What Constitutes Accurate Shooting

Status
Not open for further replies.
9

94045

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Messages
1,565
I often use the 15 Yard Range if it's available to avoid the blast from the AR's and the Full Autos. I shoot a mix of B29 Reduced Size Silhouettes (Speed) and B3 50-ft Targets (Precision).

What really constitutes precision? I get different answers from different people. I worry that I couldn't make a shot if I had to.

I was mostly working with my .45 Shield today and usually start with the precision shooting. I shot 25 Rounds of Gold Dot 230 gr "Seconds" today at 15 yards. Here are the results. Roughly a 4.25" Group. 3.5" if you give me a Mulligan on the most egregious flyer.

I that good, bad or mediocre? I see these 1" groups at 25 yards and it makes me think I will never get where I should be.

15 yards - 25 Rounds - .45 Shield
IMG_20200215_155109754_HDR_resize_91.jpg
 
That’d stop a bad guy for sure. Group looks good to me, certainly for self defense.

How fast is your draw and splits? To me that seems the next logical question.
 
My personal standard of acceptable accuracy for a defensive pistol (one I'd carry) is 4" at 50 yards (2" at 25 yards). My carry guns are usually a S&W M&P9 or a SIG 320 Compact. These are based on a 5-shot group. I'm not shooting using a rest, but using a two-handed grip from a roll-over prone position. A 1" group at 25 yards would usually entail using some kind of rest like a range bag.

If I'm standing unsupported, I'd expect my 50 yard group to be inside 6" (IDPA head) if I'm taking my time; 8" (IDPA "- O" body) if I'm shooting as soon as my sights return to POA
 
It's all pretty subjective, IMO.

I grew up in a family of above average shooters, so to me, that group is average if talking slow fire with a goal of getting as small a group as possible. If you are firing at a GSSF level of speed with about a second per shot under the stress of a match, then it's pretty darn good.

But I was just thinking the other day how I'm getting bored shooting. Putting holes in paper and getting tiny groups is getting old. I was thinking how I'm just no longer looking forward to going to the range and view it as another chore, like going to the gym, or changing the oil.

I used to love shooting with my family and spending time with firearms. So I started thinking about the most fun I had and it really is just shooting at reactive targets.

Going down to the cabin and setting up a dozen or so cans at varying distances and elevations on our dirt embankment range and shooting them as quickly as possible is not only fun, but much better practice for defensive shooting.
 
460Shooter said:
That’d stop a bad guy for sure. Group looks good to me, certainly for self defense.

How fast is your draw and splits? To me that seems the next logical question.
Click to expand...

I don't get an opportunity to work on my draw with live fire a lot (range rule issues unless they have a competition). I do work on draw and dry fire at home but I haven't actually timed it. Speed Fire for 5 shots (timer started by the first shot and ended by the last) roughly 1.1 seconds (.40 S&W M2.0 Compact) or 1.2 seconds (.45 Shield) in roughly 10" at 7 yards. Using gongs at 15 yards I either have to slow down or I miss a lot.
 
94045 said:
I don't get an opportunity to work on my draw with live fire a lot (range rule issues unless they have a competition). I do work on draw and dry fire at home but I haven't actually timed it. Speed Fire for 5 shots (timer started by the first shot and ended by the last) roughly 1.1 seconds (.40 S&W M2.0 Compact) or 1.2 seconds (.45 Shield) in roughly 10" at 7 yards. Using gongs at 15 yards I either have to slow down or I miss a lot.
Click to expand...
Well it’s just my opinion, but I think you’re doing just fine.

But it’s all relative and we all have different capacities for practice. 9mmepiphany’s post illustrates that nicely and his capabilities reflect that.

My focus has been on combat accuracy for a few years meaning I’m looking for center mass hits in a reasonable group as fast as I can put them there. I practice at 25 yards regularly and if I can muster a 5-6” group shooting fast, I feel alright about it. I mean that’s really crappy shooting by many standards, but I also know folks who couldn't hit the target at all at 25 yards. The scary part is they carry, and personally I think they are incompetent shooters.

