Tannerite and 45-70

I have found speed is much more important than mass.

It is strictly speed. I wouldn't count on the 45/70 to initiate it reliably. I was one of the first dealers for Tannerite, and they sent a marketing video showing it being heated with an oxy acetylene torch, and hit with a sledgehammer. That wouldn't set it off, and I would imagine that a 45/70 is akin to being hit with a sledgehammer.

I have shot them a few times years ago with my 45-70 but I was with not 400 grain loads. They were around 2200fps.

rule303 said:

It is strictly speed. I wouldn't count on the 45/70 to initiate it reliably. I was one of the first dealers for Tannerite, and they sent a marketing video showing it being heated with an oxy acetylene torch, and hit with a sledgehammer. That wouldn't set it off, and I would imagine that a 45/70 is akin to being hit with a sledgehammer.

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Do you remember much more on the "safety" info on this stuff. This is an area I would love to learn much more about.

For 99% of the "power" to guns we talk about FPE.....we all know this is a formula of mass and speed.....lower one and increase the other and you can get the numbers to stay the same....like your sledgehammer example. Wonder if anyone ever calculated the FPE (foot pounds of energy) with a hammer blow.

Anyhoo......

I do know it is speed but why speed....it is not heat from your torch example.....what is it in the speed that sets this stuff off. Size has nothing to do with it...it is all how fast it is moving.

Me thinks it is just that impact....the newton law an object at rest and all that jazz.....but then you would think.......

What I would like to see is one of these youtube idiots....yes I said IDIOTS.....that like to shoot nail gun cartridges in their 22's and use a 22 pellet for a projectile shoot some tannerite with it. here we have a VERY light projectile moving VERY fast....I saw one video that had chrono readings of 4000fps with alloy pellets....hitting it would take some time....but that would really be interesting.

Would an 8 grain projectile moving at 3000+fps set it off?

fpgt72 said:

Would an 8 grain projectile moving at 3000+fps set it off?

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Dunno about 8 grains, but I DO know a .17 HMR Hornaday V-MAX at 17 grains is entirely sufficient...

fpgt72 said:

I do know it is speed but why speed....it is not heat from your torch example.....what is it in the speed that sets this stuff off. Size has nothing to do with it...it is all how fast it is moving.

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Because you don't need to do anything to the large mass of tannerite with your input energy. If you can apply sufficient power (not energy) to the first couple grams you touch, you've started the chain reaction and off it goes.

If you don't apply enough power to the first bit of tannerite to start the reaction, then all the energy in the world won't start it.

Energy is the amount of work done; Power is the rate at which work is done.

If you are willing to give up half your ammonium nitrate, you can make it a lot more sensitive by doubling up on the aluminum powder "catalyst". That is basically what their "Goliath" brand of .22lr targets are.

Other tips I can offer, wrap the container in duct tape after you mix it, little more initial resistance helps with the boom and lets it survive a bad hit, enough so a good hit will still set it off. "Winging" the unwrapped plastic container generally sends it spilling uselessly on the ground . We seemed to get a better boom by getting it a bit off the ground -- on top of an empty aluminum can or taping a bit of bamboo to it and sticking the bamboo stake into the ground. Don't let it sit around after you mix, it reacts slowly with the moisture in the air and the aluminum powder to reduce its sensitivity. We've never let it sit for more than an hour and have 100% boom factor since we started wrapping the containers in duct tape so there is a second chance with a bad hit.

Consensus here is that shooting Tannerite with suppressed 5.56 is the most fun, with the "Goliath" targets and a suppressed .22lr the second most fun.

If you don't apply enough power to the first bit of tannerite to start the reaction, then all the energy in the world won't start it.

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Yup, If you have good recoil control and can see the bullet impact on the container, you will see a white hot glow just before the full detonation.

I hit a big canister solidly at 85 yards with a 180 gr bullet fired from a S&W .44 mag mountain gun and all it did was spill all over the ground. (Hit it on the third shot)

We swept up as much of the mess as we could and put it into a coffee can. The next hit with a 6.5x55 set it off nicely.

As was stated above, its speed not energy that sets it off.

Stay safe.

Think of it this way....

a very heavy bullet (say 300 grains) at 1,200 FPS will splatter on an A500 steel target. A 55 grainer at 3,000 will punch right through

I got a few cans as a gift a while back... maybe birthday or something. I used one. Splattered the can with a 12ga slug. Knew I had hit it, but it was inside a clear plastic jug full of foam peanuts piled on top of it. .270 worked. i never really got the thrill of it. I have seen it shot with jars of gasoline in front and a flare in the area though and that’s great fun.

wally said:

We seemed to get a better boom by getting it a bit off the ground -- on top of an empty aluminum can or taping a bit of bamboo to it and sticking the bamboo stake into the ground.

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A great idea. Not only does it get more of the pressure wave traveling towards you, for a louder boom, but it gets the composition away from particles and stones on the ground that could become projectiles themselves.

wally said:

If you are willing to give up half your ammonium nitrate, you can make it a lot more sensitive by doubling up on the aluminum powder "catalyst". That is basically what their "Goliath" brand of .22lr targets are.

