How the 6.5 Creedmoor Changed shooting forever!

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d2wing said:
But the idea that there isn't internet and social marketing is ignorant.
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Social media marketing is a real thing, nobody is denying that. But there isn’t a “6.5 Creedmoor Corp” kicking back firearm and ammunition manufacturers for releasing products or issuing advertising to specifically spread the 6.5 creedmoor. It’s the hot cartridge, so companies release new products for it, which they subsequently advertise by all effective means, including social media. There’s no collusive conspiracy to drive the 6.5 creedmoor. Rather companies know if they release a new rifle model, they better include the 6.5 creed among its chamberings.

Consider how many new rifles are released with DBM’s - how many of these have standardized to AR or AI mags? Do we think Glock went knocking on Ruger’s door to conspire to sell more mags by convincing Ruger to release their re-released PC’s using Glock mags? Do we think AI (or Magpul) was knocking on doors at Savage, Remington, Magpul, Ruger, Seekins, etc to convince them into a profiteering scheme selling rifles which utilize their mags? Or is it far more realistic that we shooters want something, and companies realized - “damn, if we make what they want, they’ll buy it!”
 
Varminterror said:
the 6.5 creed remains a better option than the speedy 6’s, as it does for hunters
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Speaking of hunting, I was with hunting with a good friend and his wife this past November for their TV show and he used a 6.5CM to shoot a mule deer. It was my first and only experience (vicarious) of hunting with a 6.5CM. It was a great shot at 300 yards with perfect shot placement in some very windy conditions, and the deer still ran 100 yards or more before piling up. I've shot two mule deer using a .308 Win while hunting with that same friend. One at 350 yards and the other a little over 200 yards. Both were shot with a 150gr solid copper bullet and both deer dropped dead within 5 yards or less of where they were standing. My gf had a similar experience with an injured whitetail on my property using her .308 Win and shooting a Barnes 150gr TTSX.

I don't pretend to be an experienced hunter but I've only ever used solid copper bullets for hunting and have shot animals from a little over 200 yards to 460 yards and have never had an animal go more than 5 yards before expiring. Until I see otherwise, I don't care about supposed SD values which in my limited experience is a poor indicator of anything meaningful. Shot placement, bullet construction, bullet expansion and weight retention have worked for me every time. I shoot a 6.5CM and 6.5x47 Lapua but I'll continue to hunt with a .308 Win and .375 H&H shooting monolithic copper bullets. With a good brake (which I don't like), or a good suppressor (which I do like) the recoil of a .308 Win is minimal, but regardless, if you practice you can be effective with just about anything.
 
DocRock said:
Now that's just silly. We have been bombarded with 6.5 CM PR and marketing for a decade. To suggest it hasn't been marketed is just silly.



Other than the piss poor factory loads, which you rightly note, this is silly, again. Non-standard dimensions? Whatever are you talking about? The Swede can, and has been, chambered in standard actions since it was first offered in a commercial rifle. Non-standard barrels? What are these? The whole idea of the 6.5 CM was to make it shoot VLD bullets in a short action - presumably for weight savings, as the 1/2" difference in bolt throw is utterly immaterial. Then, it is chambered in heavy, long range rifles with 26" heavy barrels and monster scopes. So, the weight "savings" is utterly immaterial unless you are shooting a mountain rifle (the case for which is undermined by your references to declining hunting and increased target shooting). The 6.5 CM has no ballistic advantage over the Swede. Because science. It has the very real advantage of being very well marketed at the right time and filling the desires, whether organic or induced, of people with disposable income.

The only difference between the Swede and the 6.5CM is that someone found a way to make money by repackaging the old as new. I'm all in favor of the free market and happy to see the success around that effort. But it isn't anything new and it isn't anything special. It is a triumph of marketing and PR.
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I agree with you.... thats why I like the 6.5 CM !!!!

I can buy a accurate , affordable rifle chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor at every LGS in my small town (7) .. and a wide variety of 6.5 Creedmoor ...ammo

But ..... Im unable to accomplish that if I was looking for a 6.5x55 .... or a 260 ... all three of those cartridges are great ....
 
jmr40 said:
No marketing involved at all. The round has NEVER been advertised. It is selling strictly by word of mouth. This was a case where shooters went to Hornady and laid out what they needed. In fact had been doing with customized rifles and ammo in 260. They asked Hornady to make it happen with off the shelf ammo that could be used in off the shelf rifles.

The problem with the 6.5X55 which you refer to has to do with non standard dimensions and barrels in a 100+ year old cartridge and poor performance from factory loads. The 6.5X55 COULD match 6.5 CM, but only with custom built rifles shooting non standard handloads.

