S&B 9mm NATO

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94045

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Club was handing out 50 rounds of S&B 9mm NATO 124 gr free today. It was in small plastic baggies and has green primer sealer so I suspect it was some contract over run stuff. It seemed a little warm. It felt like it had more recoil than the Federal Tactical Bonded 135 gr +P that was the warmest stuff I had on hand to compare it to.

Anyone shot this stuff before and noticed it being on the warm side? I've shot Winchester 9mm NATO before and this was considerably warmer feeling than that.

It was a little snappy out of the P365.
 
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I found European NATO spec ammo like S&B can be warmer than US commercial ammo.

Another factor is barrel's groove-to-groove size. Many factory barrels, particularly European barrels can be oversized up to .358" compared to more typical .356" for US factory barrels.

So shooting warmer ammo like S&B in .356" barrels will definitely feel snappier.
 
We used to use it almost exclusively for test firing the carbines we built.

*Snappy* is a fine adjective.

Always loved it. Reliable in performance and ejection.

Todd.
 
I mostly euro-sourced 124s (S&B and Ruag/Geco) but have even shot a class where I switched from US factory reloads to the SB that sounds the same as yours, and so haven't noticed compared to any other 8g/124gr bullets.

Feels to me a lot like expected: more than 115, less than 147.

Mostly shoot it in one of two M&P 1.0 4.25" or a Kahr P9. Oh, and a colt cloned no-name 9mm upper in which case it's "right." Feels proper.

Anyway, 100% reliable, seems to be great ammo.
 
If you're talking about SB9B ammo, I've shot a lot of it. Clean, consistent and good quality. Clocked at 1181 fps from a 5" barrel. Runs about $9 a box in bulk. Good ammo.
 
Went back to the Club...
P365 3.1" Avg Velocity - 1160 fps
Beretta 4.7" fps Avg Velocity - 1270 fps
(Disclaimer - With the club Chrono, can't vouch for accuracy ).

I guess that answers that.
 
Club was handing out 50 rounds of S&B 9mm NATO 124 gr free today. It was in small plastic baggies and has green primer sealer so I suspect it was some contract over run stuff. It seemed a little warm. It felt like it had more recoil than the Federal Tactical Bonded 135 gr +P that was the warmest stuff I had on hand to compare it to.

Anyone shot this stuff before and noticed it being on the warm side? I've shot Winchester 9mm NATO before and this was considerably warmer feeling than that.

It was a little snappy out of the P365.
Italian Police and Carabinieri are now using S&B 9mm NATO instead of Fiocchi NATO, both pretty hot stuff. I've been told that you can't reload those S&B cases because the ignition hole is too tight and it can break the dies pin.
 
94045, You are right in that S&B running hotter. The Winchester 9mm NATO zips out at 1200 ft/sec, vice the 1270 you discovered.
 
I have always like the S&B fodder here in the US.

In Europe it has a bit of a "Blazer" like reputation, but, in contexts, I suspect that is more related to the reloading components SB sells than the loaded ammo.
 
I have always like the S&B fodder here in the US.

In Europe it has a bit of a "Blazer" like reputation, but, in contexts, I suspect that is more related to the reloading components SB sells than the loaded ammo.

It's funny how that is. I've heard S&B described as dirty yet it's both the cleanest (primer pockets are cleaner after firing than Winchester or FAE after cleaning) and strongest (820 fps) practice Ammo I've seen in .45 ACP out of my 3.3" barrel .45 Shield. It is only 20 fps slower than Federal Tactical Bonded 230 gr JHP +P and shoots to the same POI.
 
It's funny how that is. I've heard S&B described as dirty yet it's both the cleanest (primer pockets are cleaner after firing than Winchester or FAE after cleaning) and strongest (820 fps) practice Ammo I've seen in .45 ACP out of my 3.3" barrel .45 Shield. It is only 20 fps slower than Federal Tactical Bonded 230 gr JHP +P and shoots to the same POI.

Agreed. The local indoor range used to use it as their "standard" rental ammo and I enjoyed how a lot of their brass I bought from them was very clean.

They use Sig ammo now and it's OK, but not quite as nice.

Speaking of... I noticed I'm a little light on .45 cases and need to make a run.
 
I probably made a mistake, it wasn't their corporate lawyers, it was no doubt their product liability lawyers.

I didn't specify which lawyers, I just said lawyers.

Have you actually talked with lawyers or people who make those decisions in the ammunition industry, or did you just make that up?

Your statement requires evidence. I'd like to see it. This lawyer 'myth' comes up from time to time but no one has provided any evidence of it. You could be the first one to do that. Thanks.
 
