expensive than a deal on some performance ammo.

The next consideration is: If you choose one of the increasingly popular barrier blind ammos, will it attain adequate expansion in your CCW? Some of the same cartridges used by your local LEO work great in their full size duty handguns, but won't expand in your compact or subcompact CCW. Some are purchasing high end ammo that has terminal ballistics similar to FMJ, simply due to this factor. You don't have to gel test yourself, but that is why it is important to at least chrono the ammo out of your CCW and compare with the myriad of gel tests out there to see if it expands at your measured velocity.

Another thought is that ammo manufacturers are increasingly making premium bullets to look pretty for the gel test, even though their performance is similar to their "gets the job done, but not as pretty" counterparts.

Last thought is that 9mm is really a teeter totter of balancing penetration and expansion, especially with the large range of bullet weights. There are a lot of great choices now, with tests to substantiate performance. Part of the reason this is a hotbutton topic is that this isn't just HST vs GS vs GD anymore.

1. Cost (If you can't afford enough to do adequate testing it's a non-starter).
2. Reliability - Feed and Function
3. Accuracy (Hits reasonably close to point of aim at 7 yards).
4. Penetration
5. Expansion

The problem is to many people put 4 and 5 first then buy something that costs them a $1.50 a round then can't or won't do adequate testing.

If budget is an issue buy something being discontinued like Golden Saber Branded (Now Ultimate Defense), 6 month old police ammo when they rotate it out, or a budget choice that seems to work fairly well like Remington Green/White Box 115 JHP, Winchester White Box Personal Protection 115 JHP or Federal 9BP 115 JHP.

Some of them will tend to clog on 4LD Test but do just fine when fired 2LD or 4 Layers of T-Shirt. The 4LD test was devised as a worse case test but rarely will to you need to deal with 4 Layers of Industrial Weight Denim. Of course if the ammo will expand after that you almost assured it will work in the intended application.

I find some of the cheaper ammo does just fine when fired through hog hair and hide with a two layers of tshirt over the top and penetrate adequately and with reliable expansion in wild hogs. I would certainly choose it over fmj if the cost of premium ammo is an issue
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