Why Can't I Find a 9mm I Shoot Well

94045 said:

I agree. But why only with 9mm. Never with .40 or .45. You could say I'm getting bored but I could shoot an M&P .22 or .380 EZ all day without it happening.

I believe I inherently don't like the sharpness of the 9mm impulse and it requires greater concentration to avoid anticipating the shot. What I'm trying to find is an exercise to fix it.
I'm uncomfortable with the instructor's recommendation of "just shoot more 9mm". I'm afraid it will be contagious and spread to other calibers.

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If you're determined to keep at it, try this - shoot less rounds more often. In other words, don't shoot till the point of failure. Shoot 5 good shots, or whatever the number is, and stop. Rinse and repeat. Do this till the front of your brain gets out of the way. Be patient.

Instead of searching for different guns, try switching ammo to a much heavier bullet. A box of ammo costs less than a whole new gun or barrel. Several companies load 158 grain bullets and they completely change the feel of recoil. You only need one box of ammo to determine if that is the fix you're searching for.

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2018/8/6/heavy-9mm-luger-bullets-everything-you-need-to-know/

Agree the issue is the grey thing between your eyes.

Larger 9mm is a good idea, also try some 147 grain loads, they are the most ".45" recoiling of the 9mm, also the softest recoil IMO.

It's odd you think the 9mm is snappy if you shoot a .40, .45 I get, but shooting the .40 well makes that experience odd to me. Of course we all react to recoil differently, I myself find .45 much easier to shoot fast over .40 or .357 Sig and many don't.

Just sounds to me like you are in your own head, losing concentration and possibly getting yourself tired out on those 10% (maybe because of worrying about throwing the shot).

I definitely think reducing string size is a good idea to start, I generally only load 5 in a mag when not doing drills or specific long string shooting. Target shooting I find I tend to lose focus after 5 or so and groups open, so I load a bunch of mags with only 5 and take the time to reload to reset my brain.

That's helped me anyway.

Not to beat the dead horse, but I've mentioned training as compared to self-diagnosis and random gun suggestions. Here's a good article by an expert I know and is well respected.

https://tacticalprofessor.wordpress.com/2014/11/09/what-is-the-value-of-training/

Here's a summary:

Firearms instructors are periodically asked the question “Why should I take training?” The answer often comes in the form of a list of skills that are taught or the reasoning behind using a certain technique. However, these do not address the underlying fundamental reasons for taking firearms training at all.

1. You don’t know what you don’t know.
2. Much of what you know is wrong.
3. It’s good to have some of the answers to the test before taking it.

These issues relate to both technical competency with using a firearm (gun safety and marksmanship) and the ability to use the firearm correctly in a personal protection situation (legal and tactical).

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Do you find the recoil of the 9mm to be more painful than the other calibers? Felt recoil can be complex. There is the “push” element of recoil. But another is the vibration that is transmitted through the gun. Your hand might be more sensitive to the type of vibration set up by 9mm.
I experienced this with a Bersa Thunder 380. It didn’t have much recoil, but I found it had an uncomfortable sting.

Zendude said:

Do you find the recoil of the 9mm to be more painful than the other calibers? Felt recoil can be complex. There is the “push” element of recoil. But another is the vibration that is transmitted through the gun. Your hand might be more sensitive to the type of vibration set up by 9mm.
I experienced this with a Bersa Thunder 380. It didn’t have much recoil, but I found it had an uncomfortable sting.

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The Bersas are blowback guns and they have a snappier recoil than lock breech guns of the same caliber.

94045 said:

I will see what I can borrow to give it a try in some larger 9mm.

Borrow M&P Full-Size or G17

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If possible, make sure the M&P is 2.0 model. Much better trigger and more accurate.

Glock 17, any generation.

And also consider trying Sig P320.

FWIW, here's a listing of accuracy from these pistols - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...s-accurate-to-you.853942/page-2#post-11186517

Lipsey's Vickers Tactical Glock 17 (25 yards) 1.00" to 1.80" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/3/23/tested-lipsey-s-vickers-tactical-glock-17/

Sig P320 X-Five/VTAC (25 yards) 1.14" to 1.97" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/8/10/tested-sig-sauer-p320-x-series-pistols/

S&W M&P9 M2.0 Compact (25 yards) 1.22" to 3.64" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/11/30/tested-smith-wesson-mp9-m20-compact-pistol/

What ammo were you using? Have you tried heavy bullets - 147+ grains?

94045 said:

Okay haven't got my M&P 9mm barrel yet but I think I'm getting a handle on it.

Sig P365 Flush Mag at 7 yards. 49 out of 50 Shots in 3". I pulled one shot 2.75" from the center of the group. I don't think it was an issue caused by the 9mm though, I just lost concentration on that shot. And no this wasn't shot at a bullseye pace.

Yes, I know that 7 yards doesn't say anything about accuracy but I can tell if I really throw the shot like that. New it before I saw the bullet hole.

After shooting enough 5 shot strings it finally just clicked. The 9mm stopped feeling "sharp" and I just stopped noticing it. The back of the flush baseplate on the P365 even stopped aggravating the center of my palm.

