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sparkyv
Member
That's what the 10mm is all about, South Prairie Jim!
I've read up on this issue, and this makes the most sense to me, so far:
I've read up on this issue, and this makes the most sense to me, so far:
SR1911-10 barrel lower lug is cracked
- Thread starter sparkyv
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Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
Why wouldn’t the tiny link fail or stretch, as opposed to tearing a welded lug off?
Maybe bad metallurgy? I dunno.
I had a link break on a RIA commander sized barrel once. Maybe it has to do with the increased velocity and violence of recoil in the 10mm?
Could be a stress concentration, just look at the sharp edges at the intersection of the pieces. My Statics teacher claimed that James Watt had an epitaph that said "round your corners". That was before the internet and I can't find such a saying, but the logic is sound.
Bad metallurgy would be my guess. Bad metallurgy should not happen in today's world, but it does. As an example, Kobe Steel was fined for fabricating data amid falling credibility of made-in-Japan products
Kobe Steel said in order to make it look like their products met their clients' specifications, they deliberately falsified the strength, durability and other data pertaining to the more than 600 products shipped to their clients.
Data, it was found, was manipulated at 23 domestic and overseas plants, with the company also admitting that more than 40 employees were involved in the falsification practice, which the firm said had been endemic in the company since the 1970s when the misconduct first began at its Tochigi Plant.
Companies ranging from automakers and airplane manufacturers, to defense equipment and Shinkansen bullet train makers, have been affected by the protracted scandal that has rocked the manufacturing world both domestically and globally.
There was a time, that is around 1900, when products were bought solely on reputation, and companies found, that if you did not have inhouse certification and inspection, the supplier would ship non conforming material because the buyer was too stupid to know the difference. For a time smart businesses had incoming inspection and independent verification, but that went away in the ISO 9000 world. And Kobe steel is an example of a practice that is much more wide spread than industry will admit.
I really thought Kobe Steel would go bust after this revelation but not so!. Stock was hovering around 1300-800 before the scandal, dipped, and now is around 504. It seems purchasing managers will continue to buy cheap product as long as Kobe CEO's weep, wail and claim they have learned their lesson!
Kobe Steel scandal: how did it happen?
Bad metallurgy would be my guess. Bad metallurgy should not happen in today's world, but it does. As an example, Kobe Steel was fined for fabricating data amid falling credibility of made-in-Japan products
Kobe Steel said in order to make it look like their products met their clients' specifications, they deliberately falsified the strength, durability and other data pertaining to the more than 600 products shipped to their clients.
Data, it was found, was manipulated at 23 domestic and overseas plants, with the company also admitting that more than 40 employees were involved in the falsification practice, which the firm said had been endemic in the company since the 1970s when the misconduct first began at its Tochigi Plant.
Companies ranging from automakers and airplane manufacturers, to defense equipment and Shinkansen bullet train makers, have been affected by the protracted scandal that has rocked the manufacturing world both domestically and globally.
There was a time, that is around 1900, when products were bought solely on reputation, and companies found, that if you did not have inhouse certification and inspection, the supplier would ship non conforming material because the buyer was too stupid to know the difference. For a time smart businesses had incoming inspection and independent verification, but that went away in the ISO 9000 world. And Kobe steel is an example of a practice that is much more wide spread than industry will admit.
I really thought Kobe Steel would go bust after this revelation but not so!. Stock was hovering around 1300-800 before the scandal, dipped, and now is around 504. It seems purchasing managers will continue to buy cheap product as long as Kobe CEO's weep, wail and claim they have learned their lesson!
Kobe Steel scandal: how did it happen?
Trust but VERIFY!
Vern Humphrey
Member
It might, a little. But usually it tears the lug right off the barrel. If you ever notice a U-shaped mark on the side of your brass, that's a depression in the chamber formed by the lug being pulled down.
Not necessarily an issue going into battery..
I was looking at the front lug showing far more wear than the rear. which leads me to believe its unlocking too soon . Cannot tell from the picture if the lug is rounded or not.
OP can u post pics of your front lug?
Jim Watson
Member
Had that happen on a .45 with moderate loads. The barrel vendor replaced it with the note "improperly fitted." Which does not explain why three other brands of barrel installed in the same shop are holding up just fine.
While a single issue can cause a failure, I often wonder if the truth is somewhere in the middle. Combine a marginal part, marginal fitting, marginal link length and a high intensity cartridge and a failure might occur even though all technically where within margin.
edwardware
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I know that it looks like that, but Kuhnhausen's quite clear (Book 1, pg 65-66) that the barrel lug should be clearanced 0.002" off the frame when the barrel's all the down into the bed.
Does Ruger do that? No idea, but I'll take Kuhnhausen over Ruger any day.
