Virginia's next move

Am I reading [18.2-308.8.Importation,sale,possession,etc.,of assault firearms prohibited].this passage wrong? It seems to say we may keep the magazine but won't have anything to put them in legally.

Jethro1200 said:

This VA folk believes it will send a message. The 2A Sanctuary is a good, fairly easy first step since the County Supervisors in most rural counties feel as we do.

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The "2nd Amendment sanctuary county" movement is symbolic. The main effect will be to deepen the rural-urban divide in Virginia. This is not good because, if it comes to that, the urban areas will outvote the rural ones every time. You have to look at where most of the people are. By hardening the divide, it makes the urban representatives even more likely to vote against you.

AlexanderA said:

The "2nd Amendment sanctuary county" movement is symbolic. The main effect will be to deepen the rural-urban divide in Virginia. This is not good because, if it comes to that, the urban areas will outvote the rural ones every time. You have to look at where most of the people are. By hardening the divide, it makes the urban representatives even more likely to vote against you.

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I disagree with your assessment of the situation. The urban areas have already discounted the deplorable rural dwellers as unimportant. I doubt that us rednecks have much to say that will make things any worse.
That being said, if the 2A Sanctuary movement is not optimal what do you suggest? Please don't suggest standing by while both the Constitution of the U.S. and the State of Virginia is being trampled. I agree ahead of time that haste unmitigated by planning will be counter productive but time is very short.

Jethro1200 said:

Am I reading [18.2-308.8.Importation,sale,possession,etc.,of assault firearms prohibited].this passage wrong? It seems to say we may keep the magazine but won't have anything to put them in legally.

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You are partially correct. But remember, most handguns (unless they have threaded barrels, etc.) are not affected by the bill. Therefore, you can keep using your 15- or 17-round magazines with your Glock, Beretta, Sig-Sauer, etc.

You can keep using your 15- or 30-round magazines with your M1 Carbine (provided it doesn't have a bayonet lug).

And, anyone with a registered full automatic can continue to use their magazines, belts, etc. They're not proposing to amend the Virginia Uniform Machine Gun Act. Therefore, your registered full auto M16 would continue to be legal, whereas your semi AR15 would not be.*

*ETA: It's not clear at this point whether the selective fire feature of the M16 would bring it under the "semiautomatic" rubric of the proposed bill. We may end up having to remove the semiautomatic feature, the way they do in Connecticut.

AlexanderA said:

You are partially correct. But remember, most handguns (unless they have threaded barrels, etc.) are not affected by the bill. Therefore, you can keep using your 15- or 17-round magazines with your Glock, Beretta, Sig-Sauer, etc.

You can keep using your 15- or 30-round magazines with your M1 Carbine (provided it doesn't have a bayonet lug).

And, anyone with a registered full automatic can continue to use their magazines, belts, etc. They're not proposing to amend the Virginia Uniform Machine Gun Act. Therefore, your registered full auto M16 would continue to be legal, whereas your semi AR15 would not be.

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I wonder about the ever present SKS with a five round internal magazine, and bayonet mount? This same passage seems to ban a bolt action rifle with a detachable magazine and a muzzle brake, which describes most dedicated long range rifles.

Jethro1200 said:

I wonder about the ever present SKS with a five round internal magazine, and bayonet mount? This same passage seems to ban a bolt action rifle with a detachable magazine and a muzzle brake, which describes most dedicated long range rifles.

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The first requirement under the bill is that the gun is semiautomatic. That means that a bolt action is not covered by the ban, regardless of features.

Once you determine that the gun is semiautomatic, then you go to the second requirement, which is (a) an internal magazine greater than 10 rounds, or (b) a removable magazine. The other "features" are relevant only for semiautomatics with removable magazines.

The SKS would not be covered, nor would the M1 Garand, nor the M1 Carbine (unless it has a bayonet lug or folding stock). Unfortunately, the M1A would be covered, because of the threaded barrel / flash hider. (I suppose an M1A with a non-threaded barrel would be OK.)