I think it is the most balanced cartridge to come out in my lifetime. Sure, the 260 and 6.5X55 are capable of similar performance, but as stated above, not with off the shelf rifles and ammo. Being able to walk into a store and pick up a sub $400 rifle and a $15 box of factory loads and do anything you can do with a 270 in the hunting fields with 1/3 less recoil will appeal to hunters. Then use the same rifle and a $30 box of match ammo and compete at 1000 yards.

And in 2020 the number of hunters has declined sharply, most new shooters are using their rifles to shoot at targets. Even those who still hunt are using the same rifles to shoot more than ever before during the off hunting season. I can't think of any cartridge that will do so much for so little cost and recoil.
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I agree with all of this, and I don't own a 6.5 CM
 
Probably the smartest marketing decision made by Hornady was to use decent quality brass and excellent bullets loaded with canister powders that were readily available to reloaders.

Hornady showed their real genius when they printed the exact load recipe for the ammo within right on the box, allowing even inexperienced handloaders the ability to duplicate the factory load easily.

AWESOME MARKETING COUP!
 
I think it's great to get excited about something new. I thought the 260 Rem was going tobe a great cartridge when it came out in 1997 . The 6.5 CM has taken off as mentioned, do to being a target minded round that does a nice job as a light hunting cartridge. Has it changed the shooting world time will tell. Does it do anything magic - no, but it has been marketed well.

I haven't bought a rifle in 6.5 CM because it doesn't do anything better than my current rifles do. Not because isn't any good it's a great little round, but it's not magic.
 
Energy of the old "308" 180 gr vs a proper modern round, the 6.5 Creedmoor. Guess which is which.

fMZ6Wel.png
 
jmr40 said:
The problem with the 6.5X55 which you refer to has to do with non standard dimensions and barrels in a 100+ year old cartridge and poor performance from factory loads. The 6.5X55 COULD match 6.5 CM, but only with custom built rifles shooting non standard handloads.
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European factory 6.5x55 ammo does just fine, have taken several cow elk with Norma 156 gr. ammo.
 
Random 8 said:
As for the short vs. medium action (6.5Cr Vs 6.5 SKAN), most short action rifles in 'murica are built around the .308 Win parent. 6.5x55 is incopatable with this, requiring a longer action.
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Now THAT is marketing. Has anyone ever lost a match or missed a game animal because their action was a fraction of an inch longer?

Also to get full potential with the 6.5x55(6.5 SKAN), it must be loaded above pressure levels safe for the M96 pattern mauser which would have the lawyers licking their chops.
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Again, just stay clear of 6.5x55 ammo made in the US, the lawyer capital of the world.
 
I don't think there's been any cartridge released with a larger impact on rifle shooting than the 7X57mm Mauser. I own and enjoy lots of rifle cartriges & rifles but there's no way anything yet has had anywhere near the impact on rifle shooting forever like that.
 
MCMXI said:
I don't pretend to be an experienced hunter but I've only ever used solid copper bullets for hunting and have shot animals from a little over 200 yards to 460 yards and have never had an animal go more than 5 yards before expiring. Until I see otherwise, I don't care about supposed SD values which in my limited experience is a poor indicator of anything meaningful. Shot placement, bullet construction, bullet expansion and weight retention have worked for me every time.
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This is a subject I like to scrape against and sometimes come right out with. I can only use anecdotes as well but I just feel better using heavier bullets of greater diameter. With good shot placement, no adequately penetrating cartridge is “better” but some work a whole lot faster on game. Once again anecdotally but I have found Barnes TSX/TTSX bullets seem to drop them faster. Probably because of the more reliable weight retention and expansion.

Im not a hater of the 6.5CM but I don’t own one and I do become easily amused by the Kool-Aid talk that goes on. Yep. I have Luddite tendencies. I tend to look at firearm related things things from my own perspective and don’t really care about others perspectives but still understand other folks have their own reasons for things.

Until a company starts paying me to give them universal praise, I will continue to call it as I see it and that includes being skeptical of new items that don’t do anything new.
 
Mr. Zorg said:
I don't think there's been any cartridge released with a larger impact on rifle shooting than the 7X57mm Mauser. I own and enjoy lots of rifle cartriges & rifles but there's no way anything yet has had anywhere near the impact on rifle shooting forever like that.
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8mm Lebel
 
This is a subject that always baffles the hell out of me. You have a group of small but vocal antagonists that act as if they were required to buy a rifle chambering the cartridge and set all those they already own ablaze. The cartridge is hated like no other and it's never for valid reasons.

