One way people form preferences about guns/caliber...

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I don't care how the 1911 got it's start (OK, yes I do, but not as much as...) I care about it's unwarranted demise. I was in the Army as an Armorer when the switch to the M9 was made; Those who were issued 1911's were NOT happy about it, and those who were issued S&W M10's, Victory Models, and Colt .38's WERE happy about it. (We had a MEDEVAC unit, so the aircrews had revolvers) I was issued an M16A1, but since I was the Armorer,and I shot one of those 1911A1's on the Bn, Pistol team, I was sad to see them go-especially the M1911 (not A1) that was the XO's issue. He was the captain of the pistol team, and his was made in 1917, never altered. Still had the walnut double diamond grips, the A1's had brown plastic ones.
The only positive thing I can say about the M9 is my score went up, a whopping two, from 38/40, to 40/40. I have rather taken any of those loose, hard recoiling, "junky" M1911A1's to combat with me than a brand new M9.

According to this, they used Colt 1902 and 1909 .45 revolvers. I knew about the 1909 but the 1902 is new information to me. Assuming the story is accurate.

https://www.manilatimes.net/2014/06...ent-of-the-colt-45-caliber-model-1911/107609/
The M1902 was a commercial semiauto. Perhaps you mean the Colt New Service revolver in .45 Colt?
The whole controversy started because of the inadequacy of the New Service .38 LC's stopping power.
 
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I love repeating the 45 ACP myths with a wink and a grin. So powerful a shot to a limb will knock a man to the ground, so accurate you'd never fail to hit vitals.

9mm will kill him, eventually, but 45acp will make him dead right there just nicking a pinky.

In seriousness I learned gun safety from Cooper and as we all know his 5th rule is "1911 or bust", that's why I like it.
 
'm old enough now to chuckle about what I "learned" about guns and shooting from TV and movies growing up (much of it still going on):
Guns don't recoil so there's nothing to mess up your groups
Guys shoot in close quarters dozens of times but never have hearing damage
Bad guys are flung backwards off their feet and die immediately when shot
Good guys get shot in the leg, shoulder, hands etc but are never crippled or suffer lasting damage
There's no blood or ugly wounds when people are shot
Full auto rifles have unlimited ammo capacity, and most other guns are pretty close to that
"Silencers" make pistols and revolvers absolutely silent
1911s and similar pattern pistols don't have to have the hammer back to shoot
A .380 hits "like a brick through a plate glass window" (thank you James Bond's armorer)
AND:

A man with a Single Action Army Revolver can shoot down five people quickly by fanning
"Cowboys" with six-guns can hit people at rifle range
Accurate shooting from a galloping horse.....

I bought a .45 auto largely on the basis of myth (though I can shoot it well), and I had similar misconceptions about my .45 Colt SAA.
 
AND:

A man with a Single Action Army Revolver can shoot down five people quickly by fanning
"Cowboys" with six-guns can hit people at rifle range
Accurate shooting from a galloping horse.....

I bought a .45 auto largely on the basis of myth (though I can shoot it well), and I had similar misconceptions about my .45 Colt SAA.

One of those moments that sticks in my mind is in "The Revenant," where Leonardo DiCaprio, while in full gallop and hardly looking, shoots another man off of his horse with his flintlock pistol. IIRC, there were other instances of ridiculously long hits with those pistols.

Yeah -- I know these guys lived and breathed by their firearms... But c'mon... :D

.
 
I think the .45 ACP is a good round but I personally don't have any special feelings towards it. Some are perfectly content, this day and age, to carry a 1911 loaded with 230gr FMJ, not my first pick by a long shot but okay, whatever. One time after shooting a local pistol match and a younger guy, a teenager, wanted to shoot another guys 1911 .45. Mind you this was a match and he was using handloads that are lighter than normal rounds yet told the younger guy to hold onto tight it because it's a .45. Really? A bunnyfart .45 in an all steel 1911? Give me a break. On another occasion a guy shows up, whips out his .44 and proceeds to miss everything he shot at then claimed he didn't really have to hit them well because it's a .44. Another guy had a Taurus judge and claimed that with .410 slugs it was a legitimate deer gun, so yeah there's a lot of stupid out there.
 
These stories seem to conflict with what I heard.
I heard the 45 acp frequently couldn’t penetrate the thick winter coats of the Koreans in the Korean War, and I heard that on THR so it has to be true.

Guess we should swear it off.
 
I am deep in the midst of a love affair with the .38 Colt, at least partly because of how useless it is. Among the luxuries of getting old is the discovery that one doesn't have to be serious about guns all the time!
 