It has to be decided ahead of time what the VCDL's purpose on Lobby Day is to be. Is it to kill these bills entirely, or is it to mitigate them? If the purpose is to kill the bills entirely, I'm afraid we may be spinning our wheels, because the antis have the votes and they are determined to push forward. Mitigation is another matter. The biggie there is grandfathering existing ownership. All that has to be done there is removing the words "possession" and "transport" from the bill. (Some of the newly elected Democrats stated, pre-election, that they were for an AWB but without confiscation. Sounds like they would be amenable to grandfathering.)

Another mitigation would be adding a "safe harbor" list of guns that would not be affected. (Even Sen. Feinstein's perennial federal AWB bill has such a list.) Also, exactly what is meant by "semiautomatic" needs to be defined.

The new legislature convenes Jan. 8th. I expect things to move very quickly thereafter, and Jan. 20th (the scheduled VCDL Lobby Day) may be too late to do much good.

I defiantly agree that January 20 is too late. However the session starts January 8 and I am told by reliable sources that the beginning of a session, especially one that has a lot of first attendees is chaos. Do you have any suggestions as to dates? I am probably going to hear back from more astute political types that I have asked about the most likely day to attend. For what is worth I will post the answer to my question if it looks usable. Do you believe that we will be able to gather a good size group on short notice? For my part I have a very open schedule for this project. I am sure that your opinion will be useful in the discussion. Another thing to consider is the proposal to ban weapons from Capitol Square. I am not sure when such a ban might take effect or what area that it might cover but there are two things I would not enjoy doing, going unarmed in Richmond and leaving a firearm in a car in Richmond. Given time almost any security I might employ to safeguard a weapon in my car will almost certainly be defeated and I am not much at gambling on my weapon being used against innocents. That seems to be something the anti gun politicians don't take into account when they write these laws. My firearm is certainly safer from misuse when I have control over it.

I don't think the legislators would react well to what they perceive as "intimidation." Therefore, don't go armed.

Individual gun owners should be meeting with their legislators, well before the opening of the session. This is especially important with the newly-elected legislators, even if they're antigun. Let them know that you live in their district, and that you would be directly, and negatively, affected by whatever they pass.

As I said earlier, talk about ways the legislation can be mitigated and improved. Unlike in previous years, this thing is not going to be killed outright. Explain how you would be forced to leave the state, over the gun issue.

AlexanderA said:

I don't think the legislators would react well to what they perceive as "intimidation." Therefore, don't go armed.

Individual gun owners should be meeting with their legislators, well before the opening of the session. This is especially important with the newly-elected legislators, even if they're antigun. Let them know that you live in their district, and that you would be directly, and negatively, affected by whatever they pass.

As I said earlier, talk about ways the legislation can be mitigated and improved. Unlike in previous years, this thing is not going to be killed outright. Explain how you would be forced to leave the state, over the gun issue.

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I can see that we differ on some items. I have gone armed to every General Assembly session at least once for over ten years. The only people that ever knew it were the very professional Capitol Police. Many of the various legislators are armed as well.
I have been in close contact with my Legislators and often see them in town, just like everyone else in my rural community. I am unlikely to leave the state since my family has lived on this farm for four generations, besides that rednecks don't run from invaders and it is generally unadvised to put us in a corner.

badkarmamib said:

Carry is already outlawed in the General Assembly building, so it would definitely be a good idea to leave any "dangerous weapons" at home.

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Under current Virginia law, no, it is NOT outlawed if you have a Concealed Handgun Permit (CHP). However, as another post in this thread pointed out, changing tht law is on the first day agenda of the anti-gun crowd. When it gets passed by both Delegates adn Senate, and then signed by Governor, all need to pay attention to the date the change becomes effective, immediately, or a future specified date.

VCDL Lobby Day attendees have been entering the Capitol building armed with no problem for several years. A few Dem members have, however, posted their office a no gun zones.

@Craig_VA Thanks for the clarification. I spent 2 days on the GA website, trying to figure out what was and wasn't allowed, and could only find a prohibition on "dangerous weapons".

I am repeating below my post in another thread that Moderator GEM closed to push all VA discussino into this one.
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The recent election in Virginia set the stage for significant gun control legislation to happen there in January. The governor long ago declared support for Universal Background Check, red flag laws, one gun a month limit, banning selected types of guns, and other intrusions on our rights. In January he will get a State Senate and House of Delegates both with Democrat (and presumably anti-gun) majorities.

