Over 30 Florida local governments sue state, seek ability to regulate firearms

Yup, and notice they only do so after the laws that provide punishment--including removal from office--for ignoring the statutes that limit cities from trying.

Part of the hullaballoo over this has stemmed from the actions of "open-carry advocates", particularly in left-leaning areas such as West Palm Beach and in Palm Beach. Several of these folks have taken to fishing off the piers with AR-type rifles slung over their shoulders in the downtown areas. While this is totally legal under Florida law*, the desired effect of "de-sensitizing" the public to the idea of seeing firearms carried openly isn't what's actually taking place. I'm all for open-carry being legal, regardless of whether or not I would practice it, but these folks had to know what the pushback would be, especially in West Palm Beach. I have no use for these people and their chosen tactics.

* Florida law prohibits open-carry in general, but allows for the possession of firearms, with or without a CWFL, while involved in a lawful camping, fishing, hunting, or shooting activity, or while in direct transit to or from such an activity.

ETA: The mere mention of "open-carry" in this thread is not intended to turn the thread into a discussion on the prudence of open-carry in general.

our agricultural commissioner has officially shown her stance. I didnt vote for her and I'll make sure to vote against her until shes gone.

MedWheeler said:

Part of the hullaballoo over this has stemmed from the actions of "open-carry advocates", particularly in left-leaning areas such as West Palm Beach and in Palm Beach. Several of these folks have taken to fishing off the piers with AR-type rifles slung over their shoulders in the downtown areas. While this is totally legal under Florida law*, the desired effect of "de-sensitizing" the public to the idea of seeing firearms carried openly isn't what's actually taking place. I'm all for open-carry being legal, regardless of whether or not I would practice it, but these folks had to know what the pushback would be, especially in West Palm Beach. I have no use for these people and their chosen tactics.

* Florida law prohibits open-carry in general, but allows for the possession of firearms, with or without a CWFL, while involved in a lawful camping, fishing, hunting, or shooting activity, or while in direct transit to or from such an activity.

ETA: The mere mention of "open-carry" in this thread is not intended to turn the thread into a discussion on the prudence of open-carry in general.

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If we only have our rights because no one has noticed and tried to take them away then we don't have them. We need to force the fight and win, before the tide of demographics erases gun culture. Where do new shooters come from? Maybe they come from edgy teenagers who see a guy with an AR-15 fishing off a pier and think "huh, you can do that? Maybe I need a gun"

Gun people who think hiding their guns, hiding their enthusiam, are helping are deluded. When the only exposure to a gun you've ever had is a mass shooting OF COURSE you're anti gun. When you see a crazy old man fishing with an AR-15 it makes you think. In the case of the Antis in Florida I hope they get beaten on this and everyone in the whole state learns that YES YOU CAN fish with an AR-15, and if you don't like it you can get bent. They're currently so sensitized that the mere sight of an AR-15 while fishing has them trying to sue the state. Once they lose they'll think "eh, I guess you can do whatever".

If we wait any longer we won't have a chance of winning the fight in an open contest and then we'll see the slow erosion tactics that have been sweeping the nation with magazine limits, etc eventually erasing our rights and culture. We must fight now and we must embrace the struggle. Our odds of winning don't go up with time, they go down. If we lose today we damn sure were gonna lose worse tomorrow.

They are just frightened individuals who see the courts going the other way and know that soon the new norm will be open carry everywhere. This has them doing their "but think of the children" dance again. It isn't about reality its about feelings. That and the fact they fear everything!

sequins said:

If we only have our rights because no one has noticed and tried to take them away then we don't have them. We need to force the fight and win, before the tide of demographics erases gun culture. Where do new shooters come from? Maybe they come from edgy teenagers who see a guy with an AR-15 fishing off a pier and think "huh, you can do that? Maybe I need a gun"

Gun people who think hiding their guns, hiding their enthusiam, are helping are deluded. When the only exposure to a gun you've ever had is a mass shooting OF COURSE you're anti gun. When you see a crazy old man fishing with an AR-15 it makes you think. In the case of the Antis in Florida I hope they get beaten on this and everyone in the whole state learns that YES YOU CAN fish with an AR-15, and if you don't like it you can get bent. They're currently so sensitized that the mere sight of an AR-15 while fishing has them trying to sue the state. Once they lose they'll think "eh, I guess you can do whatever".