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I don’t know about brand specific proprietary compounds, but Al-An is a roughly a ratio of ten to one by weight.
While it doesn't need to be stoichiometrically balanced to react, getting too far off the mix will result in shooting a bunch of grey powder or a bunch of white pricks.
If there isn’t enough Nitrate in proximity of the Aluminum it won’t initiate, or if it does it gives a slower reaction as the aluminum tries to take oxygen from the air too. Resulting in a “ffoom” instead of a “Bang!”.

The rimfire sensitive shot indicators have magnesium added as a sensitizer and fuel. “Magnalium” and ammonium nitrate is heat and friction sensitive.
It also is exothermic, meaning it gives off heat when it burns. Tannerite is endothermic and takes in heat as it reacts, it catches gasoline on fire by compressing and burning the oxygen in the air as it disintegrates the container the fuel is in.
The rimfire stuff will light burnables with heat at a lower pressure than it takes to “diesel” the air.

That’s not to say they are low pressure when they go, but I’ve had some puff and poof, while others BANGed. All of them lit the target on fire. Except the one that worked perfect and shredded the cardboard.
The inconsistency leads me to use only the centerfire version.
It’s amazingly inexpensive to buy the components and mix them. And sour cream containers are easier to see out in the leaves.

taliv said:

but not so much that gets the sheriff called on you.

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But he was really nice when he came out. He said we weren’t doing anything wrong and was about to go tell the horse lady next door that, too..

Do firecrackers inserted into Tannerite set it off?

Nope.
I'm not sure if the paper slows the shock wave front or what, but I couldn't get it to go.

Now the rimfire type, yes. A bic lighter will do it. In fact what's in a fire cracker and the rimfire kind is remarkably similar.

I don't like to use compositions that self confine. Tannerite and black powder for me when I need booms.

fpgt72 said:

Do you remember much more on the "safety" info on this stuff. This is an area I would love to learn much more about.

For 99% of the "power" to guns we talk about FPE.....we all know this is a formula of mass and speed.....lower one and increase the other and you can get the numbers to stay the same....like your sledgehammer example. Wonder if anyone ever calculated the FPE (foot pounds of energy) with a hammer blow.

Anyhoo......

I do know it is speed but why speed....it is not heat from your torch example.....what is it in the speed that sets this stuff off. Size has nothing to do with it...it is all how fast it is moving.

Me thinks it is just that impact....the newton law an object at rest and all that jazz.....but then you would think.......

What I would like to see is one of these youtube idiots....yes I said IDIOTS.....that like to shoot nail gun cartridges in their 22's and use a 22 pellet for a projectile shoot some tannerite with it. here we have a VERY light projectile moving VERY fast....I saw one video that had chrono readings of 4000fps with alloy pellets....hitting it would take some time....but that would really be interesting.

Would an 8 grain projectile moving at 3000+fps set it off?

Click to expand...

17 HMR sets it off at 50 yards with 17 grain ammo. At 100, it won't do it reliably.
223 always sets it off. 30-06 makes it even louder.
This tells me that velocity is necessary, but a larger bullet at similar velocity ignites it better.

Putting the prills in a blender and powdering them thoroughly before adding the Aluminum makes for a more intimate mixture. This makes for a much more impressive BOOM, than a loud “Whump”.

Demi-human said:

Putting the prills in a blender and powdering them thoroughly before adding the Aluminum makes for a more intimate mixture. This makes for a much more impressive BOOM, than a loud “Whump”.

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Fill a 1lb powder bottle full, wrap it with a roll of duct tape. If you don't tape the bottom, it will dig about a foot and a half deep hole.
I'm going to try your idea next time.

Perhaps I am not asking correctly.....let me try again....I do have issues with the written word.

That all said if this sounds snarky I don't intend it to be.

Power means nothing.....what is power. I want a formula, Xmass moving at Yspeed will set this stuff off. Can I lower mass and keep speed the same....does not sound like it with the poster about the 17. We can make the assume that the mass of the bullet on the 17hmr is not going to change by much between 50 and 100 yards, what is the drop in FPS. What does a 17 bullet weigh...20 grains.

I think there is no issue with 3006 at 100 yards....I have used this stuff very little, and really have little use for it....but that does not mean it does not interest me. I know I have used 3006 at 100 yards with it and had no issues. Now thinking that both bullets are moving at 2000-ish fps at the muzzle....you would think that mass has to have something to do with it. Is the 17 bleeding that much speed from 50 to 100 yards that it makes it not able to set it off....it is the only thing that adds up. What is the "average"....I know bullet weight, bla bla bla will make a difference, but ball park......average speed of the two bullets at 100 yards.

Looks like I have some research to do.

But don't use terms like "power" to define anything....unless you are going to define power first, like in a FPE type deal.

edwardware said:

Because you don't need to do anything to the large mass of tannerite with your input energy. If you can apply sufficient power (not energy) to the first couple grams you touch, you've started the chain reaction and off it goes. If you don't apply enough power to the first bit of tannerite to start the reaction, then all the energy in the world won't start it. Energy is the amount of work done; Power is the rate at which work is done.

Click to expand...

I really don't see how it could be explained any better than this.

Use .22 sensitive tannerite as a catalyst. White lightning works well