Do I have to make it into an SBR?

I say pay the $200 if it's questionable.
It would be like any form 1 gun, don't turn it into an nfa gun till you have the tax stamp back, which for you would be engraving your name and place of manufacturing.
Then you could put a forward grip on it, or turn it into a rifle with the tax stamp as long as you put a range of barrel lengths and overall lengths on there.
I'm sure they have had people nfa some of these kinds of guns by now.

Nuclear said:

So my tentative plan is to submit the paperwork to turn the pistol into an SBR, and once I get the tax stamp, just bide my time until I legally need (or want) to engrave the pistol, thus "making" it an SBR.
[...]
Is my understanding correct that it isn't an SBR until it gets engraved post tax stamp?

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No, it’s not an SBR until it’s assembled as an SBR, meaning it has a stock and also a barrel less than 16” (or an overall length less than 26”). If it’s assembled as an SBR before the tax stamp comes back and before it’s engraved, it’s an illegal SBR. And engraving a firearm doesn’t make it into an SBR, it just makes it into a firearm that now has some extra engraving on it. Remember, SBRs are only SBRs when assembled as such. Otherwise, they’re just normal Title I rifles or pistols (depending on the configuration) even if they’re engraved and you have an approved tax stamp.

Nuclear said:

So my question to the really knowledgeable people on this sub-forum is, if I have the tax stamp, is there some time limit?

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There’s no time limit. But if you wait a while before assembling your SBR make sure no laws have changed in the meantime without you noticing.

Remember that you can engrave your name and address on the barrel instead of the lower receiver. This would be helpful if you ever wanted to reconvert it to a Title 1 firearm. Title 1 firearms with somebody's name engraved on them have little resale value.

AlexanderA said:

Remember that you can engrave your name and address on the barrel instead of the lower receiver. This would be helpful if you ever wanted to reconvert it to a Title 1 firearm. Title 1 firearms with somebody's name engraved on them have little resale value.

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That’s what I did with my Colt lower SBR, but when I eventually register another lower I’m just going to use a poverty pony and engrave it. My barrels are more expensive than an Anderson receiver anyway.

Can you legally engrave your initials as your name on the gun or does first and last name have to be spelled out. I ask because me initials are SBR.

Just take the brace off (and divest yourself of it) put a foam cover on the tube, and get a single point sling and adjust it so it provides tension when held out, if braces become verboten.

Saves all that wondering when to do as you propose.

ANATION said:

Can you legally engrave your initials as your name on the gun or does first and last name have to be spelled out. I ask because me initials are SBR.

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You can engrave anything you want on a gun.......but the marking requirements for makers of NFA firearms are specific.
From the instructions on the Form 1:
(7) Markings: The maker is required to mark the firearm with the maker’s name, city and state as shown in item 3b. All markings are to be in compliance with 27 CFR 478.92 and 479.102.

If you applied as "Sammy Bob Robby" and you made the gun in Dallas, TX..........you engrave it exactly like that. You can abbreviate the state, but nothing else.

Ok Thanks

If you create a trust titled "SBR Trust" the engraving would read
"SBR Trust, My Town My State".

Nuclear, go ahead & apply for your SBR stamp, engrave the lower or barrel as you see fit and press on. You can then configure your AR as a short barreled rifle, rifle or pistol and enjoy the rights and privileges thereof for each.

For example, if configured as a rifle or pistol, you can travel with your AR across state lines without the permission slip. There is no reason for you to wait to engrave your AR.

Theohazard said:

No, it’s not an SBR until it’s assembled as an SBR, meaning it has a stock and also a barrel less than 16” (or an overall length less than 26”). If it’s assembled as an SBR before the tax stamp comes back and before it’s engraved, it’s an illegal SBR. And engraving a firearm doesn’t make it into an SBR, it just makes it into a firearm that now has some extra engraving on it. Remember, SBRs are only SBRs when assembled as such. Otherwise, they’re just normal Title I rifles or pistols (depending on the configuration) even if they’re engraved and you have an approved tax stamp.

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MistWolf said:

For example, if configured as a rifle or pistol, you can travel with your AR across state lines without the permission slip. There is no reason for you to wait to engrave your AR.

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This is why braces should matter to the SBR folks. Because filling out all the paperwork to take an SBR out of state is a pain in the ***.

