357 mag powder
- Thread starter Bogeyman68
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2400 for 357 is great. There are others but I've always used it and it's clean, reliable and predictable . good enough for me. I've used h110 too, didn't like it as much, I reserve it for the big magnums.
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Bogeyman68
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I know I am in the minority on this but no matter what im doing if I am shooting my 357 or any other for that matter I want a decent powered load. Right or wrong I am not one for shooting weakened loads. I truly enjoy shooting and want whatever I'm shooting to be as it is meant to
Obturation
Member
I'm with you, I don't hotrod any round but if I want something lighter I'll grab the appropriate gun. Same if I want something bigger. I have guns that max out my shooting desire in both directions, only one that I do both with (a 45-70). My 357 only eats 158 grain bullets in 357 brass. Generally 158 grain SWC over 2400, sights are adjusted to that load and it doesn't lead and it has plenty of power for most uses but is comfortable. Old fashioned load that's been around almost 100 years and is still very popular for a reason.
frankmako
Member
i use titegroup for my 357 mag loads used in a marlin 1894cb. i also like clean shot, aa#5, 2400, and h110. titegroup and clean shot for 158 hp bullets. aa#5 for powder coated 160 gr cast lead. 2400 and h100 for the heavy bullets 170/180 and 200 gr bullets.
FROGO207
Member
Actual economy is not an issue for me. I will take a little more propellant and a more stable or matched load over what is a small savings ultimately.. And this is coming from someone that is basically cheap.
ballman6711
Member
I can understand the cost vs case fill debate... save a few cents or have a better safety margin against a double charge....
Out of curiosity I ran some numbers to determine how much you would save using Titegroup vs 2400 vs H110.
I used max data loads from the powder manufactures websites for this comparison (ALWAYS start low and work up carefully) and prices from Midway (not including tax, shipping, or hazmat). You can get supplies cheaper elsewhere obviously, and sale prices would throw these numbers out the window. Load data was for a 158gr Hornady xtp on Hodgdons website, and a 158gr gold dot on Alliants website.
Cost of powder per loaded round using Titegroup is about .015 cents, .05 for 2400, and .064 using H110.
This works out to about $1.75 more per box of fifty using 2400, or about $2.50 more per box of fifty using H110.
So the savings can be significant over the long run, but I personally would choose a higher margin of safety.
I personally use W231 in my 38spcl and 357mag loads as well as H110 in 357mag. For comparison using 231 at max charge in the 357mag would be about .02 cents per round (I got my last purchase of W231 for $20 per pound), or .25 cents per box of fifty compared to using Titegroup. Current pricing on Midway would have you at .028 cents per round, or about .65 cents more per box of fifty.
Again, always start low and work your loads up carefully.
chris
Out of curiosity I ran some numbers to determine how much you would save using Titegroup vs 2400 vs H110.
I used max data loads from the powder manufactures websites for this comparison (ALWAYS start low and work up carefully) and prices from Midway (not including tax, shipping, or hazmat). You can get supplies cheaper elsewhere obviously, and sale prices would throw these numbers out the window. Load data was for a 158gr Hornady xtp on Hodgdons website, and a 158gr gold dot on Alliants website.
Cost of powder per loaded round using Titegroup is about .015 cents, .05 for 2400, and .064 using H110.
This works out to about $1.75 more per box of fifty using 2400, or about $2.50 more per box of fifty using H110.
So the savings can be significant over the long run, but I personally would choose a higher margin of safety.
I personally use W231 in my 38spcl and 357mag loads as well as H110 in 357mag. For comparison using 231 at max charge in the 357mag would be about .02 cents per round (I got my last purchase of W231 for $20 per pound), or .25 cents per box of fifty compared to using Titegroup. Current pricing on Midway would have you at .028 cents per round, or about .65 cents more per box of fifty.
Again, always start low and work your loads up carefully.
chris
ShootMeStraight
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I haven't found a more accurate load in my 357, 44 and 500 than I get with 2400.
