Ideal No 5 (black) powder measure seized

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orpington

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I cannot get the handle that releases the powder to release. I last used it about 6 months to a year ago, stored in a basement, but dry. It is stuck, if looking at it, at about 1 or 2 o'clock, and, if I recall correctly, you pull it forward and the powder comes out down the brass tube. Inert black powder shouldn't be corrosive, and, in it were a few grains (20 to 40) of black powder, meaning individual granules, not a measure of 20 to 40 grains. It is also brass within an iron housing, so I don't even know how or why this would seize. I now have sprayed Kroil in it, and after half an hour, no further movement. Am I recalling something different than I recall, as to movement of the handle?

Also, while I'm at it, the adjustment gauge, which is brass, contains numbers on it. What do they mean, as, for example, one sets it to "20" it isn't even close that 20 grains of powder are released?

What vintage are these? The last patent date is 1899 on it, and it looks old, but that doesn't really mean anything. For all I know, these could still be manufactured today.
 
IIRC there are set screws on the outside of the adjustment pieces under the handle. I think you can remove those screws and pull the internal measures out of the side and check what's binding. I hope this helps but like I said, I think it's set up similar the the #55, it's been a very long time since I had a #5.
 
Well., one would think this would easily disassemble.

To the left is a screw with an oversized washer which covers the internal mechanism, shiny steel and brass. The other side, one removes the brass linear measuring "ruler" revealing a threaded round piece that is shaved on one side to fit under the ruler device. That threads into the brass rectangular piece that the "ruler" slides on. Disassembly frees up nothing. The handle has a small piece which appeared to be an Allen set screw but is not and may not even be a set screw at all.
 
Sorry that won't work. Hopefully someone who knows that measure comes along to help.

You might try finding the instructions online which might contain disassembly information. If all else fails call Lyman, they might help.
 
There are no springs or small parts to worry about, so remove all the screws and work everything loose. There isn't anything you will easily break so be strong....

Disregard the numbers, the werefor drams of black powder. Only use them for reference to set your WEIGHED smokeless powder.
 
Okay disassembled to the point last and did remove handle after realizing that what I thought was a set screw is really likely part of a hammer. It appears that the brass bar is assembled to a brass sleeve around a steel core, and this brass sleeve no longer will rotate around the steel core, dispensing powder in the process. I sprayed Kroil at this junction and will let it sit overnight. Not quite sure what got in there as last time I used it there were no problems.

Maybe after 100 years it's time for some lubrication.

I assume the part of the handle you grab on would have been originally wooden? Mine, as obtained, has a 7 mm round used as the grip part of the handle. I guess other than the nail part and the round as a handle, it otherwise isn't half bad!

I bought it about 5 years ago and paid $10 or $20 for it I think. Something old and neat that I can actually use.
 
Somewhere in my eclectic files, I have an electronic copy of the manual for this, but I don't think it has a part breakdown. It explains the BR number settings too. Send me your email and I'll look it up and send.
 
I have a 55 and use it for dumping 3F into 45C cases I have to empty the hopper disassemble after each use and clean, then wipe the brass rotor and cast inner chamber with Ballistol. If I don’t it will freeze up just like yours.
 
Both measures are basically the same but the 5 has a sparkless hopper and longer drop tube for use with black powder. I would hesitate using a 55 with black powder due to a possible spark being produced. When I purchased mine second hand it was also seized. I took a brass rod and used it as a punch to push the cylinder out of the body by tapping on it lightly after applying PB Blaster and sitting overnight. After I cleaned everything up with steel wool I gave it several coats of Johnsons paste wax before reassembling. It since then has worked flawlessly and when adjusted correctly by trial and error is my most accurate measure for bulky powders. Note: I do not use it for black powder though. I use custom scoops made out of empty brass for that.
 
Okay so I should attempt to knock the steel and brass components out of the hopper mechanism which contains them?

Which might be what I need to do to dry all components prior to future usage.

Kroil overnight did free up the handle and movement is somewhat choppy. Which is better than being seized but not ideal. IIRC, prior actions a year ago yielded movement with minor force but it was not smooth.

Now, what one has is the potential for a gummy mix of powder is added. I initially assumed seizing was from lack of use, but now that I understand how this measure works, it's amazing it works at all and did not seize previously. Using the mechanism properly is going to emulsify some grains of powder and, IIRC, you could hear some crunching when the handle engaged the cylinder to rotate.

Amazing how complex this is and the tolerances involved for 19th Century technology!

PWC: The file you have did not arrive in my inbox yet. Did you attempt to send it yet?
 
Both measures are basically the same but the 5 has a sparkless hopper and longer drop tube for use with black powder. I would hesitate using a 55 with black powder due to a possible spark being produced. When I purchased mine second hand it was also seized. I took a brass rod and used it as a punch to push the cylinder out of the body by tapping on it lightly after applying PB Blaster and sitting overnight. After I cleaned everything up with steel wool I gave it several coats of Johnsons paste wax before reassembling. It since then has worked flawlessly and when adjusted correctly by trial and error is my most accurate measure for bulky powders. Note: I do not use it for black powder though. I use custom scoops made out of empty brass for that.

What is the spark less hopper made from. I assume your referring to the possibility of a static discharge.
 
While we are at it, What purpose does the screw at the end of the long brass rectangular bar serve? It has to be screwed in just right so that the shaved side faces up to allow for clearance of the sliding bar with gradations.

It doesn't seem to serve any purpose whatsoever but it must serve some purpose.
 
20191204_124319.jpg 20191204_121740.jpg 20191204_121740.jpg 20191204_121751.jpg 20191204_121813.jpg The three pieces of my slide assy. In the fourth image if you look carefully you can see the notch in the threaded screw adjustment in the notch. You might have to magnify it first. It is in line with the pin on the slide. The pin on the top brass slide needs to go into the groove so that screwing the small screw moves the brass numbered slide. 20191204_121542.jpg

ETA: Got picture wrong so here it is all apart at the top. The first post is info from my grandfathers Ideal manual from 1951.
Wow I messed up uploading.
 
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I also have an ancient Ideal No. 5. I used to use it from time to time. I had problems with H110/WW296 getting under the drum and binding. It never totally stopped it but made use difficult. I suspect that a couple for grains of blackpowder got in there and swelled by moisture during storage.

I'd clean it and keep using it if it works.

What is the spark less hopper made from. I assume your referring to the possibility of a static discharge.

The Ideal No. 5 is made from cast iron and brass. No sparks from either of those materials.
 
When throwing a charge, always use the largest "hole" possible, and the smallest possible for vernier adjustments. When using stick powders, this exposes the largest and strongest cutting edge to the sticks.
 
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