Lee Expander die vs Cop die on Hornady LnL AP

Crazy Horse · Jan 20, 2020

lordpaxman said:
”The one issue I encountered is that the press would not consistently drop the primers on the plate-on every pull- but I'm hoping it was because either the amount of primers was too light (10 primers, but used the fiber glass weight), or because it was so new.“
Make sure the primers opening is “centered” in the drop hole on the primer slide. Best way I’ve found to do that is unscrew the primer tube, no primers in it, and advance the ram all the way up. The primer slide should be retracted and you can visually see if the primers/primer tube is centered in the primer slide hole. There’s a slight adjustment that can move the primer slide slightly. In my case I had to enlarge the adjustment hold just a bit to get a tad more play. Large primers are a bit more difficult for mine, but once adjusted and locked down works just fine.
I also run the PTX with the powder measure stop, it’s a bit to get adjusted properly but again once it’s done, you don’t have to worry about it. I use the RCBS Lock out die, and would recommend it highly. It’ll detect a low or high powder throw and lock the press, you don’t need to watch it at all. I visually inspect each case before seating a bullet, but, once in a while I’ll catch myself zoning. The lock out die is an added measure of safety.
Good luck!

THX. I looked on youtube and Highboy had a video that specifically addressed the primer issue. I adjusted it as he recommended following the video. It corrected the problem. I'm glad I ran into his videos as they have been extremely informative and super helpful.

Here's the video link that addresses the primer issue and fix.

Dudedog · Jan 20, 2020

For pistol I really prefer the RCBS lockout die over the powder cop, no need to watch it.
https://ultimatereloader.com/2010/09/19/rcbs-lock-out-die-part-i-theory-of-operation/

My LNL set up is a bit odd but for what it's worth (doing 9mm)

Pass 1
Deprime/resize
Expand/flair case Lyman M die

I could expand when dropping powder but since I am making 2 passes might as well do it here

Wet tumble with pins

Hand prime while watching the tube. (primed up 1000s watching football-wear safety glasses!)

Pass 2 Loading
1 Powder drop, LNL measure or Lee Autodrum
2 RCBS lockout die
3 Hornady Bullet feeder
4 Hornady seater
5 Lee FCD

For .45
replace 2 with Hornady Lockout die (Thanks Tightgroup Tiger

)
5 may or may not use the FCD

If you get the PTX in the powder measure setup right you don't need a separate die to expand

RealGun · Jan 21, 2020

Texas10mm said:
Here's how I set up the LNL AP.

1. Resize and deprime
2. Power measure with PTX
3. RCBS Lock-Out die
4. Bullet seating
5. Crimp

Also if you're loading lead bullets then get this part http://www.uniquetek.com/product/T1580 It's head and shoulders above the Hornady PTX.

That link doesn't show or explain how it is "optimized" nor mention precise diameters to imply answers to questions about using lead bullets. They apparently believe the world is shooting only semi-autos, and no, the same diameter will not serve both 9mm and .357-.358. They refer to ".38", but that is not the actual diameter of the bullets nor the bore.

jmorris · Jan 21, 2020

If you like the Lee expander/powder die, just use one of their measures on top.

If you don’t want to mess with their ball chain failsafe, you can use a spring but you need to be certain to watch your powder check.

That brings me to the thing I don’t like about the “must be looking” powder checks, if you are keeping your eye on the powder in the case and miss a squib or double, how will a visual powder check be any good?

If you choose to rely on your eyeball, you don’t need to use up a station doing so, just strategically place a mirror and light. So you can see inside the case from your comfortable reloading position.

That spring behind the mirror is an example of how to return the measure without the chain, again it makes the possibility of a double, if the operator makes an incomplete stroke, backs up and goes forward again.

Kaldor · Jan 21, 2020

Crazy Horse said:
Hello,

I just purchased a Hornady LnL AP. My previous press was Lyman American 8. I love the Lyman, but for pistol rounds, Keeping up with my shooting frequency was getting difficult. I know the turret press is seen as a hybrid between a single stage press and a full progressive press. So, after research I decided on the Hornady LnL.

I was setting up the press and purchased a Hornady powder cop die after watching the Brownell's setup video. I use Lee carbide dies and love the cost simplicity and accuracy Lee dies offer.

Because I use the Lee powder through expander die when reloading on my Lyman, I though the powder measure and case activated powder drop from Hornady expanded the case before seating as well. This is not the case.

I then put the Lee expander die after the powder drop to expand the case before seating. Two youtube videos have the powder cop die after the powder drop. My dilemma is that I can only have the expander die or powder cop die in the press. Of course, with the Lee 4 die set, I have the seater die and a seperate taper crimp die.

I purchased the Hornady PTX expander last night. I believe this part goes inside the case activated powder drop so that It drops powder and expands the die in one motion.

In the meantime, I wanted to try the press. Can anyone provide a recommendation on the best way to setup the press? I have the Lee 4 die set (1. deprimer&resize, 2. Expander, 3. Seat, 4. Crimp). From Hornady I have the powder cop die. Should I forego the Powder Cop die and use the expander die? Or, would it be better to forego the taper crimp die and setup the seating die to crimp at the same time (I'm used to seating then crimping, but I've read that you can seat and crimp with the same die)? If that is better, what are the steps?

Thanks in advance for any help as I don't of anyone that reloads in my area, and while I have experience reloading it can be difficult when working with a new press, Youtube helps only so much as getting pics of certain steps isn't always focused on in video.

Ive had mine setup 2 different ways, with a bullet feeder and without. I use a mix of dies from Hornady, Lyman, Lee and DAA.

