GLOCK G36 - Or, When Did a .45 ACP 1911-A1 Stop Being Good Enough For SD?

Its not that the 1911 isnt good enough for civilain SD, but LE departments have always been scared of single- action triggers for liability reasons.

Garandimal said:

When did a .45 ACP 1911-A1 stop being good enough for SD?​

And, therefore, why is the G36 .45 ACP such a bastard child?
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For me, the 1911's stopped being a viable gun for a couple of reasons. Finding one that worked 100% out of the box and didnt need fiddling or "something" to make them acceptable was the biggest issue.

Things like SIG, and then Glock put an end to them back around the turn of the century for me.

The 36 was surpassed by the 30/30S. Why bother with the 36, when you can have a 30/30S, with more capacity and also use 21 mags in the gun?

I figured out a while back, that while 45 was OK, other things, and moving on, just made more sense. I still have and shoot a bunch of 45's on a regular basis, but I havent carried one since I switched from a P220 to a P226/P229 in 357SIG about 15 years ago.

I just got rid of my 21. Still have a 30S, but its next up for sale or trade, when I see the next something I just gotta have.

I've owned a Glock 36 - couple times.
The frame being cut short requiring an oversize mag base makes no sense (no flush fit mags), why not have frame same length as a 19/23.
Grip on 36 has weird (different) feel than other Glocks.
The Glock 30SF holds 9 in flush mag, 10 with mag base.
If 7 total rounds of 45 is "good" then 10 or 11 total rounds of 45 in pistol is "better".
30 > 36

Garandimal said:

Because that's what you get with the G36 and 230 gr. +P HP ammo.

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Seven (6+1) rounds of 860 fps/ 400 lb-ft subsonic .45 ACP., in a magazine-fed pistol.

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But you get that in a pistol that weighs only ~ 27.5 oz. loaded, as opposed to the 1911-A1's ~ 44.25.

~ 60% lighter, or just one oz. over of the loaded 10-round GLOCK G26 9mm Para's ~ 26.5.

And while the grip is a shade longer than the G26 9mm, the G36 .45 ACP shares the same slide width of ~ 1.0", and then maintains that dimension all the way down the slab-sided frame, so it's thinner and more comfortable to carry.

And the G36 .45 ACP is still a GLOCK. Simple, Very accurate, and extremely reliable.

So, if you possess the marksmanship skills to shoot a light-weight, 400 lb-ft pistol accurately and effectively...

- G36/ .45 ACP/ 230 gr. ball -
(10 yards/ 5 rounds/ 5 sec. from low ready/ Strong hand only)
View attachment 883073​

...in an SD environment where, statistically, shooting more than seven rounds rivals those of becoming a Highway Fatality that same year?

When did a .45 ACP 1911-A1 stop being good enough for SD?​

And, therefore, why is the G36 .45 ACP such a bastard child?

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GR

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I would say because most shoot the G30 better. You are in a very small minority that can shoot the FBI Qualification Course in the same time with the G36 as a steel 1911 (You did insinuate they were identical).

I prefer the .45 Shield but in my case it has very little in common with a Steel 1911.

A GI 1911 with 7 round magazine, 8 lb trigger, with FMJ is still an adequate self defense tool in the hands of an adult male. It is just not the best option out there. They always had a good reputation for killing people at close range.

Garandimal said:

But you get that in a pistol that weighs only ~ 27.5 oz. loaded, as opposed to the 1911-A1's ~ 44.25.

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Why not compare a LW Officers model? @ at about 6.5 oz heavier?

Garandimal said:

And, therefore, why is the G36 .45 ACP such a bastard child?

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Cause other companies didn't waste the space to get the same results. They missed the mark, period.

I had a 36, and it didnt grow on me. I like my Shield much better. Fits my hand and already came with steel sights. Plus it was about 150 bucks cheaper and most sporting good stores have. 45 Shield mags. I've never seen a 36 mag in the wild.

When I go full size, I go 1911. Its not about capacity since I can carry 7+1. Its accuracy and follow up shots. That said, the Shield is IWB as I type with just the 6 round mag and one in the pipe.

Fiv3r said:

the Shield is IWB as I type with just the 6 round mag and one in the pipe.

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That me, 6+1 with 2x7 Backup Mags.

Nothing wrong with 45 but I'd take a 45 Shield or a 30 over a 36.

Garandimal said:

When did a .45 ACP 1911-A1 stop being good enough for SD?
And, therefore, why is the G36 .45 ACP such a bastard child?​

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I went from an Officers ACP to a Glock 36 After the slide broke for the second time. I just thought it might not run when I needed it. My 36 was very Glock like, reliability wise. And at least as accurate as my Colt. Probably more so with its favorite load. 185 grain XTP’s.

So why don’t I have it anymore? I put it next to my G19 one day and realized that they were basically the same size. Not exactly, (yes, I know the grip is thicker on the 19) but close enough for me. Traded it straight up for a G17. The G17 would make a better comparison to your Government model 1911.

Red headed stepchild, maybe. But not a bastard at all.

The G36 developed a reputation for being less reliable than the other Glocks early on. I can't say if there is any truth to that, or if it were internet myth, but the reputation was out there and that hurt sales. The SLIGHTLY thicker G30 was always viewed as more reliable and able to accept 9, 10, or even 13 round mags in a gun not much bigger than the G36.