Random 8
Member
If you want some economy with still decent powered loads, HS-6 or Unique will get you there. I use these 2 for hard cast 158s. They can get downright steamy with lighter jacketed bullets...as fast as I care to push them. As others have noted, 2400 or H110 are the go-to powders for full power loads.
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Charlie98
Member
I'll get cheap on things like bullets or brass... or my time... but something that affects the bottom line on a box of reloads to the extent it does? Naaaa.... Powder is one of those things that puts me in my Happy Place... there are certain powders that I really like for certain things, and that's what I go with. IMR4227 is one of those, it's stupid expensive compared to Unique in the .41 Mag, where I use it primarily in carbine loads, but we have this thing goin' on...
ShootMeStraight
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Actual economy is not an issue for me. I will take a little more propellant and a more stable or matched load over what is a small savings ultimately.. And this is coming from someone that is basically cheap.
In that case I would be using N110 for 357, 44 and 500.
Lee Q. Loader
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In this case then I feel the clerk at the store did you a favor.
2400 is a powder that makes a .357 mag "as it is meant to". Titegroup doesn't even come close to that goal.
I've been using 2400 for 20 years now and it is my favorite powder for .357, .44 Mag and SPL. One of the things I try to do when choosing a powder is use something that fills the case. It burns better and there is less chance of a kaboom.
Legionnaire
Contributing Member
I like 2400 for full power loads, Unique for medium-strong loads, and Trail Boss for lighter loads. These powders work equally well in .357 and .44 magnums.
Tightgroup is a fast powder that is fine for low velocity target loads. To reach typical magnum loads for your .357 mag you need to use a slower powder. You can get the relative difference in burn rate by looking up the powder burn rate chart.
The .357 mag loads on Hodgdon's website with Tightgroup show velocities up to 1,200 fps with 158gr bullet but when you read all the information their data is taken from a 10" barrel, an exceptionally long barrel for the typical revolver. A factory load from Winchester, Remington, and Federal will do 1,240+ fps from a 4" revolver which is easy to duplicate safely with slower powders like 2400, AA9, H110/W296 and others with similar burn rates. Tightgroup isn't able to provide a safe load that will be equivalent to factory ,357 mag ammo of any bullet weight.
To illustrate Tightgroup vs a slower powder in the .357 mag. 2 loads I chrono'd from the same revolver, a 4" S&W Model 66 using the same brand of 158gr commercial cast LSWC's and CCI primers. The Tightgroup load was 4.7gr and the slower AA9 powder was 12.3gr. The average velocities measured was 877 fps from the Tightgroup load and 1,268 fps from the AA9 load.
The .357 mag loads on Hodgdon's website with Tightgroup show velocities up to 1,200 fps with 158gr bullet but when you read all the information their data is taken from a 10" barrel, an exceptionally long barrel for the typical revolver. A factory load from Winchester, Remington, and Federal will do 1,240+ fps from a 4" revolver which is easy to duplicate safely with slower powders like 2400, AA9, H110/W296 and others with similar burn rates. Tightgroup isn't able to provide a safe load that will be equivalent to factory ,357 mag ammo of any bullet weight.
To illustrate Tightgroup vs a slower powder in the .357 mag. 2 loads I chrono'd from the same revolver, a 4" S&W Model 66 using the same brand of 158gr commercial cast LSWC's and CCI primers. The Tightgroup load was 4.7gr and the slower AA9 powder was 12.3gr. The average velocities measured was 877 fps from the Tightgroup load and 1,268 fps from the AA9 load.
Charlie98
Member
I actually prefer this burn rate chart... it shows powder in a more relative list, that is... not numerically in order, but in relationship to other powders. It's a little old, it doesn't show some of the newer powders like BE-86 and Sport Pistol, but it gets you an idea. The first time I saw this chart, a very big lightbulb went off in my head... comprehending burn rates of powders.
https://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/burn_rates.pdf
https://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/burn_rates.pdf
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Chillydog
Member
Anybody have experience with IMR4227 in a 4” 686? 124 and 158 gr XTP. On my list to try but haven’t done it yet.
