RCBS 44 Magnum die: 2-in-1 decapping / expander unit?

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Alemaniac

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I searched but nothing came up, unless I'm failing to use the proper adjectives and nouns.

Ok, so in December 2018, I purchased a used RCBS 44 Magnum 3-die carbide set on ebay. It came in an older rounder shaped green box and 79 marked on each die. Two of the dies had the older knurled lock ring style while one had the newer style lock ring (no hole for the little brass lock screw, odd). This set sat in my drawer for the past year.

Fast forward a year later and I've finally decided to reload for that cartridge. I disassembled the dies and proceeded to clean them prior to using and noticed the following: the carbide sizer die has no decapping rod and the expander die has a decapping unit integrated into a mouth expander unit.

Here's a photo of the sizer, expander and seating dies from left to right:

nHfuVJ3.jpg

Questions/concerns:
So, it seems this manufacturing style has been revised to not integrate both the decapper and expander? Am I missing pieces? Can I process my brass using what I have and just use the middle die to do two steps in one, safely? Am I going mad?

Thanks everyone,
Alemaniac
 
That was the way RCBS did it back in the day. I have 45 ACP RCBS die set from the late seventies that has the decapper mated to the expander plug.

If you look at the side or top of the die where the information is stamped you should see a two digit number. That would be the year the dies were made.

As a side note, sometime in the 1990s, RCBS went to a letter desgination for the year but have since returned to the number system.
 
I still use this with my old RCBS carbide sizing dies. 1 fits 357, 45acp, 44 mag , others. IMG_3876.jpg

It allows you to size and knock the primer out at the same time. Does not expand.

Its needed on my Dillon RL-450 . At station 1 i size, decap & seat a new primer.
 
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I see no reason the dies would not work as intended. The change to the sizing die for decapping is probably just because reloaders preferred it that way.
 
The decapper/expander plug works fine.I have a number of die sets made that way.Adjust for the amount of flare you want and you're ready to go.
 
I prefer that old style expander, it slightly opens the mouth down a little ways and flares more evenly. Similar to the Lee powder through die.
 
My earliest RCBS die set is a .45ACP set from 85... it has the traditional sizer/decap pin setup, and is the only way most progressive presses would work.
 
Thanks everyone, after your explanations, I don't feel silly or crazy nor am I lacking parts for this 1979-made set. I think what confused me a bit was the fact that nothing threads into the sizer die so there's just naked threads exposed when sizing. Just now, I resized and expanded 102x 44 magnum cases with ease...and all of them were below 32.512mm length (thanks Starline).

I guess the only thing I need to discover...is this a taper crimp or roll crimp set. The label on the box has been long gone so there's no part number present. How would one determine this?

I have a box of 50x Speer deep curl 270gr (part 4461) that I picked up for cheap at a local gun shop and noticed there's a cannelure present.

Thanks everyone for the continued and appreciated education.

-Alemaniac
 
I guess the only thing I need to discover...is this a taper crimp or roll crimp set. The label on the box has been long gone so there's no part number present. How would one determine this?

The seat die most probably has a roll crimp. While taper crimp dies were available when your dies were made, they were not as common as today.

My 45 ACP set came with a roll crimp and I had to special order a taper crimp die for it. If I remember correctly, the taper crimp die said taper crimp on it but I have not used it in a while as I load 45 ACP on a Dillon SDB these days. The 7/8"-14 threaded 45 ACP dies are sitting quietly in my die storage cabinet.

If are crimping on a bullet with a crimp groove or cannelure. A role crimp will start to turn the case mouth into the groove while the taper crimp will not.
 
Back in the day....taper crimping was done by backing up the resizing die and crimping in the radius of the size die. Just a bump on case mouth flare. Not as nice as a dedicated TC, but workable
 
What Rod47 said. It was the recommended method for seating bullets that headspaced on the case mouth such as 45 ACP.

I learned I could special order a taper crimp die at the time so I did. Much easier than adjusting the roll crimp die.

Shortly thereafter in the 1980s, taper crimp dies became more normal and available.
 
I have an old Bair die set like that for 38 SPL and an Older Herters set for 45 Colt that is that way as well. Both of them will roll crimp just fine. The thing is getting used to the different order in the beginning.
 
I have several RCBS die sets for the 60's and 70's and there the same way.

Like said the crimp die is the seating die, you just need to run the die body down till you get the crimp. Back off the seating stem while making this adj, then run back down after set.
 
So, it seems this manufacturing style has been revised to not integrate both the decapper and expander?

Unless the case is like a bottle neck or fairly long and tapered case, you can’t expand and size at the same time.

If you tried to tried to expand and size at the same time with a 44 mag case, you would lock it into the die as you crushed the brass into the expander.

It works on bottle neck cases because the expander is below the neck when it is sized and drawn back through once it is no longer in contact with the die.

C29C4A8C-4F4A-461E-ADAA-30A4379FAF3A.jpeg

That leaves you with another operation to do on pistol cases to expand and flare. Most do that while not decapping because that’s also a good time to charge the case (assuming you primed after sizing and decapping). Yours is just another way to “skin the cat”.
 
That set of dies the OP has must have been made for Single stage only. Won't work on a progressive, I expect that's why they don't make them that way anymore. I wouldn't be able to use that set of dies on any press I have except single stage due to the primer having to be punched out in the first station because of the spent primer drop tube is only on station 1 on all presses I know of.
If you resize and punch primers so you can clean your brass they you have to resize the cases, then neck size them again. Then how do you put primers in because when neck sizing again you just punch out your live primer. The order of operation is wrong for a progressive.
Definitely made for Single Stage only. No wonder they quit make them.
 
You can still do it on a AP but you have to use a universal deprimer in station 1.

Agreed, it is possible. But if you are getting into a progressive press, it would be best to have a set of dies that optimize the capability of the progressive press. In the grand scheme of things, the cost of dies is minimal to the cost of the entire system.

Now, if you do what I do where I separate case re-sizing from case loading, then the choice of dies and location in the dies in the process is less critical. But still, decapping needs to be done in station one with most progressive presses as the spent primer collection system is there.
 
Unless the case is like a bottle neck or fairly long and tapered case, you can’t expand and size at the same time.

If you tried to tried to expand and size at the same time with a 44 mag case, you would lock it into the die as you crushed the brass into the expander.

It works on bottle neck cases because the expander is below the neck when it is sized and drawn back through once it is no longer in contact with the die.

View attachment 876969

That leaves you with another operation to do on pistol cases to expand and flare. Most do that while not decapping because that’s also a good time to charge the case (assuming you primed after sizing and decapping). Yours is just another way to “skin the cat”.

Err yeah, that was ignorant on my part and it makes sense now while the bottle necked dies can decap and resize while straight wall require a separate unit. If only dies were made transparent :rofl:

Thank you all for the clarifications; I was able to successfully load 50 rounds using some Speer 270gr Deep Curl bullets and yes, after following the instructions I have for adjusting for a roll crimp, each round turned out as per specifications.
 
Those are an older set of dies, like the others said, and will work just fine unless you are using them on a progressive press. That may be the reason that they changed them. The newer dies also have a larger radius on the die opening.
 
Err yeah, that was ignorant on my part and it makes sense now while the bottle necked dies can decap and resize while straight wall require a separate unit. If only dies were made transparent

When I didn’t know better to think about it before hand, I locked a die up pretty good when I raised the decapping pin up and didn’t keep in mind the expander position.

One reason I am fairly decent in figuring out where problems come from, is because I have caused so many in my lifetime. ;)
 
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