Man, as I grow older it's become funny when someone reminds me that there is something that I used to know; but I think this is right. I had a buddy who was a gunsmith. He was a self taught machinist that had a real interest in firearms. What edwardware said above reminded me of when my buddy used to fit a barrel to a slide. He'd do all of his measuring and fitting and when he was done, he'd mark all the areas that should be clearanced with a marker and then cycle the gun by hand. If any of the marker was rubbed off, something that shouldn't be was touching.
Yep, I've come to believe that the terms "1911" and "drop-in" are mutually exclusive and should not be used in the same sentence without the use of the word "not." I've seen quite a few 1911s that were worked on or built by so called gunsmiths in .45 that appeared to run just fine because the .45 is such a low pressure round. You turn that .45 into what is essentially a .357/.41 magnum and shoddy work/parts reveal themselves.
OP
OP
sparkyv
Member
Steve in Allentown
Member
As other have noted this may be a fitting issue.
If the barrel contacts the frame bed before or at the same time as it hits the VIS, it will pull the lower lug off the barrel, and depending on how hard it hits, can pull it clean through to the chamber.
If the barrel contacts the frame bed before or at the same time as it hits the VIS, it will pull the lower lug off the barrel, and depending on how hard it hits, can pull it clean through to the chamber.
Thanks.. front lug doesn't appear that its rounded at all. Is there a raised lip on the middle one?
JFrank
Member
I would disagree but hey Your the guy with the broken gun.
bannockburn
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sparkyv
Yikes! That's one mighty scary looking defect! Glad you caught it before something really bad happened to you! Got to believe Ruger CS will take care of you.
Yikes! That's one mighty scary looking defect! Glad you caught it before something really bad happened to you! Got to believe Ruger CS will take care of you.
HisSoldier
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Shouldn't be welded on, AFAIK only SA at one time had two-piece barrels, but they were silver brazed together all the way around the smaller diameter like a tube oven brazed to a smaller tube. Maybe I'm wrong but all barrels made today have lugs that are all part of the original barstock the barrel is made up out of originally, or said another way, homogeneous one-piece steel. There has been some talk about stainless steel barrels shearing lugs off much easier than alloy carbon steel but this barrel appears to be carbon steel.
HisSoldier
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I hope you ask Ruger if they have a theory as to why this happened and report back.
Honestly, I’ve owned a few 10mm’s. Of all that I owned, I really enjoyed the smith 1006, I think it was, and the 1066. Oh, and the smith 610 revolver was the best of them all.
to me the 1911 was designed around a low pressure round and is not the best design for a 10mm. Well, a well fitted 1911 is fine, but who ever builds it has to know what he’s doing.
to me the 1911 was designed around a low pressure round and is not the best design for a 10mm. Well, a well fitted 1911 is fine, but who ever builds it has to know what he’s doing.
Rock185
Member
Schuemann has an informative article on their website as to factors possibly involved in the failure of the W/N type lower lugs, as used by Ruger. That lower vertical portion of the lower lug is designed to impact and stop against the VIS. I have guns with the W/N type ramped barrel, and the location of the damage in the OP's photo is exactly where I would expect my W/N ramped barrels to fail, if they ever do.
FWIW, I had a Delta and later a Kimber 10MM. I've been a fan of the 10 since it's introduction, and owned a number of semi-autos and revolvers chambered for the cartridge, beginning with a Bren Ten. In my humble, likely minority, opinion then and now the 1911 is not the most robust platform for the 10. Especially if using the "real" 10MM ammo, whether factory or equivalent reloads.......ymmv
FWIW, I had a Delta and later a Kimber 10MM. I've been a fan of the 10 since it's introduction, and owned a number of semi-autos and revolvers chambered for the cartridge, beginning with a Bren Ten. In my humble, likely minority, opinion then and now the 1911 is not the most robust platform for the 10. Especially if using the "real" 10MM ammo, whether factory or equivalent reloads.......ymmv
jhb
Member
scary potential there. glad ya caught it before anything happened, op.
Trey Veston
Member
When I was in school for Naval aviation structure repair, I was taught to round all corners and give them a good radius. Rounded edges reduce stress. Ever since then, even when doing my own fabricating from SUV roof racks to brackets for storing tools, all corners are radiused.
Even when I was running a CNC machine for Ruger making SR trigger bars, the final step was to check them for tolerance and de-burr them. I always gave a quick half-second stroke with the round file at the joint where the striker bar met the main bar. It seemed like a weak point to me.
So if you have a Ruger SR series handgun made in the spring of 2012 and the trigger seems smoother and hasn't failed; you're welcome.
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sparkyv
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Called Ruger today and they sent me a return label. Back to the Mothership she goes.
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