Best "Off the Shelf" AR for HD- (I Know....)

There are so many viable options that it's hard to pick just one. Off the top of my head Ruger and S&W are hard to argue with, but honestly most any of them in the same price range are good. Pick the one with the features you like.

Just to add, indoors I still prefer a handgun. There are times having one hand gun free is important and it is just easier in close quarters. If I didn't own a gun at all I'd advise handgun 1st. If you already have a handgun then adding an AR is a good idea.

I would either get a Ruger 556 or a PSA upper and lower with a slim free float rail and 16” barrel so you can put your flashlight on it.

Actually I change my mind, I would get a lower with a pistol brace and a 10.5” upper.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...shockwave-pistol-lower-no-magazine-black.html

https://palmettostatearmory.com/cus...LWZsdXRlZC1mbGFzaC1jYW4tNTE2NDQ3MDEyLmh0bWw,/

I would never use an AR for home defense because of the high likely hood of one of my family members being hit after the bullet flies through a couple pieces of drywall.

I guess if you live in an apartment though other people's lives are cheap! I can't imagine why the anti-gunners don't think the public is responsible enough to own an AR?

MikeInOr said:

I would never use an AR for home defense because of the high likely hood of one of my family members being hit after the bullet flies through a couple pieces of drywall.

I guess if you live in an apartment though other people's lives are cheap! I can't imagine why the anti-gunners don't think the public is responsible enough to own an AR?

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Might want to save the outrage and just use something other than FMJ or M855.

I have mine loaded with Hornady 55 grain VMAX coyote loads. On drywall it fragments after the first and all you get are fragments that won’t penetrate the second.

It penetrates less than 9mm JHP.

Here are some other results.

MikeInOr said:

I would never use an AR for home defense because of the high likely hood of one of my family members being hit after the bullet flies through a couple pieces of drywall.

I guess if you live in an apartment though other people's lives are cheap! I can't imagine why the anti-gunners don't think the public is responsible enough to own an AR?

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.223, especially in defensive loadings, will usually penetrate less walls than popular defensive handgun calibers as well as shotgun slugs and buckshot. The reason is the high velocity and low weight of .223 projectiles tends to make them yaw and/or break up sooner when passing through construction material. If you use birdshot in a shotgun it won't penetrate as much as most of the other options, but using birdshot for self defense carries it's own issues.

I'm one of those "AR snobs".

It's not that I dont like or own cheaper ARs, I have them, its more that I've been carrying them professionally for roughly 17 years now and have seen the real life reliability difference. I was issued a cheaper "just as good" Bushmaster early in my LE career. It overall ran reliably but it broke several times and wouldn't run 5.56 reliably due to a tight chamber that would pop primers. Ever since we switched back to properly built rifles (in my case a Colt 6920) reliability issues and parts breakage are much much more rare.

Will a cheaper gun work for what you need? Most likely yes. Is there a benefit of buying a more proven built to correct spec rifle? Definitely.

someguy2800 said:

Actually I change my mind, I would get a lower with a pistol brace and a 10.5” upper.

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A good choice but it really, really needs to be suppressed. Short barrel AR indoors will cause permanent hearing damage in an instant and the muzzle flash is blinding in a dark room. My combo (vintage XM177E2 + Ase Utra SL5 can) has worked pretty well for a couple of decades, still not quiet but somewhat tolerable.

Texas10mm said:

I see the M4 snobs are out in force on this thread.

A basic Ruger, S&W, or PSA will serve your needs just fine.

You're not some secret squirrel wannbe, you're not some 3 gun runner. You just want a basic carbine for home defense.

All three of the brands listed above will go bang when the trigger is pulled, all three fit your budget, and all three are just fine for the vast majority of gun owners.

It's the same with 1911 pistols. There are those that will tell you if it's not a Wilson or some bespoke build that it's trash.

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Actually even if you’re a 3 gunner the M&P (Smith & Wesson) isn’t a bad choice. Jerry Miculek runs one. Sure he’s modified it, and he and his wife use them in their training courses. I’m sure the training guns go through much more than most of us will inflict on a home defense gun.