I didn't specify which lawyers, I just said lawyers.

Have you actually talked with lawyers or people who make those decisions in the ammunition industry, or did you just make that up?

Your statement requires evidence. I'd like to see it. This lawyer 'myth' comes up from time to time but no one has provided any evidence of it. You could be the first one to do that. Thanks.
I doubt any ammo company is going to have a public release espousing how their attorneys have reduced power in their loads, that would do wonders for sales.

However, due to our litigious society, pushed by lawyers hoping to hit a grand slam with a class action suit, just about every American produced product has a carefully worded warning, often in basic legalese, giving us ridiculous warnings on how to use their products, hoping to avoid liability. Is there anyone out there who does not realize these are from the company’s legal department?

If you see several people walk inside with wet clothing or umbrellas, you don’t have to personally see the rain to make a reasonable assumption that it’s raining.

I’ll throw the ball back to your court: Do you have any evidence that the reduced power in American ammo is not the work of product liability lawyers?
 
I’ll throw the ball back to your court: Do you have any evidence that the reduced power in American ammo is not the work of product liability lawyers?

So you have no evidence. You'll just perpetuate the myth.

Since you made the claim, you have the burden of proof.

What reduced power of american ammo are you speaking of?
 
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So you have no evidence. You'll just perpetuate the myth.

Since you made the claim, you have the burden of proof.

What reduced power of american ammo are you speaking of?
I think we're done, we've each made our positions clear. We shouldn't make this personal and lose sight of what the original question was in this post.

Thanks for sharing your point of view.
 
Lawyers aside, 9mm NATO is loaded hotter than 9mm Luger. One can feel it when one shoots it if one doesn’t have a chronograph or any fancy test equipment. Instead of stating that and leaving it that way I found and posted some links. You’ll notice these aren’t links to forums where people comment with suppositions and hearsay. These are links to Blogs and everyone knows that Bloggers are experts in everything they post about. (he said rolling his eyes with his tongue planted in his cheek) :p:D

Actually, these links all agree so they must be close to being correct...;)

https://www.gunnuts.net/2009/04/03/9mm-nato-vs-9mm-luger/

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/difference-between-9mm-and-9mm-luger/

https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/lodge/9mm-luger-ammunition-names/

https://www.alloutdoor.com/2014/10/01/winchester-9mm-nato-bulk-ammo-bad-pistol/

Enjoy! And Merry Christmas :cool:
 
For the USA in civil court if manufacturer follows a standard like SAAMI relative to safe pressures there should be a sound legal argument that the product is safe and not defective when used as directed. Overseas I am not sure, but know there is much more government regulation for how weapons and I assume ammunition is made for civilian use.
There is always a but or however: I strongly suspect some of the smaller loads like .32 S&W long is underloaded because of the many of the older breakopen blackpowder revolvers of dubious strength after more than a 100 years. At one time unofficially the .38 super was not loaded up to full spec. The underloading I suspect was due to: Some of the older colt .38 automatic guns are not rated for the super loading and I know of at least one common spanish blow back 9mm largo x23 pistol that will often freely chamber .38 super rounds. Depends on the breech face accepting the semi-rim of the .38 auto.
For 9mm Luger x19 I do not think people are so worried. One can buy +P+ 9mm for which I understand there is no SAAMI or NATO spec from several sources.
Some SAAMI spec are so loaded down as to create a dangerous situation.
Some .32's do not have sufficient pressure to clear a rifle barrel and will get stuck.
due to rather low pressures and velocities of the .32 S&W Long (15,000 psi is current industry maximum), some of the jacketed bullet loads may potentially stick bullets in the bore when fired in rifles (such as Marlin Model 1894CB chambered in .32 H&R Magnum). Thus, they are not recommended. Rather, use either of the Hornady lead bullets listed (as they give much less resistance in the bore), and use maximum powder charges.
https://loaddata.com/articles/PDF/32 SW Long.pdf
SAAMI 9x19 data page number 185 https://saami.org/wp-content/upload...FP-and-R-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf
upload_2019-12-25_8-32-30.png
 
I’m a fan of the S&B ammo as well as other Euro ammo makers, including GECO and MEN. I find their quality and consistency to be very good, and they are generally very good prices. I love MAGTEC too, but it’s not Euro.

I liken their quality to as good or better than the American range fodder like Winchester white box, Federal AE, CCI Blazer, Speer Lawman, and Remington UMC, and often much less carbon buildup.

I cannot comment on the “hotter” comment since I don’t chrono the velocities, but in my steel plate “offhand” shooting, it seems every bit as accurate.

Just my opinion...YMMV

Merry Christmas Y’all!
 
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