500 s&w loads overpressure?

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gotboostvr said:
I think so, I don't have any hard evidence though.

I've split more cases in 357mag with heavily roll crimped lead boolits which I don't push as hard as similarly weighted jacketed bullets with less of a crimp. I believe it's over working the elasticity of the brass.
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I would think it would need a place for the crack to propagate from, I've split old 357 cases, the 454 cases I've split have all been starline, I have some federal cases that have taken 8-10 loading of full power ( h110 with 360 grain cast ) with no issues . odd.
 
Roll crimps in general work the brass harder so it's a point of high stress. So yes, roll crimps can shorten the life of the brass due to splits. Now if you were to setup and anneal the necks you may get a little more reloads before failure. I'm for one is not going to anneal small handgun brass.
 
Aannddrreeww said:
There is no printed load data for this bullet so i contacted lehigh, the manufacturer, and they told me i could use data for jacketed bullets of the same weight, just back it off .2 grains. 17.8 grains would be the max load according to the lyman book.
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Did you take into account that your solid copper projectile is more than one tenth(.100") longer than the Lyman flat point? What oal did you load to?
 
I've decided to just go with the Barnes 375 grain xpb bullets and forget about the Lehigh bullets. Too many unknowns. At least there's load data for the Barnes.

Thanks to everyone for your helpful responses.
 
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Aannddrreeww said:
I've decided to just go with the Barnes 375 grain xpb bullets and forget about the Lehigh bullets. Too many unknowns. At least there's load data for the Barnes.

Thanks to everyone for your helpful responses.
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I wouldn't give up on the 400 grainer just yet. You've already had a good test of extreme pressure so why not get a more forgiving (slower) powder and work up from a minimum charge. AA #9, Alliant 2400 or even Hodgdon Longshot or H110 would give you the velocity that Unique gave you, just at a much lower pressure.
 
BC17A said:
I wouldn't give up on the 400 grainer just yet. You've already had a good test of extreme pressure so why not get a more forgiving (slower) powder and work up from a minimum charge. AA #9, Alliant 2400 or even Hodgdon Longshot or H110 would give you the velocity that Unique gave you, just at a much lower pressure.
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I wasn't going to mention it before, but I was thinking 2400 or AA9 would be good choices. I know 2400 is pretty forgiving, and I understand that AA9 is similar to it.
 
BC17A said:
I wouldn't give up on the 400 grainer just yet. You've already had a good test of extreme pressure so why not get a more forgiving (slower) powder and work up from a minimum charge. AA #9, Alliant 2400 or even Hodgdon Longshot or H110 would give you the velocity that Unique gave you, just at a much lower pressure.
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Which powder do you think would work better in a 3" barrel?
 
The Lyman manual shows a max of 18.0gr Unique under a Sierra 400gr. It's only showing 1300fps out of a 10" test barrel. So I really don't think there's anything wrong with your load. The .500S&W runs at 60,000psi and is proofed ta 86,500psi. So I would completely dismiss the idea that this load is too much for the gun.

I am also of the Linebaugh school of thought that so-called pressure signs are not applicable to straightwall revolver cartridges. The idea that sticky extraction or flattened primers is a sign of over-pressure is a rifle concept. Revolvers have been tested to destruction and showed no "pressure signs" right up until they blew. Follow and trust your data, verify with a chronograph. Forget pressure signs.

The .500S&W runs at 60,000psi and is proofed at 86,500psi. So I would completely dismiss the idea that this load is too much for the gun.

Unique is not commonly used in this cartridge but is only the wrong powder if it's not giving you the velocity you want.
 
Aannddrreeww said:
Which powder do you think would work better in a 3" barrel?
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2400 for magnum loads, Longshot for mid range loads. If you really want to have some light plinking fun with your cast 440s get some Trail Boss and forget about load data.
 
CraigC said:
The Lyman manual shows a max of 18.0gr Unique under a Sierra 400gr. It's only showing 1300fps out of a 10" test barrel. So I really don't think there's anything wrong with your load. The .500S&W runs at 60,000psi and is proofed ta 86,500psi. So I would completely dismiss the idea that this load is too much for the gun.

I am also of the Linebaugh school of thought that so-called pressure signs are not applicable to straightwall revolver cartridges. The idea that sticky extraction or flattened primers is a The Lyman manual shows a max of 18.0gr Unique under a Sierra 400gr. It's only showing 1300fps out of a 10" test barrel. So I really don't think there's anything wrong with your load. The .500S&W runs at 60,000psi and is proofed ta 86,500psi. So I would completely dismiss the idea that this load is too much for the gun.