The 45 and 1911 are both as good as ever, better actually, but that isn't saying much. Both the 1911 and 45 ACP's legendary status is more hyperbole than fact. The 9mm round has always been the equal of 45 and given the option of buying a 9mm that holds 15 rounds in the same size/weight gun, or a 7-10 round 9mm in a gun 1/2 the size/weight of a 1911 or G36 I'll choose the 9mm every time.

I own several 1911's and a G21 in 45 ACP. I like them quite a bit and have no doubts they would get the job done if necessary. But they offer me no advantages over my 9mm pistols, and if I need more power than 9mm I'll skip straight to 10mm.

CDW4ME said:

I've owned a Glock 36 - couple times.
The frame being cut short requiring an oversize mag base makes no sense (no flush fit mags), why not have frame same length as a 19/23.
Grip on 36 has weird (different) feel than other Glocks.
The Glock 30SF holds 9 in flush mag, 10 with mag base.
If 7 total rounds of 45 is "good" then 10 or 11 total rounds of 45 in pistol is "better".
30 > 36

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Agree, the hybrid compact/subcompact mag does not work for me.

Especially when a lightweight compact 1911(or CCO preferably) isn't that much bigger/heavier and holds 7+1. Between the 36 and a Kimber Ultra carry I never noticed any difference in weight on the belt and the rounded slide and with thin grip panels I found it printed less than the Glock (not by much, mind you) for me.

Ultimately I dislike guns that small and light (also included is the Sig P245) in .45 ACP as I dislike the extra muzzle rise I get and the resultant reduction in speed on drills vs something like a steel frame Commander, which still conceals very easy.

I finally moved on from my last small .45, a Kimber Ultra Carry, this past summer after spending a lot of time experimenting with loads, grips, whatever, to bring it to the level I wanted.

The one that I'm kind of interested in is the Ruger SR1911 compact that's steel frame, I keep encouraging a relative (who wants one bad anyway) to pick one up so I can try it out, think I even still have a holster kicking around somewhere for it.

For .45 I need weight, so I like the steel frame 1911, Glock 21 and the Sig P220

jmr40 said:

The 9mm round has always been the equal of 45...

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Amazing statement. Truly amazing.

Dave

Garandimal said:

Well...

I have G23.4 .40 compacts, with the "full grip," and they don't carry anywhere near as well.

It's fatter in the frame, and the extra weight of the extra rounds are out in the end of the fatter grip, causing it to want to flop around with activity.

And the "knob" on the magazine has a few endearing features, not including aesthetics.

- It allows for a thinner, shorter grip, that you can still get three fingers on, but fairs much better for CC/IWB 4:00 carry.
- It acts as an anchor and greatly aids tactical reloading, which is a valuable skill when considering any 6+1 capacity magazine-fed pistol.

.45 ACP magazine capacity that gives you an ~ statistical 1:10,000 odds of needing to reload to stop the SD threat, with thin, quickly changed and easily carried mags if you happen to hit the lottery and actually need to?

As for .45 ACP - talk to trauma surgeons and see if they can tell the difference between a 9mm wound and a .45 ACP.

My research says that they most certainly can.


So the G36 not the absolute lightest, or the absolute thinnest - but it's considerably lighter and thinner than both the G30/G30s.

And the 3.8" polygon rifled Bbl. gives better performance than the 3.3" Shield .45.

As for reliability?

Have two, and shoot with another three regularly, and All have been every bit 100% reliable as all my G23 Gen2 and Gen4's.

100%.

So it's my choice.

YMMV.




GR

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I'm always leary of anecdotal evidence.

For instance I've had people that work at the morgue tell me they can often tell .45 victims when they come in. They are the ones with fewer holes in them.

I would have a G36 but I held it one time and said nope. Just a weird grip that doesn’t work for me at all. I’m good with my g30, g21, g19, g22, and g43x. I would definitely carry a 43x before the 36.

I sold off all my 1911s in favor of the P220. Then sold them off and kept the G21s and G30. The G36 I had was great but my former marine EOD son-in-law wanted it more than me. He recently told me he bought a G19 and said shot placement matters most. I would agree.

M

Everyone who has a favorite, has a story, about a story, about how great and how much more superior they are......

I think the reality is still, if you hit them where they need to be hit, with any of them, they will all work the same. If you miss those same key spots with any of them, youre likely to have the same negative result.

What it really comes down to, and always has, is what "you" can "really" do with what you have. And you have to be brutally realistic and honest with yourself about that too. If you arent, youre only fooling yourself.

If you can draw what you carry, from how you carry iy, and hit those small but important spots of the human anatomy, to the best of your ability, under stress, while youre moving, theyre moving, and sustain that until you get'er done, youre golden.

Im willing to bet too, that if you can shoot that 45 so great, you can shoot the same model or a similar gun in 9mm just that much better. I know, because Ive been there and got over the LDS crap.

If you think thats BS, thats fine, but youre really just fooling yourself if you think the 45 or any of them for that matter, are some sort of magic talisman, thats going to save you, and/or make up for your lack of skill. Its not. Skill trumps caliber, every time.

I think too many people buy into all the silly overinflated BS stories you hear over your lifetime, about this gun and that caliber, and most dont get any kind of decent training and then practice what theyve learned on a regular basis, enough to be even mildly competent with what they have. And why should they have to? They have a wonder gun in a wonder caliber, that will save the day.

By all means, carry what you want and what you like, its certainly your choice, and youre the only one who really knows what will "really" work best for them. Assuming you are basing that on reality, and not "stories".

Dang! That was close! He almost hit me in the pinky! Id of been a goner for sure!