First, you have to know why it came about. It was not designed for deer hunting out to 300yds. In that role, it does nothing better than existing cartridges and the ignorant act as if it's supposed to replace their favorite deer blaster. It ain't. It was designed from the start as a long range precision cartridge. No, the 6.5x55 and .260 do not do everything the 6.5CM does because in order to do so, they require custom rifles, fast twist barrels and/or over-spec handloads. As JRM40 posted, it was designed to excel at long range shooting out of the box with factory ammo. Sorry but you can't change the pressure limit of the Swede or the standard twist rate of the .260 and expect a happy outcome. Plus those cartridges are already pigeon-holed (by folks who needs pigeon'holes) as sporting rounds. You especially can't alter specs when +100yr old rifles are part of the equation. So the only viable solution is to design a new cartridge that takes the good and eliminates the bad. One that can be marketed for its intended usage, without the baggage of obsolete or dead cartridges. The Swede has a significant taper to its case and it's longer than it needs to be. Short, squat cases with very little taper are more efficient. The CM fixes those issues. The CM was also designed with a sharper 30° shoulder than either the .260 or 6.5x55. These are minor but important distinctions that don't amount to a hill of beans to the average deer hunter but in the world of long range competitive shooting, it adds up.

Secondly, I have to laugh about all the "marketing" or "hype" comments. I honestly don't know where you see it. At the gun shop? From your buddies at the range? I get a whole bunch of shooting-related magazines every month and I don't ever recall sitting and staring at an ad for anything 6.5CM related. Or even seeing one, for that matter. I guess I judge it based on merit, not the ignorant opinions of others or the rantings of madmen.

This chart shows that evolution has begun leaving the 6.5CM behind but what one should notice here is that there are NO 6.5x55's or .260's listed at all. The CM has been displaced by other, specialized, new cartridges. Not grandpa's old military surplus deer blaster. The 6.5CM just so happens to also make a great sporting round with all the benefits of its predecessors and it can also take advantage of its popularity for other purposes.

index.php
 
Walkalong said:
I see no 6.5 Creedmoor hate here, just some aren't wowed by it as much as others.
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Oh it's hate. It's not that they're "not wowed". They hate on it for irrational reasons because they do not understand why it was designed or why it's popular. They hate it because it's popular and they think it's trendy. It happens with pretty much every single new firearm or cartridge offering.
 
CraigC said:
This is a subject that always baffles the hell out of me. You have a group of small but vocal antagonists that act as if they were required to buy a rifle chambering the cartridge and set all those they already own ablaze. The cartridge is hated like no other and it's never for valid reasons.

First, you have to know why it came about. It was not designed for deer hunting out to 300yds. In that role, it does nothing better than existing cartridges and the ignorant act as if it's supposed to replace their favorite deer blaster. It ain't. It was designed from the start as a long range precision cartridge. No, the 6.5x55 and .260 do not do everything the 6.5CM does because in order to do so, they require custom rifles, fast twist barrels and/or over-spec handloads. As JRM40 posted, it was designed to excel at long range shooting out of the box with factory ammo. Sorry but you can't change the pressure limit of the Swede or the standard twist rate of the .260 and expect a happy outcome. Plus those cartridges are already pigeon-holed (by folks who needs pigeon'holes) as sporting rounds. You especially can't alter specs when +100yr old rifles are part of the equation. So the only viable solution is to design a new cartridge that takes the good and eliminates the bad. One that can be marketed for its intended usage, without the baggage of obsolete or dead cartridges. The Swede has a significant taper to its case and it's longer than it needs to be. Short, squat cases with very little taper are more efficient. The CM fixes those issues. The CM was also designed with a sharper 30° shoulder than either the .260 or 6.5x55. These are minor but important distinctions that don't amount to a hill of beans to the average deer hunter but in the world of long range competitive shooting, it adds up.

Secondly, I have to laugh about all the "marketing" or "hype" comments. I honestly don't know where you see it. At the gun shop? From your buddies at the range? I get a whole bunch of shooting-related magazines every month and I don't ever recall sitting and staring at an ad for anything 6.5CM related. Or even seeing one, for that matter. I guess I judge it based on merit, not the ignorant opinions of others or the rantings of madmen.

This chart shows that evolution has begun leaving the 6.5CM behind but what one should notice here is that there are NO 6.5x55's or .260's listed at all. The CM has been displaced by other, specialized, new cartridges. Not grandpa's old military surplus deer blaster. The 6.5CM just so happens to also make a great sporting round with all the benefits of its predecessors and it can also take advantage of its popularity for other purposes.

index.php
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You see! unfamiliar with, or wish to mislead readers about, the 6.5x55 and the rifles in which it is chambered.

The Swedish Mauser has a 1:7.55 twist. It was designed to stabilize 160 grs bullets. No "customization" is required in a commercial rifle chambered in 6 .5x55 to match 6.5CM performance of it chambered to CIP specs. The only "customization" to a Swedish Mauser required to meet or exceed 6 .5CM performance is to drill and tap for scope mounts, admittedly an undesirable approach.

The 6.5 CM was designed to allow a short action rifle to use VLD bullets. Bolt throw is immaterial. So perhaps for weight savings? Makes sense in a hunting rifle. None in a target rifle.
 
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