If we wait any longer we won't have a chance of winning the fight in an open contest and then we'll see the slow erosion tactics that have been sweeping the nation with magazine limits, etc eventually erasing our rights and culture. We must fight now and we must embrace the struggle. Our odds of winning don't go up with time, they go down. If we lose today we damn sure were gonna lose worse tomorrow.

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Open carrying an AR15 in a public place like that is the equivalent to redlining a Harley with straight pipes in front of a park where families are trying to enjoy the quiet. It desensitizes no one, It only makes ALL motorcycle riders look like obnoxious a-holes.

bassjam said:

Open carrying an AR15 in a public place like that is the equivalent to redlining a Harley with straight pipes in front of a park where families are trying to enjoy the quiet. It desensitizes no one, It only makes ALL motorcycle riders look like obnoxious a-holes.

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We only do that around Phelps and his hate mongering church that celebrate our brave service men and women's funerals.

For those not from Florida... this might seem a bit of news that's not worth bothering with.. but.... The current law that prohibits local politicians from making their own rules about second amendment issues was a major step forward for those rights in our state and like many others I was very glad that the state took the anti-s ability to do county by county restrictions on our rights away from those politicians that see a benefit in this sort of stuff..

On the other hand, the few that not only advocate open carry - but go out of their way to be as pushy as possible about it don't have the slightest support from this corner... They're like the young man who gets his first motor, takes the mufflers off of it -then can't understand why his (or her) neighbors are mad at them...

Sure would be a shame if the open carry crowd cost us that current state law (and here in Florida we're always on the edge of going one way or the other politically..). That's the reason that our current politician in charge of the state's Agriculture Department (the only state outfit that handles all of our concealed weapons permits...) made a point of not only winning statewide office but actually coming out in favor of repealing the law that was such a step forward when it passed - not that long ago...

In my opinion - we'll be seeing her running for governor whenever the next opportunity comes around... Hope she's soundly defeated the next time she runs for any statewide office - but like I said we're always a very close to fifty - fifty state every election season. Living down here in the people's republic of Broward I have a very good idea of what "liberal" control of my state's firearms policies would mean...

MedWheeler said:

Part of the hullaballoo over this has stemmed from the actions of "open-carry advocates", particularly in left-leaning areas such as West Palm Beach and in Palm Beach. Several of these folks have taken to fishing off the piers with AR-type rifles slung over their shoulders in the downtown areas. While this is totally legal under Florida law*, the desired effect of "de-sensitizing" the public to the idea of seeing firearms carried openly isn't what's actually taking place. I'm all for open-carry being legal, regardless of whether or not I would practice it, but these folks had to know what the pushback would be, especially in West Palm Beach. I have no use for these people and their chosen tactics.

* Florida law prohibits open-carry in general, but allows for the possession of firearms, with or without a CWFL, while involved in a lawful camping, fishing, hunting, or shooting activity, or while in direct transit to or from such an activity.

ETA: The mere mention of "open-carry" in this thread is not intended to turn the thread into a discussion on the prudence of open-carry in general.

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Agreed but you'd be wasting your time trying to convince these people of the reality of the situation.

So is this an immigration issue? As in relocated east cost libs who want their will be done because of their money?

Years ago in Calif. when the black panthers showed up at the state capital, went up in the rotunda carrying loaded aks and ar 15s.....
only took Ronnie a day or two and that law changed..... no more loaded fire arms on state property.... and it went down hill from there.....
In your face in that situation did not work.... people have a tendency to get scared..... We need to show a legitimate concern for our rights but it does no good and is counter productive when we are perceived as the threat, we only scare people and lose support.

Well said Dirtman...

and no... I doubt it's those pesky northerners moving down here causing the difficulty... There's always been a strong left base in both south Florida and over Tampa way (at least that's been my observation since 1971...). The majority of the folks living in those two areas seem to vote that way each year (and since I've got Debbie Wasserman (what's her name...) as my congresswoman (lucky, lucky me...) here in Broward county I don't expect much else.... The big changes, starting in 2000 (or thereabouts) is the rest of the state coming to its senses and voting pretty conservatively for the most part (please don't mention the president before our current one since Florida like everyone else thought he'd make a great president...).

The place that I'd be watching the most in coming years is the Orlando area (the so-called I-4 corridor...) for future trends in legislation that concerns our 2nd amendment rights...

lemaymiami said:

Well said Dirtman...

and no... I doubt it's those pesky northerners moving down here causing the difficulty...
.