Without bullet feeder:
Station 1: Size and deprime - Hornady
Station 2: Lyman M-die (expander)
Station 3: Hornady powder drop (no PTX)
Station 4: Hornady seater
Station 5: Lee FCD

With bullet feeder:
Station 1: Size and deprime - Hornady
Station 2: Hornady powder drop with RCBS PTX
Station 3: DAA bullet feeder
Station 4: Hornady seater
Station 5: Lee FCD

I prefer the Lyman M-die and the RCBS PTX for a much more than the standard expanders as they are the stepped variety and flare the case much more gradually. I do not use a COP or Lock out die, as I just train myself to manually verify with my Mark 1 Eyeball that there is a charge in the case before pulling the handle again.

Crazy Horse · Jan 21, 2020

jmorris,

I'm not partial to the Lee powder through expander, I was just trying to save some money (use the Lee expander vs purchasing a PTX) and free up a station for the Powder Cop.

Right now I'm using the Lee expander prior to dropping the powder. Once I receive the powder funnel for use on the Hornady powder drop, I can free up a station and use the powder cop.

I could eliminate the taper crimp die instead, but I like having that die vs using the seating die to crimp. Also, I'm not as familiar/comfortable with seating and crimping (taper) using the Lee die (taper vs roll crimp)

GW Staar · Jan 21, 2020

When I was in your shoes more than a few years ago, I tried using the Lee powder thru expander by itself in station two. Uniflow powder measure was in station 3.....and it wasn't compatible. The flare the expander made was too wide and the case wouldn't go into the powder die.

........so I bought the Hornady linkage and a PTX and replaced the RCBS linkage and it worked like a charm. Fast forward, RCBS finally listened to their customers and made their own PTX's. I like them even better with their "M" style step.....and now it appears that you have two sources of stepped Hornady style PTX's.....and you don't have to screw around with Lees Powder thru expander or the Powder measure that works with it, or use RCBS's stepped PTX. Like I said earlier you are good to go.

Before I got the bug to build video powder cops, I used a mirror just like jmorris's picture.....works great, you just need lots of light. My imperfectness prefers that big monitor in my face to keep me from not looking.....I know my weaknesses! You and jmorris probably don't have that problem.

Above on the old Pro 2000, and now below....room for a dedicated powder cop station on the Pro Chucker 7.....spoiled rotten.....

Crazy Horse · Jan 21, 2020

THX. I was wondering why some folks used a camera/video.

Since I purchased and have the Hornady powder cop (purchased it late at night before reading the comments on Hornady vs RCBS), I'll be installing it when I get the powder funnel. I didn't have a powder check when using the turret reloader, so I'd like to start with it to develop a routine. As it is, I found myself just doing one round on the shell plate every 5 pulls...… But that was a test run to test the press, the accuracy of the powder drop, the die settings, and the priming system. It all worked out really well minus the priming system, but I got that worked out. It was still really quick compared to my turret press. I can see why/how many folks move to a progressive after awhile.

Imperfectness. LoL. If you mean your eyes, the eye doc says the elasticity on my eyes is not what it used to be. So I'm now using cheaters. I still try to play it off, but my kids laugh when I put on glasses or have them read something in low light conditions.

GW Staar · Jan 21, 2020

Crazy Horse said:
THX. I was wondering why some folks used a camera/video.

Imperfectness. LoL. If you mean your eyes, the eye doc says the elasticity on my eyes is not what it used to be. So I'm now using cheaters. I still try to play it off, but my kids laugh when I put on glasses or have them read something in low light conditions.

I have that too....comes with the 70 years of wearing out, but I'm even more imperfect.....

As you will quickly find out, there's a lot going on at once using a progressive. Youngness helps one keep it sorted out and keeps you from forgetting steps.....especially when you are on a run, cranking them babies out. I could tend to not notice an empty case fly by unless it's in my face screaming.

Lockouts are nice....if you have room....but boy what a jolting stop!

When I started on my Pro 2000, I thought hey! I don't need those case feeders and bullet feeders. Eventually (a few months) I changed my mind.....still think it's an age thing. Any way, without them, after each pull of the handle, you have to place a case, place a bullet, make sure primers haven't run out, make sure powder is still dropping and/or not run out. (powder bridging on some powders is real). All that and more.....like a case that wasn't deprimed first, or the pocket swaged....that'll get your attention....another jolting stop.

The first thing I ran into was demonstrating my press to a friend.....remember my press was the Pro 2000 with APS strip primers....you may have already guessed it. The first 50 went like lightning....until my friend picked up one of the last rounds and powder poured out the bottom.

Adding strips takes half a second, unloading 25 rounds takes considerable more time.

So I started thinking I needed to lessen the steps to remember and I bought a Hornady Bullet Feeder. Why the bullet feeder first? Simple. Pushing cases in is less dangerous to fingers than fitting bullets and keeping them upright while cranking the shell plate at speed......and you think I didn't have a hard time watching the damn mirror?

......and don't discount the lazy factor the older you get.... I'm a lover of feeders now...heck even Lee shakers are worth it.

greyling22 · Jan 21, 2020

I run the Dillon 650 with lee dies rather than the Hornady, but the principles still apply: lock nut under the toolhead on some dies. Lee auto drum with powder through die, some calibers get the factory crimp die, some don't. I've never had a use for a powder cop die. I don't run stick powders or large flake powders on my progressive and it works fine. As far as keeping the powder hopper full, well, it's literally see through and right in front of my face. And it takes forever to empty it at 5 grains a drop. I just fill it at the start of every session, and glande at it every time I reload primers. It's not hard to keep track of. I had a much harder problem making sure I had primers before I got a press with a low primer warning.

Lee Expander die vs Cop die on Hornady LnL AP

Crazy Horse

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Crazy Horse

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