Glock anomaly.

whughett · Dec 7, 2019

Wednesday while trying some new 9MM in my sons 17, the pistol fired the first round, ejected and chambered the second but didn’t go all the way into battery. Thinking a damaged case mouth I first tried to nudge the slide into battery and when I could not, tried to rack it manually, nope, nor could I dismount the slide. Could not budge it. Fired the last 49 rounds thru a Walther PPS with no problems.

At home finally got the slide on the Glock back and ejected the round. No apparent damage.
Loaded 5 factory rounds in the magazine, pointed the gun in a safe direction and manually operated the slide and released it, round chambered and I manually ejected it, twice, the third didn’t go into battery, but I was able to push it in. Pulled the slide back, would move a fraction and hang up.
Now I’ve got a loaded round in the chamber and I can’t eject it. I’m home in my basement and I’m reluctant to fire it in the house.
Twenty mile drive back to the club where I fire the gun, load and fire five more rounds. No problem. ***.

Now I can dismount the slide. Everything looked normal, put the slide back on and the gun seems to operate normal. I’m almost reluctant to try it again at Monday’s range session. Don’t like Glocks, don’t own one but my son likes it and it’s his favorite.

TheProf · Dec 7, 2019

What generation was this? Rumor has it that some of the earlier gen 5 may have a short throats. Combined with ammo that is out of spec...having longer overall length...it may create issues.

Supposedly, Glock quietly fixed the issue and current Gen 5s are fine.

I have the earlier gen 5. There are commercial ammo that fails the "plunk test"...due to the shorter throat. But the gun works just fine...even on the ammo that failed this test.

If I didn't read in the internet, I wouldn't know that there was even an issue. Over 2000 rounds on Glock 19 gen 5...no issues. 100 percent reliable with various ammo.

It was probably an out of spec ammo.

Sovblocgunfan · Dec 7, 2019

That’s almost certainly an ammo problem. You said it was “new 9mm”. New to you? If so, I’d finish the quantity and never buy it again.

Go to the range monday with a different brand of ammo. If it hangs up with that, then you might have a gun problem.

tarosean · Dec 7, 2019

Glocks are not immune to failures.

New gun? old gun? maintenance performed? lubed? Etc etc etc.

fxvr5 · Dec 7, 2019

Tell us about the ammo. Are these factory or handloads? If factory, what brand, bullet, etc. If handloads, what bullet, overall length, etc.

whughett · Dec 7, 2019

1) Hand loads. Loaded to spec, OAL 1.090 115 grain. Berry’s Plated 4.4 grains Tightgroup, Winchester brass once fired, Lyman’s 49th Manual. Ist rung on ladder loads. Functioned fine in a PPS2.
How would bad Ammo lock up a slide where it would move rearward but not completely retract.
2) Ist Gen Model 17.
3) old gun, as indicated by gen, but rarely fired, until recently.
4) Son had shot perhaps 300 or more Blazer 115 ball over the last three weeks. One magazine was experiencing an occasional stovepipe with that Ammo. I removed slide cleaned and oiled just prior to the problem. Could I have placed the spring and rod in the wrong notch on barrel assembly and it would function erratic due to that. After second failures I dismounted the slide and the rod was in the lowest notch on the barrel lump.

Pat Riot · Dec 7, 2019

I would bet it’s the ammo. Had a similar problem with some “factory reloads” at a range that sells their own reloaded ammo. 2 rounds out of 10 failed to feed on my G45 Gen 5 (coincidence?) so I returned the ammo.
I have nearly 700 rounds through that gun with various loads / brands of ammo with no issues.

fxvr5 · Dec 7, 2019

whughett said:
1) Hand loads. Loaded to spec, OAL 1.090 115 grain. Berry’s Plated 4.4 grains Tightgroup, Winchester brass once fired, Lyman’s 49th Manual. Ist rung on ladder loads. Functioned fine in a PPS2.
How would bad Ammo lock up a slide where it would move rearward but not completely retract.
2) Ist Gen Model 17.
3) old gun, as indicated by gen, but rarely fired, until recently.
4) Son had shot perhaps 300 or more Blazer 115 ball over the last three weeks. One magazine was experiencing an occasional stovepipe with that Ammo. I removed slide cleaned and oiled just prior to the problem. Could I have placed the spring and rod in the wrong notch on barrel assembly and it would function erratic due to that. After second failures I dismounted the slide and the rod was in the lowest notch on the barrel lump.