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I don't know about your area but my area the Tampa area and surrounding local coastal cities A LOT of ex New Yorkers are here and they are mostly pro gun, one of the reasons they left there to come here. In my dept at work half the staff are from NY and they are all pro gun, one of which goes to the range with me fairly often.

Deep inside Tampa and St Pete there is a more liberal progressive tendency but that is a more heavy urban vs not situation like many other places have.

bassjam said:

Open carrying an AR15 in a public place like that is the equivalent to redlining a Harley with straight pipes in front of a park where families are trying to enjoy the quiet. It desensitizes no one, It only makes ALL motorcycle riders look like obnoxious a-holes.

Click to expand...

Have to agree with this. It's like someone banging on your door on a early weekend morning wanting to convert you to their religion, it's like ranting off politics in a bar to the person next to you when all they want to do is have a good time and cut loose a bit. Getting in someone's face over something will hardly ever have you win them over.

It's not about hiding your guns, it's about there is a time and place for something and other times to be considerate and use some tact when expressing yourself.

Well said.... I can remember as a very young cop (early seventies) running hot to a "man with a gun" call in my town... This was long, long before the "open carry" movement and had my heart rate pumping along until we found someone carrying a BB gun in a residential area... Down here in paradise (Dade county where Miami is...) that call could very easily have been something much more serious. That's why I'm no supporter of the "open carry" movement (or fad - or whatever you call it...). As a general principle I always tried not to scare folks as a cop - that bears remembering for those that advocate open carry....

By the way in my experience the most dangerous thing that any young cop faces is never gunfire - it's what could happen to you running lights and siren in heavy traffic....

lemaymiami said:

Well said.... I can remember as a very young cop (early seventies) running hot to a "man with a gun" call in my town... This was long, long before the "open carry" movement and had my heart rate pumping along until we found someone carrying a BB gun in a residential area... Down here in paradise (Dade county where Miami is...) that call could very easily have been something much more serious. That's why I'm no supporter of the "open carry" movement (or fad - or whatever you call it...). As a general principle I always tried not to scare folks as a cop - that bears remembering for those that advocate open carry....

By the way in my experience the most dangerous thing that any young cop faces is never gunfire - it's what could happen to you running lights and siren in heavy traffic....

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I'm curious if you happen to remember; was it a kid, teenager, or adult carrying the bb gun? When I was between the ages of 10-14 I doubt I left my house very often without a bb gun or pellet gun in my hands.

leymaymiami writes:

I can remember as a very young cop (early seventies) running hot to a "man with a gun" call in my town...

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As do I, when I worked north of you (though a bit later.) The way it should be is how it typically is in places like Vermont, where the 911 call-taker asks the caller a followup question along the lines of "Is he doing anything wrong?" before sending anyone out. In most cases, the call-taker will advise the caller that the simple carrying of a firearm is legal. If they even send a unit, the officer(s) will also provide that information once they determine that nothing else was going on.

But, yes, we'll never see that in Florida. Hopefully, we'll never see anything worse than the current. The guys I mentioned above in West Palm Beach might have drawn less hostility if they'd started out easily, maybe with a few wood-handled six-shooters strapped on in the beginning.

No places anywhere that I worked that weren't urban or built up suburban - so no legit hunting type reason to be carrying that bb gun (I was my local small game terror with a Benjamin .22 pellet rifle as a teenager - but I had miles and miles of uninhabited fields and woods right out my back door - since we were living on Redstone Arsenal at the time...).

Back to that "man with a gun" call - the guy with the bb gun probably needed help crossing the street - but at the time wasn't doing anything wrong - except being in a residential area where most folks wouldn't know the difference between a bb gun and something more dangerous by looking at it... Remember most aren't knowledgable about firearms - of any kind around the big city... Out in the country side it's a completely different deal...

To further elaborate - here's the difference I noticed as a country boy working in south Florida... Late at night we'd get calls that a homeowner heard something suspicious in or around his (or her) house and they wanted us there double quick... In the world I grew up in a homeowner might make a call - but only well after they'd armed themselves and done a bit of looking to see just what was going down... It sure seemed to me that we'd succeeded in breeding the manhood out of "urban man" but that's just my opinion... Anyone fooling around someone's house out in the countryside is probably making a very bad mistake...