I haven’t played with the Ruger but I have M&P and PSA and I’m with you. Both are fine if you’re getting a budget AR.

Browning said:

Might want to save the outrage and just use something other than FMJ or M855.

I have mine loaded with Hornady 55 grain VMAX coyote loads. On drywall it fragments after the first and all you get are fragments that won’t penetrate the second.

It penetrates less than 9mm JHP.

Here are some other results.

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I have owned a .223 for 25 years and I know first hand what all variety of .223 ammo will do to a 1/2" plywood target backdrop at 200 yards and what it will do to what ever is behind it. And the collateral damage is nothing I would subject my family too.

But if you don't mind the guy in the room next to you blasting away at you through the wall with his AR because he is using Hornady Vmax more power to you!

Hokie_PhD said:

Ok so serious question.
Is an AR the best choice for him in an apartment?

I’d be worried about shooting a neighbor through a wall.
Anyone have a better suggestion in his budget?

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MikeInOr said:

I would never use an AR for home defense because of the high likely hood of one of my family members being hit after the bullet flies through a couple pieces of drywall.

I guess if you live in an apartment though other people's lives are cheap! I can't imagine why the anti-gunners don't think the public is responsible enough to own an AR?

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With proper ammo selection, you can get .223 Rem / 5.56 NATO SD/HD rounds that have equal or less drywall penetration than typical handgun and shotgun HD/SD rounds - http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/ammunition.html . Light construction, light weight, high velocity rounds (like .223 / 5.556) tend to come apart more than heavier, bonded core, slow rounds (like 9mm and larger handgun rounds that weigh twice or more what .223/5.56 rounds weigh).

MikeInOr said:

I have owned a .223 for 25 years and I know first hand what all variety of .223 ammo will do to a 1/2" plywood target backdrop at 200 yards and what it will do to what ever is behind it. And the collateral damage is nothing I would subject my family too.

But if you don't mind the guy in the room next to you blasting away at you through the wall with Hornady Vmax more power to you!

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Using the term “Blasting Away” implies that the individual in question is irresponsibly spraying and praying rather than taking aimed shots after a proper evaluation to do their best in regards to training and weapons and ammunition selection to reduce the likelihood of harm to any other person except the person trying to victimize them.

Not what I’m saying at all.

bk42261 said:

...I'll be moving into a new apartment soon, and just want you're thoughts on the "Best' AR I could buy and use WITHOUT any "mods"....

Thanks

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580 series Ruger Mini-14.

You're welcome.
GR

MikeInOr said:

through the wall with his AR because he is using Hornady Vmax more power to you!

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Frankly, I've never really understood the principle of building the majority of dividing walls of gypsum drywall and timber. In our current apartment there's just one short section of wall - of about couple of dozen - built that way. The rest is hand laid brick. Same thing with our earlier house. Sound insulation properties are from a different world and if I'd want to shoot through a wall into another room, much less an adjacent apartment, even a .308 would be an unlikely candidate for punching through with a single shot.

Just wondering. Never mind. Carry on.

Garandimal said:

580 series Ruger Mini-14.

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That cost half again what a good entry level AR cost. Why would the OP pay more for a lesser rifle?

hq said:

A good choice but it really, really needs to be suppressed. Short barrel AR indoors will cause permanent hearing damage in an instant and the muzzle flash is blinding in a dark room. My combo (vintage XM177E2 + Ase Utra SL5 can) has worked pretty well for a couple of decades, still not quiet but somewhat tolerable.

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That's why I suggested the BRT Covert Comp. It directs the sound and muzzle blast down range and away from the shooter and does a good job cutting down on the flash. A suppressor would be much better option for someone willing to put up with the cost and NFA paperwork.

There will be hearing damage from any firearm fired indoors.

ugaarguy said:

That cost half again what a good entry level AR cost. Why would the OP pay more for a lesser rifle?

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Better suited for the work at hand.
- Utterly reliable.
- Low sight axis.
- Full wood stock.




GR

Garandimal said:

Better suited for the work at hand.
- Utterly reliable.
- Low bore axis.
- Full wood stock.