Why this ongoing need to chastise others on these types of forums for their choice…
There is no attempt to chastise anyone for what firearms they choose—the post isn’t about WHAT people choose, rather it points out one way that people form preferences—specifically a way that’s not ideal. It’s not about telling people what choices they should or shouldn’t make, the idea is that it’s better for people to form preferences based on fact rather than on made up stories. And the idea is that it’s important that people do not propagate made up stories, but rather provide factual information.
…want to criticize them for their choice.
This is missing the point of the OP. Nobody is criticizing people for WHAT choices they make. If anyone is being criticized, it is the people who make up, and perpetuate apocryphal stories about firearms. It is, of course, obviously better for people to make choices based on facts rather than on fiction and those who know the facts should help provide those facts and also help quash the nonsense that others have made up and passed along.
…that one bravado know it all, that has to burst some newbies excitement with their negativity about the newbies firearm....or has to bash dad's/grandpa's choice for their son's/grandson's first deer rifle.....because they know better.
I agree that it’s tasteless and obnoxious for a person to denigrate someone’s possessions which is why there’s absolutely nothing in the OP saying that people shouldn’t buy 1911 pistols or choose the .45ACP caliber or saying that if they do they only did it because they don’t know better. The focus was making sure that factual information is propagated and fiction is pointed out for what it is. NOT while someone is showing you their new firearms, but in a context like this forum where information can be disseminated in a less personal, more general way.
As long as those fellow owners are responsible and support my right to choose what I want for a firearm, why would I be a jerk?
You absolutely shouldn’t be. But providing actual information to “bust some myths” as it were , is useful. NOT in the context of popping someone’s balloon when they are showing off or enjoying a firearm, but rather in the interest of exchanging useful and interesting factual information about firearms—which is what this forum is all about, after all.
If they shoot it and enjoy it, is it really such a big deal?
Nope. WHAT they choose to buy and shoot and enjoy isn’t the point of this OP. But making sure people have good information is a big deal.
Just curious but what about the several hundred 1911's made for troop testing? Might not some of them made it to PI before regular production?
As far as I can tell, nobody has found any verifiable reports of that in spite of the topic being of considerable interest. It is possible that some did—but a few pre-production 1911’s filtering into the Philippines still wouldn’t account for stories about their “frequent” use against charging Moros.
 
One of those moments that sticks in my mind is in "The Revenant," where Leonardo DiCaprio, while in full gallop and hardly looking, shoots another man off of his horse with his flintlock pistol. IIRC, there were other instances of ridiculously long hits with those pistols.

Yeah -- I know these guys lived and breathed by their firearms... But c'mon... :D

.

We had a Hickok - Tutt Competition at the range where everyone got a "Cold" Shot at a Silhouette with a 4" x 5" target box at 75 yards with a .36 Navy.

What did we learn? Ain't none of us Hickok.
 
I think it's hilarious that the same people that HATE 40S&W LOVE 10mm.

Ridiculous.

What I think you are seeing, is folks who have a lot vested in 9mm and 45ACP. They see 40 S&W as a "jump on the bandwagon" caliber.
And many folks are now jumping off the bandwagon, also, since the FBI went back to 9mm. This presents a unique opportunity, for a short
time, as used 40s show up at gun and pawn shops cheap.

10mm, OTOH, is seen as the original "40", with power that easily outclasses 9mm, or 45ACP, in a portable auto-loader. It's considered to be a far more viable hunting sidearm than 9mm, 45, or 44Mag, based on pistol size, and a fast reload. YMMV.
 
Just read a magazine article reviewing an imported 1911 pistol. In it, the author mentioned that a family member had fought in the Philippine Insurrection and had told him stories about how the 1911 was "frequently" used on charging Moros.

One episode of Book TV I watched the author of The Lost Papers of Confederate General John Bell Hood

General Hood was working on a book before the died, and all of the records he had written and assimilated were not found till recently. General Hood had lost an arm and a leg due to combat injuries. Since WW2 many books have claimed that General Hood was doped up on morphine prior to the disastrous battle of Franklin. Stephen Hood, the author, traced the history of this claim. One book suggested that General Hood "may have been under the influence" at the time of the battle, the next book claimed he definitely was under the influence, and by the time you get into the 1990's, authors were stating as fact, the exact dosage of morphine that General Hood was taking!

I read the book. In it were the exact Doctor's notes written during General Hood's last amputation. It clearly showed that the Doctor understood morphine addiction and reduced dosages as General Hood recovered to the point that he was able to function without any morphine at all.