I guess I just had to get used to a jab instead of a thump. Finally getting my grip really dialed in on the P365. Had lots of issues with riding the slide and the slide lock with both my strong and support hand early on.

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Excellent! You know you're in the groove when you can call your shots.

Best way I've taught people to stop flinching is to load their gun for them but put in several empties so they never know if it will fire. It definitely gets their attention to their errors. Usually by the time we get through a box they stop being concerned. It forces them to accept letting the gun do what it's going to do. It's going to whether there's a flinch or not. Anticipation is something all of us have to stay in practice to forget.

94045 said:

Why can't I find a 9mm Carry Gun I shoot well. I am not a particularly good shot but this is getting ridiculous.

Shield .45 ACP
6 Round Flush + 7 Extended + 7 Extended = 20 Shots
1 Second Cadence at 7 yards = Usually around 180 Score (1.0" 10-Ring and 3" 8-Ring)

Kimber CDP 1911 .45 ACP with Alum Officers Frame and 4" Barrel - Usually upper 180's.

M&P 2.0 Compact 4" .40 S&W - Usually lower 180's (20 round total with one mag change).

Why cant I find a 9mm that I can shoot that well. They all seem "sharp" to me even with 115's which I think makes me pull about 10% of my shots. I can't seem to break the habit of anticipating recoil with a 9mm. Why do the .40 and .45 not bother me?

PS I know it makes no sense but I can't seem to fix it.

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GR

94045 said:

The problem was I was pulling shots like 10" low left but was only doing it 1 round in 10 on averarge

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94045 said:

My problem is the normal fixes are not working.

1. Only occurs with one caliber.
2. It only occurs with a rough minimum of 1 out of 10 rounds (sometimes I can make it as many as 30).

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Have you had someone else shoot the same pistol to see if they experience the same problem? I already suggested this on post #37

LiveLife said:

Have someone else shoot the same pistols to see if they have the same problem you are experiencing.

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94045 said:

I've only talked to 4 instructors so far.

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So what did they tell you?

94045 said:

I'm not shooting anymore 9mm until I find someone that actually wants to make a serious attempt

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Are you having this problem with one pistol or all 9mm pistols?

94045 said:

It's obvious anticipation (moves the round close to 10")

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10" deviation from POA is significant. I am curious if other shooters do the same with the same pistol.

OK.

So no more 9mm problem?

94045 said:

Why can't I find a 9mm Carry Gun I shoot well. I am not a particularly good shot but this is getting ridiculous.

Shield .45 ACP
6 Round Flush + 7 Extended + 7 Extended = 20 Shots
1 Second Cadence at 7 yards = Usually around 180 Score (1.0" 10-Ring and 3" 8-Ring)

Kimber CDP 1911 .45 ACP with Alum Officers Frame and 4" Barrel - Usually upper 180's.

M&P 2.0 Compact 4" .40 S&W - Usually lower 180's (20 round total with one mag change).

Why cant I find a 9mm that I can shoot that well. They all seem "sharp" to me even with 115's which I think makes me pull about 10% of my shots. I can't seem to break the habit of anticipating recoil with a 9mm. Why do the .40 and .45 not bother me?

PS I know it makes no sense but I can't seem to fix it.

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Ok... Try this method:
1. Buy a CZ 75 compact ( it's a little heavy)..or it's lighter version...CZ PO1.

2. Buy 2,000 rounds.

3. Shoot 200 rounds per week for 10 consequtive weeks.

4. As you shoot each round, blink your eyes a milli second prior to the "bang". Time it so that your eyelids are opening at the moment of muzzle flash. (Hence, it will be impossible to blink at the muzzle blast.) Mentally welcome the sound of the "bang" and the flash of the round being fired. That's one method of overcoming the flinch.

Obviously...this is only to be done in a square static range.. and not to be considered as a fighting technique. It's simply a training drill to overcome the flinch.

kidneyboy said:

While I completely disagree with the idea shooting huge recoiling handguns to deal with a flinch, this highlighted line is a great piece of advice. With the huge number of choices in handguns and ammo we have available there isn't a lot of reasons to shoot one that requires a lot of work to shoot accurately.

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OTOH, after dealing with my DE44, and getting it to shoot well, most other pistols are a breeze, by comparison.

I would be sure to at least borrow somebody else's FNX9, Ruger P89, and a 9mm Sig.There are so many great 9s out there, you have to find one you are comfortable with.

If I read the OP's first post right, 20 rounds averaging 2", 7 yards, in ~20 seconds is shooting very well.
There's nothing to see here. Time to move on.
If someone wants to tighten the group even further, slow down for awhile; keep practicing; pick-up one's speed later &/or increase the distance.
Choose one handgun and don't be looking for a hardware "cure" right now.

I mean striving to be better is a good goal, but it sounds as if the 180 point score on a 3" diameter over 20 rounds at a fast pace is already a good score for that drill. Look at it another way; that's 18 rounds all in 1", with two flyers.

Sounds good, glad you got it resolved!