Which Berry 115 grain bullet? They make 4 of them.

If the bullet is seated out too far, it can jam into the riflings when chambered. This can prevent the slide from racking because the bullet is stuck in the bore.

The OAL listed in load data might not fit in all chambers since not all chambers are cut to the same specifications. One must determine the proper OAL to fit in a specific gun/barrel. The link below describes the plunk test to assess the exact cause why a round doesn't fit the chamber.

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/reloading-tips-the-plunk-test/99389

Sovblocgunfan · Dec 7, 2019

whughett said:
Loaded 5 factory rounds in the magazine, pointed the gun in a safe direction and manually operated the slide and released it, round chambered and I manually ejected it, twice, the third didn’t go into battery, but I was able to push it in. Pulled the slide back, would move a fraction and hang up.
Now I’ve got a loaded round in the chamber and I can’t eject it. I’m home in my basement and I’m reluctant to fire it in the house.
Twenty mile drive back to the club where I fire the gun, load and fire five more rounds.

whughett said:
1) Hand loads. Loaded to spec, OAL 1.090 115 grain. Berry’s Plated 4.4 grains Tightgroup, Winchester brass once fired, Lyman’s 49th Manual. Ist rung on ladder loads. Functioned fine in a PPS2.
How would bad Ammo lock up a slide where it would move rearward but not completely retract.

Ah. Here is new information that was not available before. You’re now advising the same failure using your handloads as well as factory ammunition. You’re also describing a magazine malfunction in addition to the slide lockup thing.

How many different magazines have you tried?

Trey Veston · Dec 7, 2019

I loaded some ammo to spec for my new Gen 5 and it was having the same issue due to the shorter throat. I called Glock and they confirmed that certain bullet profiles at standard lengths don't work in the Gen 5 and offered to have me send it back for work. But, the dang thing is so accurate, I didn't want to chance them messing that up so it will feed anything.

Sounds like it's not a Gen 5 Glock, though. I learned early in my reloading hobby to plunk test everything first, which sounds like you didn't do, even after the obvious issues cropped up.

AK103K · Dec 7, 2019

I agree with the ammo most likely being the problem. If its factory, it would be interesting to hear whos it was. If its reloads, check your dies and/or watch how you seat the bullets.

I shoot (and reload) around 25K of 9mm each year, and most of that is out of Glocks, and on occasion, Ive come across the very same thing you are describing, and its always been the ammo that was the issue.

For me, it was my dies, and replacing them cleared up the problem.

The culprit was always a slight, but noticeable bulge in the cases, at the bullet. Best as I can tell, it was either because the bullet was cocked a little when seated, or the case wasnt centered in the die when it was expanded.It wasnt something that happened very often, but it began to happen more and more, and I knew something was up.

Once I switched the RCBS dies for a set of the new Hornady dies, the problem went away.

Nothing wrong with RCBS dies either. The set I replaced was used constantly and hard, for about 35 years.

Ive just come to like the new Hornady dies better, and have been replacing the others I have with them. I especially like their seating dies, as they have a guide that aligns the bullet properly as it seats.

whughett · Dec 7, 2019

fxvr5. Not a newbie to handloading, 40 years and tens of thousands of rounds on various presses. However I’m no expert, don’t wildcat or push the envelope but can and do make occasional errors. The Berry bullet is a 115 round nose and seated to an OAL of 1.090, that’s shorter than Blazers 115 FMJ at 1.156. It’s visible shorter.