Very few book authors are in it for anything else but the money. And time is money. So, they compile hastily, assume the material they are plagiarizing was properly researched, and "improve" the story to create a ripping good yarn. At some point in the future, what is written is so detached from reality, to become mythical. (The Iliad and the Odyssey were stories that were sung for centuries in front of audiences before being written down. In time they developed into ripping good stories, after being massaged for maximum audience affect, but neither are very far from the actual events of the Trojan war. I believe the Trojan Horse is a ripping good story plot, not an actual event. )

I can say, I have been railing for years against the idea that lubricated cartridges

Cartridges should never be greased or oiled, and the bullets should never be greased. Grease on the cartridge or in the chamber creates excessive and hazardous pressure. It operates to reduce the size of the chamber and thus increases the density of loading and the pressure.

a quote which comes from Hatcher's Notebook. The in print writers who quote this as gospel are totally unaware, or just ignore the multitude of weapons that used greased or oiled ammunition. It really shows how most authors are not experts, don't have critical thinking abilities, quote nonsense to the point it becomes doctrine, and don't know firearms history. I think most of us here lived through the period in which Kinetic Energy was lethality. And we used to see charts, where it took this much KE to kill a deer, this much KE for a cow, much more KE for a larger animal. It was all taken very seriously and it sold a lot of guns. It was however, pseudoscience.
 
I think it's hilarious that the same people that HATE 40S&W LOVE 10mm.
From one standpoint, it makes perfect sense. The 10mm came out and it was supposed to be the greatest thing ever. Jeff Cooper loved it. The FBI adopted it. Sonny Crockett carried one in Miami Vice! Magazine gunwriters gushed over it and gun store commandos practically fainted at its mention.

Then S&W came out with this short cartridge that couldn't hope to duplicate the 10mm's performance and within just months, the 10mm went to the back burner. It went from being top of the heap to the point where only a couple of manufacturers kept making guns and ammo got scarce.

Yeah, there's a good reason for big 10mm fans to be unhappy (to varying degrees) about the .40S&W.
 
Like I said pick a platform that works for you then pick the cartridge that works for you in that platform. I don't see cartridges as one size fits all. I see nothing wrong with the Glock G35 or G42 and wouldn't choose .380 or .40 in both even if that was an option.
 
What I think you are seeing, is folks who have a lot vested in 9mm and 45ACP. They see 40 S&W as a "jump on the bandwagon" caliber.
And many folks are now jumping off the bandwagon, also, since the FBI went back to 9mm. This presents a unique opportunity, for a short
time, as used 40s show up at gun and pawn shops cheap.

10mm, OTOH, is seen as the original "40", with power that easily outclasses 9mm, or 45ACP, in a portable auto-loader. It's considered to be a far more viable hunting sidearm than 9mm, 45, or 44Mag, based on pistol size, and a fast reload. YMMV.

I've shot both a 10mm and 40S&W, I can barely tell a difference, the 10mm is a touch snappier, but not night and day difference.

40S&W is also more powerful than 9mm and 45ACP, just like 10mm.

Gun snobs, ammo snobs, now caliber snobs. What's next? Finish snobs, mag snobs, grip snobs?
 
At MCRD Parris Island SC time period summer of 1964, recruits fired the 1911A1 (2-7Rd Magazines) for familiarization training. Fast forward to Viet-Nam if your MOS required, one was issued a 1911A1. Field experience taught one what generation's before had learned the rifle is primary and the 1911A1 is a supplement. Most individuals if practical acquired rifles. That's how it was in Viet-Nam with those I served with.
 
When folks talk about penetration or the proverbial this beats that...

Try competing against a 5.7x28. A bud has one and at his uncle's auto salvage yard; it out penetrates every caliber we had or .40. 9 mm. .45 ACP etc.
His uncle's only rule was don't shoot anything I can sell.. ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_5.7×28mm

Of course, you make a little tiny bullet travel at almost 3000 ft/s and it will penetrate.
 
The FN PDW System, in 5.7 is light, accurate, and simple to operate. They would be a lot more popular, IMO, if they weren't so expensive.
 
I shoot a SW 1911Sc Commander (that's a Scandium gun) in IDPA quite a bit with typically 230 gr WWB. I'm not a big guy but have reasonable hand strength. I mentioned I have a 1911 to two guys. Both were over 6 feet. One said that he shot a 1911 in the Army and it damn near tore his arm off. Well, he was an accountant in the Army. The other was big guy who hunted moose in MN. He said the same thing. Huh? Little ol me can shoot about 95 rounds in the morning and still have my hand?
 
I mentioned I have a 1911 to two guys. Both were over 6 feet. One said that he shot a 1911 in the Army and it damn near tore his arm off. Well, he was an accountant in the Army. The other was big guy who hunted moose in MN. He said the same thing. Huh? Little ol me can shoot about 95 rounds in the morning and still have my hand?


Wow. Just wow. I don't even know what to say about that. I was shooting my dad's 1911 when I was 10.
 
Yeah, we had a 13 year old girl who shot a 1911 like a demon and an older women who looked like she escaped from Tut's tomb who had no problems.
 
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