<*(((>< said:

...... Because filling out all the paperwork to take an SBR out of state is a pain in the ***.

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You have to be kidding.
"all the paperwork" is one side of one sheet of paper: https://www.atf.gov/file/4781/download
1. Your name, address, phone#
2. The information on the firearm.
3. The reason its being transported
4. Where the firearm is and where its going and how it will get there.

Exhausting.

dogtown tom said:

You have to be kidding.
"all the paperwork" is one side of one sheet of paper: https://www.atf.gov/file/4781/download
1. Your name, address, phone#
2. The information on the firearm.
3. The reason its being transported
4. Where the firearm is and where its going and how it will get there.

Exhausting.

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And, it lasts a year if you fill out the dates as such. I just change dates and submit them... oops, forgot this year until quite recently, so waiting for approval, but no trip planned so NBD and it generally takes 2-4 weeks. Worst part is you need one per state. I send in 5 now. Instructors I have talked to do up to: 50. That's a tiny bit annoying.

Also, whoever does that paperwork is especially nice. Once had a typo, examiner called me instead of just rejecting, put my correction on top of the pile when it came in, stamped it approved the day it arrived.

I do wish efile worked better and they'd add 5320.20 to that. We'd probably go to 3 day average approvals then.

dogtown tom said:

You have to be kidding.
"all the paperwork" is one side of one sheet of paper: https://www.atf.gov/file/4781/download
1. Your name, address, phone#
2. The information on the firearm.
3. The reason its being transported
4. Where the firearm is and where its going and how it will get there.

Exhausting.

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No I’m not kidding, but have fun asking the government for a hall pass.

No thanks!

<*(((>< said:

No I’m not kidding, but have fun asking the government for a hall pass.

No thanks!

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Wait a minute.........you said "all the paperwork" and "pain in the ***" as if it were multiple pages or difficult to understand and complete. That sir is ignorance at the very least, in which case you shouldn't have posted before discovering the truth.
In short, YOU GAVE FALSE AND MISLEADING INFORMATION for no reason than to promote your opinion.

Now, you're calling it a "hall pass".......well, so is filling out a Form 4473, applying for a CHL/CCW/LTC or any other form or "hall pass" that is a requirement. to enjoy what firearm freedoms we do have. We may not like doing so and IMHO all that is an infringement on my Second Amendment rights.....but until the USSC rules otherwise we're stuck with it.
Posting erroneous information doesn't do anyone a service. Please stop it.

dogtown tom said:

Wait a minute.........you said "all the paperwork" and "pain in the ***" as if it were multiple pages or difficult to understand and complete. That sir is ignorance at the very least, in which case you shouldn't have posted before discovering the truth.
In short, YOU GAVE FALSE AND MISLEADING INFORMATION for no reason than to promote your opinion.

Now, you're calling it a "hall pass".......well, so is filling out a Form 4473, applying for a CHL/CCW/LTC or any other form or "hall pass" that is a requirement. to enjoy what firearm freedoms we do have. We may not like doing so and IMHO all that is an infringement on my Second Amendment rights.....but until the USSC rules otherwise we're stuck with it.
Posting erroneous information doesn't do anyone a service. Please stop it.

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I’ll continue to call having to fill out paperwork to take my property over state lines whatever I feel like. That’s a very large advantage among others to pistol braces.

Have fun with your hall passes I’m done with you. You need some anger management, jumping all over someone because of the word “all”. Have fun sitting on your pedestal.

So I’m ignorant and a liar good to know “Tom”, thankful for the ignore button.

<*(((>< said:

I’ll continue to call having to fill out paperwork to take my property over state lines whatever I feel like. That’s a very large advantage among others to pistol braces.

Have fun with your hall passes I’m done with you. You need some anger management, jumping all over someone because of the word “all”. Have fun sitting on your pedestal.

So I’m ignorant and a liar good to know “Tom”, thankful for the ignore button.

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Concur. Having to file paperwork to travel with personal property is more of a burden than not having to file paperwork, one might even call it an infringement. Considering I can't see what you are replying to, I'll just have to assume that it's the same guy that I hit the ignore button for.

You guys can ignore dogtown tom if you want to, but he does know what he's talking about. If you don't like filling out all that exhausting paperwork, read post #7, I solved it for you.