Sovblocgunfan. My bad. Muddy the water mentioning a separate incident not related to the thread. The stove pipe happened twice in 300 or so rounds involving one of two magazines. That magazine is marked and son can decide if he wants to toss it and replace.
The incident I’m trying to solve involves the slide not fully chambering a round, then after the round is chambered by pushing the slide forward being unable to retract the slide manually. It moves to the rear 1/4 inch or so then stops dead.
Nothing indicates it’s an Ammo problem which is why I started the thread. The Ammo I can fix, the guns another matter. Again my bad even mentioning the Ammo. Wife always tells me I talk too much.

Is there such a problem as the trigger not moving forward which can hang up the slide ?

fxvr5 · Dec 7, 2019

whughett said:
fxvr5. Not a newbie to handloading, 40 years and tens of thousands of rounds on various presses. However I’m no expert, don’t wildcat or push the envelope but can and do make occasional errors. The Berry bullet is a 115 round nose and seated to an OAL of 1.090, that’s shorter than Blazers 115 FMJ at 1.156. It’s visible shorter.

Good to know. Thanks.

whughett said:
The incident I’m trying to solve involves the slide not fully chambering a round, then after the round is chambered by pushing the slide forward being unable to retract the slide manually. It moves to the rear 1/4 inch or so then stops dead.

This sounds like a classic situation where the bullet is jammed into the rifling. Use one of these same rounds for the plunk test. That will tell you why it's sticking.

Rule3 · Dec 7, 2019

It has to be a problem with "reloaded ammo" It can not possibly be the guns fault! :scrutiny:

(you list two issues failure to go into battery and one magazine is stovepiping) Replace mag springs, replace recoil spring assembly) after trying other ammo.

Buy some decent factory ammo(other than Blazer) not that it is bad ammo and try that, then see if it fails

whughett · Dec 7, 2019

fxvr5 said:
Good to know. Thanks.

This sounds like a classic situation where the bullet is jammed into the rifling. Use one of these same rounds for the plunk test. That will tell you why it's sticking.

Excuse my Irish thick, don’t understand how a cartridge that’s shorter can jamb into the rifling.

It passes the plunk test.

Aside Ive used a variation of that for decades on 1911’s to determine if the case is head spacing on its rim or on the ejector. Drop a case in the 1911 barrel and use a straight edge across the breech, the case should sit flush with the straightedge. A sliver of light is ok also.

fxvr5 · Dec 7, 2019

whughett said:
Excuse my Irish thick, don’t understand how a cartridge that’s shorter can jamb into the rifling.

It passes the plunk test.

Cartridge overall length does not matter. What matters is whether the bullet nose shape contacts the riflings when the round is chambered. That's what the plunk test assesses. Different round nose bullet brands, even with the same apparent shape, can have different curvature to their round nose, and this can affect how long or short they need to be seated to fit in a specific barrel.

whughett · Dec 7, 2019

fxvr5 said:
Cartridge overall length does not matter. What matters is whether the bullet nose shape contacts the riflings when the round is chambered. That's what the plunk test assesses. Different round nose bullet brands, even with the same apparent shape, can have different curvature to their round nose, and this can affect how long or short they need to be seated to fit in a specific barrel.

Learn something new everyday. Been under the illusion if the round fits the magazine it will fit the chamber. Glocks are a different breed of cat I guess.

I still don’t like them. Ugly damn things. And don’t even get me started on that rifling and lead bullets.

fxvr5 · Dec 7, 2019

whughett said:
Learn something new everyday. Been under the illusion if the round fits the magazine it will fit the chamber. Glocks are a different breed of cat I guess.

Fitting in the magazine does not mean it will fit in the chamber. Some Glock barrels have a long throat, some have a short throat. It's how the bullet nose fits the throat that matters, and not all bullets have the same length or contour of ogive, so whenever we switch guns or bullets, we have to do the plunk test to make sure they fit.