Olon
Member
My favorites are Blue Dot and Trailboss.
I tried a pound of IMR4227 about 20 years or so ago. It worked but did not set my life on fire. Many folks like it for 357 Magnum but I'm happy with W296/H110 for my full power 357 Magnum loads.
Give it a try, it has alot of good history.
buck460XVR
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IME, IMR4227 likes heavy bullets, heavy crimps and long pipes. It may work okay with the 158 grainer, but I'd be suspect with the 124(125?) I also have my best luck with IMR4227 at or at nearly compressed. It is my go to hunting powder in my .460 revolver and .44 carbines, but it seems to like those larger capacity cases better than the little .357.
Catpop
Member
4227 needs to be run at top of scale to prevent those pesty residue kernals from locking up the DA ejector plate- like on my GP100. Other than that it’s a great substitute for 2400- my favorite top end powder.
Unique is my go to for range use, followed by Universal.
Oh, both work quite well with boolits!
Jmho
Unique is my go to for range use, followed by Universal.
Oh, both work quite well with boolits!
Jmho
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When i first started reloading i bought a pound of tite group. I hated it because i could never get it to meter right, and it scared me because of the ease of double charging.
Ive since gotten better equiptment, and its my go to for 9mm, .40 s&w, .38 spcl, and lighter 357 loads. It performs well, and just like the bottle claims, a little really does go a long way. You just really need to be careful while throwing charges. While a half a grain here or there wont be dangerous, a double fill will be.
As far as 2400 goes, i also always have that on hand. My full hous mag loads have yet to be beaten by anything but 2400. I also load for alot of trapdoor/rolling block 45-70 rifles. 2400 seems to do a good job of keeping pressures safe and burning fairly clean. (In all honesty, an unclean burn never bothered me much as long as the load performes. All my guns besides the ones i hunt with get cleaned after a shooting session anyway.)
As said before .357 is an easy cartridge to double fill with almost any powder. I always listen to music while im sizing and priming. But when i start throwing charges i turn it off. I tell my wife dont bother me for the next half hour/hour. It may seem like overkill but ive caught myself picking up already filled cases while metering. Another trick i use is seperate loading trays while metering (assuming youre loading single stage.) One for empty cases and one for filled. Tite group isnt a scary powder. There are lots of other powders just as fussy, i think titegroup gets a bad rap because its so versitile.
Ive since gotten better equiptment, and its my go to for 9mm, .40 s&w, .38 spcl, and lighter 357 loads. It performs well, and just like the bottle claims, a little really does go a long way. You just really need to be careful while throwing charges. While a half a grain here or there wont be dangerous, a double fill will be.
As far as 2400 goes, i also always have that on hand. My full hous mag loads have yet to be beaten by anything but 2400. I also load for alot of trapdoor/rolling block 45-70 rifles. 2400 seems to do a good job of keeping pressures safe and burning fairly clean. (In all honesty, an unclean burn never bothered me much as long as the load performes. All my guns besides the ones i hunt with get cleaned after a shooting session anyway.)
As said before .357 is an easy cartridge to double fill with almost any powder. I always listen to music while im sizing and priming. But when i start throwing charges i turn it off. I tell my wife dont bother me for the next half hour/hour. It may seem like overkill but ive caught myself picking up already filled cases while metering. Another trick i use is seperate loading trays while metering (assuming youre loading single stage.) One for empty cases and one for filled. Tite group isnt a scary powder. There are lots of other powders just as fussy, i think titegroup gets a bad rap because its so versitile.
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Mr_Flintstone
Member
I almost exclusively use IMR-4227 with 140 and 158 gr XTP in my 4” Model 19. It’s dead on accurate with upper middle loads, but does very good throughout the range; at least in my case. I’ve not noticed any unburned kernels, even when loading low end 357 or mid range 38 special and 158+ gr bullets with 4227; but I usually use a heavy roll crimp. You will run into incomplete burning with lighter bullets unless you run close to max.
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