Expecting all of the governor's proposed gun control bills to pass and be signed this Spring, the VCDL is leading a push to get s many countries in Virginia to declare themselves to be Second Amendment Sanctuaries. See the current report on the VCDL home page. Scroll down that page for more information on specific proposed laws.

I realize that the legal basis for a 2A Sanctuary is murky. One of the reasons for this push is to send the message to the state legislature that there is strong support for gun rights across the state, not withstanding the Democratic wins this year.

If you are in Virginia, please join VCDL, and join them in Richmond in January for Lobby Day. Go to your own county board meetings to support the 2A Sanctuary proposals.
You do not need to be a Virginia resident to join as a member or support the organization with donations.
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Yes, this is somewhat a symbolic effort. The purpose is to signal the Delegates and Senators representing those counties that their constituencies are not accepting of heavy gun control. We hope they are induced to vote against the many pending anti-gun measures. What it does to the faint of heart in Northern Virginia and arond Richmond is inconsequential; the goal is to reduce Democratic votes for the bills in questoin.

There is a lesson here. Gunowners can become organized, develop a plan opposing gun control, and put boots on the ground well prior to the election or they can whine, rage and do feel good stuff after anti-gunners win the election.

Jethro1200 said:

Am I reading [18.2-308.8.Importation,sale,possession,etc.,of assault firearms prohibited].this passage wrong? It seems to say we may keep the magazine but won't have anything to put them in legally.

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You read it correct.

You can keep the 11+ mags (centerfire and rimfire).

Get your 11+ .22 rimfire mags now.
You can keep .22's and you can put 11+ mags in them.

W.E.G. said:

You can keep the 11+ mags (centerfire and rimfire).

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The way the bill is worded, you can keep the magazines you have (or can obtain between now and July 1st), but you can't get any more. Sales, transfers, and imports would be prohibited.

You could remove magazines from the state, but if you did so, you couldn't bring them back in again.

What the antis are doing is declaring a war of attrition against magazines.

There was a posting on Reddit today that indicates that Sen. Saslaw is about to drop the words "possession" and "transport" from the AWB bill (i.e., allow grandfathering):

https://www.reddit.com/r/VAGuns/comments/e63dw4/heard_back_from_my_senator_today_about_sb16_dave/

It would still have sales, purchases, transfers, and imports of AWs as felonies.

No indication that registration of grandfathered AWs is on the table.

Some voices are being raised in the gun community, saying that passage of the most draconian versions of these bills would be a good thing, since it would make the whole package more likely to be struck down by the courts. Don't count on it! Something similar was said before the Hughes Amendment (as part of FOPA) was signed by Reagan, and look where we are now. Once a law is on the books, it's very hard to get it off.

Well, it will be nice to not be a FELON on July 1.

Its still a big steaming pile. An politician that supports it in any stripe needs to be removed.

ANY law passed by these corrupt racketeers needs to be repealed.

Treble damages should be ordered against any of the conspirators.

W.E.G. said:

An politician that supports it in any stripe needs to be removed.

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I just got a flyer in the mail from my congressman, Gerry Connolly, touting his support for the most extreme of these antigun measures. At first I thought the flyer was a parody, cooked up by some prankster working against him. But then I realized that antigun extremism is actually a selling point for him in this district.

The fault is not in the politicians, but in the public that elects them. The politicians just respond to what they think is popular. (Some actually brag that they have an "F" rating from the NRA. That tells you a lot about how public perceptions have changed from 20 or even 10 years ago.)

AlexanderA said:

But then I realized that antigun extremism is actually a selling point for him in this district.

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And the best thing you can do is keep writing/emailing/calling him, to remind him that not EVERYONE in his district is of the same opinion. It is obviously time for us to start being the squeaky wheel, and it IS working.

AlexanderA said:

Some voices are being raised in the gun community, saying that passage of the most draconian versions of these bills would be a good thing, since it would make the whole package more likely to be struck down by the courts. Don't count on it! Something similar was said before the Hughes Amendment (as part of FOPA) was signed by Reagan, and look where we are now. Once a law is on the books, it's very hard to get it off.

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Virginia already has enough Neville Chamberlains, that's how it got to this point; it doesn't need any more.