<*(((>< said:

I’ll continue to call having to fill out paperwork to take my property over state lines whatever I feel like. That’s a very large advantage among others to pistol braces.

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Whether its an advantage wasn't my point and you know it.
The point is the paperwork is not a "pain in the ***" as you claimed. It's simple.

Have fun with your hall passes I’m done with you. You need some anger management, jumping all over someone because of the word “all”. Have fun sitting on your pedestal.

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I'm not angry, just disappointed that another forum member would purposely mislead others as to the difficulty in completing the paperwork. Calling it whatever you feel like doesn't make it accurate information.

So I’m ignorant and a liar good to know “Tom”, thankful for the ignore button.

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Being ignorant doesn't mean you're dumb or intellectually disabled.....it just means you don't know the subject. And you don't.
And "liar" is your conclusion, not mine.

pdsmith505 said:

Concur. Having to file paperwork to travel with personal property is more of a burden than not having to file paperwork, one might even call it an infringement. Considering I can't see what you are replying to, I'll just have to assume that it's the same guy that I hit the ignore button for.

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It is a burden, it is an infringement....but its the law.

entropy said:

If you don't like filling out all that exhausting paperwork, read post #7, I solved it for you.

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That's my point with a brace, if one has an SBR, couldn't one use a braced lower to use when heading out of state, and avoid the paperwork?

A brace on a registered SBR does not magically turn it into a pistol. It is still an SBR an you still have to complete the interstate paperwork. If you build it as a pistol to begin with,and never register it as an SBR, nor ever mount an actual stock to it, THEN you don't have to do the paperwork. The OP was worried about braces becoming contraband, and I posted the simple solution for it.
You seem to think you can interpret ATF rulings however you want. It doesn't work that way. If I were set on defying them, I sure wouldn't state my intent here. YMMV.

entropy said:

A brace on a registered SBR does not magically turn it into a pistol. It is still an SBR an you still have to complete the interstate paperwork. If you build it as a pistol to begin with,and never register it as an SBR, nor ever mount an actual stock to it, THEN you don't have to do the paperwork. The OP was worried about braces becoming contraband, and I posted the simple solution for it.
You seem to think you can interpret ATF rulings however you want. It doesn't work that way. If I were set on defying them, I sure wouldn't state my intent here. YMMV.

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Sorry, I guess I was not being clear, one could just use a braced pistol lower with the upper to head out of state. I reread my post and it wasn't clear and see how it could be misinterpreted.

entropy said:

A brace on a registered SBR does not magically turn it into a pistol. It is still an SBR an you still have to complete the interstate paperwork. If you build it as a pistol to begin with,and never register it as an SBR, nor ever mount an actual stock to it, THEN you don't have to do the paperwork. The OP was worried about braces becoming contraband, and I posted the simple solution for it.
You seem to think you can interpret ATF rulings however you want. It doesn't work that way. If I were set on defying them, I sure wouldn't state my intent here. YMMV.

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The ATF has issued opinion letters to the effect that an SBR is only an SBR when it is in an SBR configuration. One Example: https://imgur.com/a/2kGJvHf

Since the Thompson Center SCOTUS case, the ATF has opined that a firearm that started as a pistol can be configured as a rifle, and then made back into a pistol at a later date.

So... If you start with an AR pistol and then put a 16"+ upper on it with a stock you have a rifle. That rifle can go back to being a pistol. Say you register the firearm as an SBR and put the pistol upper on the rifle configured lower, now you have an SBR that can just as easily go back to being an unregulated rifle, which could go back to being an unregulated pistol. Others report receiving ATF confirmation that this is OK: https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/comments/9giryx/a_lesson_in_sbrs_configuration_dictates_the/

Sounds like a good question to ask ATF that is fairly innocuous. "Can I start with a pistol, register it as an SBR, then revert it's configuration to a pistol to travel across state lines without an approved 5320.20?"

I have 2 AR style “pistols”, never even worried about jumping through all the NFA hoops. The arm braces they have out now are amazing. Some even collapse and extend (to a point). I have angled hand stops underneath the barrel on the piccatiny rail. As long as they are not vertical grips it’s legal. My question is why are people still going through the expensively long hassle of registering an SBR?