The figure below shows the maximum length that specific bullets can be seated to just barely fit in a CZ 9mm barrel. The three round nose bullets require different lengths to fit because the shape of their round nose is different.

TheProf · Dec 7, 2019

Can someone verify if Glock made changes to the newer production Gen 5 so that the short throat problem of the earlier release (of Gen 5) was fixed?

AK103K · Dec 7, 2019

whughett said:
Learn something new everyday. Been under the illusion if the round fits the magazine it will fit the chamber. Glocks are a different breed of cat I guess.

I still don’t like them. Ugly damn things. And don’t even get me started on that rifling and lead bullets.

Ive owned every generation Glock has ever made, currently have guns Gen 2 through 5, and have yet to have a round (within spec) that fit in the mag not chamber in the gun. Never mattered what the shape of the bullet looked like either.

Beauty tends to be in the eye (and experiences) of the beholder. While they arent as pretty as some, they are a lot more functional than many of the so-called prettier ones and just flat out work and shoot. The beauty of the Glocks is, they are utilitarian, and meant to be used, and seem to thrive on it.

As far as the lead thing goes, I think thats more internet myth and misinformation than anything else. While I normally use either jacketed or plated (in pretty much everything I shoot anymore), Ive shot lead in my Glocks, and I know people who have shot a lot more lead out of theirs than I have, and have never had an issue.

There are ways around it if you really need to not, but I really dont think its necessary.

Spats McGee · Dec 7, 2019

whughett said:
....Now I’ve got a loaded round in the chamber and I can’t eject it. I’m home in my basement and I’m reluctant to fire it in the house....

You are wise.

fxvr5 · Dec 7, 2019

AK103K said:
As far as the lead thing goes, I think thats more internet myth and misinformation than anything else.

It's not a myth. Swaged lead bullets leaded my G19 barrel terribly. Hard lead (cast) might be a different story.

whughett · Dec 7, 2019

AK103K said:
Ive owned every generation Glock has ever made, currently have guns Gen 2 through 5, and have yet to have a round (within spec) that fit in the mag not chamber in the gun. Never mattered what the shape of the bullet looked like either.

Beauty tends to be in the eye (and experiences) of the beholder. While they arent as pretty as some, they are a lot more functional than many of the so-called prettier ones and just flat out work and shoot. The beauty of the Glocks is, they are utilitarian, and meant to be used, and seem to thrive on it.

As far as the lead thing goes, I think thats more internet myth and misinformation than anything else. While I normally use either jacketed or plated (in pretty much everything I shoot anymore), Ive shot lead in my Glocks, and I know people who have shot a lot more lead out of theirs than I have, and have never had an issue.

There are ways around it if you really need to not, but I really dont think its necessary.

I don’t own this one, oldest son does and he likes it. I can recall how I haunted a lineman at work who had an FFL to get me the 21 as soon as he could lay his hands on one. They had just been introduced. Paid upwards of 600 for it. The rounds I could shoot cloverleafs with in my GoldCup flew all over the target. 200 grain cast semi-wad cutters and swaged 200 grainers from Hornady. Tried many powders with that combination. Sat in my gun safe until 2005, I took it to a gun show in Fort Myers Florida and sold it to the first guy who offered me 300.

Seems I should have tried FMJ bullets.

whughett · Dec 7, 2019

Spats McGee said:
You are wise.

Oh I was tempted by the devil. A forty mile round trip drive to a Rhode Islander is an over nighter.

whughett · Dec 7, 2019

fxvr5 said:
It's not a myth. Swaged lead bullets leaded my G19 barrel terribly. Hard lead (cast) might be a different story.

When the son brought that 17 in the house, it’s pushing over 25 years ago I was trying to get another 9 to shoot lead. Never succeeded with either. Or a 21 either. Still sitting on the shelf are a box of two brands of “wax gas checks” I tried. An article in HandLoader magazine raved on it. Raspberry.

Glock anomaly.

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