I am also of the Linebaugh school of thought that so-called pressure signs are not applicable to straightwall revolver cartridges. The idea that sticky extraction or flattened primers is a sign of over-pressure is a rifle concept. Revolvers have been tested to destruction and showed no "pressure signs" right up until they blew. Follow and trust your data, verify with a chronograph. Forget pressure signs.

The .500S&W runs at 60,000psi and is proofed at 86,500psi. So I would completely dismiss the idea that this load is too much for the gun.

Unique is not commonly used in this cartridge but is only the wrong powder if it's not giving you the velocity you want.
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So if you're working up a load with no printed load data, how do you know if you're generating too much pressure in the chamber? What are the signs?
 
CraigC said:
There are no signs. Which is why you be extremely careful with fast to medium burning powders. Doesn't the Lyman book give pressures for the 400gr Sierra loads?
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It does, but the bullet i'm loading is a solid copper of the same weight so it's seated more deeply into the case.
 
CraigC said:
The .500S&W runs at 60,000psi and is proofed ta 86,500psi. So I would completely dismiss the idea that this load is too much for the gun.

I am also of the Linebaugh school of thought that so-called pressure signs are not applicable to straightwall revolver cartridges. The idea that sticky extraction or flattened primers is a sign of over-pressure is a rifle concept. Revolvers have been tested to destruction and showed no "pressure signs" right up until they blew. Follow and trust your data, verify with a chronograph. Forget pressure signs.
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Wow, this is the first time I've read that sticky cases and other pressure signs are not relevant in straightwall revolver cartridges. o_O
I'll have to read up on the Linebaugh school of thought.
 
sparkyv said:
Wow, this is the first time I've read that sticky cases and other pressure signs are not relevant in straightwall revolver cartridges. o_O
I'll have to read up on the Linebaugh school of thought.
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There are several common causes for sticky extraction and flattened primers that have nothing to do with pressure. I have two guns with a gunsmith now that are exhibiting sticky extraction. One has to have a new cylinder because it was not machined correctly. The other was sticking horribly and blowing primers with factory ammo and published handloads.
 
sparkyv said:
I agree, Blue68f100. This activity is NOT for the faint of heart. Only the most experienced at annealing should consider this! :eek:
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Personally I'm not worried about a split neck , I have 2 ...460 magnums at these pressure levels I am more worried about case failure........that is why I use extreme caution And will scrap the cases after 3 loadings .....
Craig is right about the signs , ......But one day while shooting my 460 mag I received a sign from the extreme pressure gods and my lucky stars from above.......a case failure , it sheared in half in the middle , a perfect circle....that's why I love my 44 mags so much you can play on pretty much any level you want , without the extreme pressure of the 460 and 500 magnums , I shoot the 44's twice a month compared to the 460's twice a year.......just my two cents .......take care......B B....
 
CraigC said:
There are several common causes for sticky extraction and flattened primers that have nothing to do with pressure. I have two guns with a gunsmith now that are exhibiting sticky extraction. One has to have a new cylinder because it was not machined correctly. The other was sticking horribly and blowing primers with factory ammo and published handloads.
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So with known loads, you have sticky extraction. But you know the loads aren't over pressure?

Does that therefore mean that sticky extraction and flattened primers are not an indication that a load is over pressure? That they should be ignored as possible signs of an over pressured load?
 
WrongHanded said:
So with known loads, you have sticky extraction. But you know the loads aren't over pressure?

Does that therefore mean that sticky extraction and flattened primers are not an indication that a load is over pressure? That they should be ignored as possible signs of an over pressured load?
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The problem is not getting false alarms. The problem is NOT seeing pressure signs when the loads are grossly over maximum.


So at 18.0gr it's 16,000psi under max and half the pressure of a proof load.
 
CraigC said:
So at 18.0gr it's 16,000psi under max and half the pressure of a proof load.
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According to the rough calculation I just did, a 400gr copper bullet, is about the volume of a 500gr lead bullet.

There are a lot of variables to consider here, and I wouldn't want to make any guesses at what pressures 18.0gr of Unique would get with the Lehigh 400gr WFN copper bullet.

If it were my gun, I'd be tempted to take some measurements and work up a load with a slower burning powder.
 
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