GR

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Modern ARs are more reliable. They're less finicky than the Garand based op-rod design. The low bore axis is irrelevant. The AR pattern ergos are better for HD use. An AR is easier to put a light and red dot sight on, which the OP said they wanted to do. Wood stocks are less durable than polymer.

ugaarguy said:

Modern ARs are more reliable. They're less finicky than the Garand based op-rod design. The low bore axis is irrelevant. The AR pattern ergos are better for HD use. An AR is easier to put a light and red dot sight on, which the OP said they wanted to do. Wood stocks are less durable than polymer.

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Disagree.

Mine has been 100% reliable over thousands of rounds - so what is "more" reliable?

The low sight axis, at room/HD distances, is Very relevant. Vertical offset is less than an inch. The bullet goes where you aim it, w/o offset correction.

A full wood stock - is also a pugil stick. Very handy in close quarters as well as being a non-lethal weapon.

All in all, a better weapon for the work at hand.




GR

ugaarguy said:

Modern ARs are more reliable. They're less finicky than the Garand based op-rod design. The low bore axis is irrelevant. The AR pattern ergos are better for HD use. An AR is easier to put a light and red dot sight on, which the OP said they wanted to do. Wood stocks are less durable than polymer.

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I agree with everything in the above with one exception- sight height over bore is relevant. Enough so that it's something every AR shooter needs to train for.

Garandimal said:

Disagree.

Mine has been 100% reliable over thousands of rounds - so what is "more" reliable?

The low sight axis, at room/HD distances, is Very relevant. Vertical offset is less than an inch. The bullet goes where you aim it, w/o offset correction.

A full wood stock - is also a pugil stick. Very handy in close quarters as well as being a non-lethal weapon.

All in all, a better weapon for the work at hand.

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If the Mini-14 was better for the task than an AR, why aren't they used as often for the task? I don't doubt your Mini has been reliable, but the sad truth is far too many Minis are not.

The the wood Mini stock is better suited than the average AR carbine stock for smacking badguys upside the head, a jab with the muzzle is quicker. Popping badguys with a buttstroke takes the muzzle out of line with the threat. Buttstrokes and muzzle jabs are not non lethal. They can kill someone.

MistWolf said:

but the sad truth is far too many Minis are not.

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Really? I know, there are a number of bad magazine designs for them, my ProMag 10-rounder is lucky to feed five without jamming, but there's a fairly solid consensus on PerfectUnion that OEM and some other mags provide clockwork-level of reliability.

On the other hand, I suggest we all respect the OP and concentrate in his question. Unfortunately I can't help much with current AR:s, mine are from 60's to 00's and mostly military issue models, which aren't readily available, cheap or in many cases even legal for civilian possession in the US so I can't be of much assistance - except for general issues like choosing barrel length and so on.

MistWolf said:

...If the Mini-14 was better for the task than an AR, why aren't they used as often for the task?

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Because AR's are generally more popular, even though they are less suited to that particular work.

MistWolf said:

...I don't doubt your Mini has been reliable, but the sad truth is far too many Minis are not.

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Link?

That is neither my experience nor my understanding.

MistWolf said:

...Popping badguys with a buttstroke takes the muzzle out of line with the threat. Buttstrokes and muzzle jabs are not non lethal. They can kill someone.

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It is decidedly less likely to be lethal than pumping a coupla 55 gr. high velocity rounds into them.

A Jury - would probably agree.




GR

hq said:

Really? my ProMag 10-rounder is lucky to feed five without jamming

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I call them ProJams and use them for malf drills because they are so reliably unreliable. Also, I have known a few Mini's that were prone to certain issues. Feeding problems, light primer strikes. I had a Mini 30 that would literally only cycle and fire reliably with Prvi ammo. Everything else I tried proved to have issues

Garandimal said:

It is decidedly less likely to be lethal than pumping a coupla 55 gr. high velocity rounds into them.

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Less lethal, yes. Non lethal, no.

I've talked to several knowledgeable people with years of hands on experience with a wide variety of firearms. They have firm reasons why the Mini isn't chosen for self defense, one of them is overall reliability and long term durability. After the experiences I've had, including owning a Mini 14 & 30, I agree. Minis are fun, but...