At 15 yards I can usually muster a 3” group. At 10 yards I can usually muster a clover, but not all the time.

Again, I’m crap compared to a lot of shooters, like total crap, but I’m somewhat satisfied given the inconsistency in my practice. Sometimes I’m shooting 1000 rounds a month, and sometimes it’s considerably less.

I think the most important part is to push yourself every time you shoot. I don’t really plink or do the casual shooting thing. I’m purposeful each time.
 
Last edited:
Looks like a great group. I typically shoot DA revolvers and I am more than happy with worse groups than that. I had an 8 shot group of about 3.5 inches shooting a 2 inch n frame at 7 yards today. I was shooting as soon as my sights were back on target and I was happy with that. I know everybody on the internet could best me but I was satisfied.
 
A compact 45 with full power ammo?
I would say good shooting!

1" groups at 25 yards is for highly tuned autos, single shots and revolvers with master marksmen at the helm or from a good rest. (or it's a fish story, like the guy that claimed 2" groups at 300 yards with an AK(open sights))

My club's best handgun competition shooter could shoot real close to an inch at 25 yards (standing) with his tuned up Kimber 45 auto and good handloads, and he had no trouble mowing down half scale silhouettes out to 50 yards at a speed that left us slack jawed.

On a good day I can still keep 5 rounds under 5" at 50 yards. I can no longer do it with a 45 or full power 357, but I can with my 9mm Gov't model. (terrific trigger, soft recoil, master grade handloads ;))

Good days are only about 50% of my days now, but it's still fun chasing it.
 
PO2Hammer said:
A compact 45 with full power ammo?
I would say good shooting!

1" groups at 25 yards is for highly tuned autos, single shots and revolvers with master marksmen at the helm or from a good rest. (or it's a fish story, like the guy that claimed 2" groups at 300 yards with an AK(open sights))

My club's best handgun competition shooter could shoot real close to an inch at 25 yards (standing) with his tuned up Kimber 45 auto and good handloads, and he had no trouble mowing down half scale silhouettes out to 50 yards at a speed that left us slack jawed.

On a good day I can still keep 5 rounds under 5" at 50 yards. I can no longer do it with a 45 or full power 357, but I can with my 9mm Gov't model. (terrific trigger, soft recoil, master grade handloads ;))

Good days are only about 50% of my days now, but it's still fun chasing it.
Click to expand...
IMG_20200204_161916845_resize_50.jpg

Like that Offhand 7 Shot - 7 Yard - 0 75" Ruger LCP - Hornady XTP Group?

Yes it's legit. No it's not "average".
 
For me precision accuracy denotes slow fire. It can be offhand, prone or off a rest. Distance is relative. I do 99% of my shooting stand 2 handed off hand. I mix in some strong hand and weak hand only shooting as well. I am accurate shooting offhand at 15 yards. If I am slow firing I can keep everything easily in the black on B7 target. I do not consider myself a precision shooter.

If move out to 25 yards I am going to drop some shots. That said I can hit a clay pigeon sitting on a berm at 50 yards once I am dialed in. Generally within 10 rounds.

Now when we are talking about real precision shooting. I used what a precision pistol can do. A good pistol should be able to shoot sub 1” off a rest at 25 yards and 1.5” at 50 yards. So I think of precision shooting in reference to that.

If you can shoot 2” @ 50 yards you are precision shooting in my book. I however will never be able to do that.
 
Last edited:
Your pistol, its sight radius, and its sights may be your limitation. I think it depends on what you are going for. If it is defensive shooting, I believe minute of paper plate works for me. For true accuracy in a handgun, I break out a revolver with a 5.5 inch or better barrel. Some of the best shooters in the world may be able to shoot a snub nosed revolver at 50+ yards and get consistent results, but I don't have the time or the eyesight to match them.
 
IlikeSA said:
Your pistol, its sight radius, and its sights may be your limitation. I think it depends on what you are going for. If it is defensive shooting, I believe minute of paper plate works for me. For true accuracy in a handgun, I break out a revolver with a 5.5 inch or better barrel. Some of the best shooters in the world may be able to shoot a snub nosed revolver at 50+ yards and get consistent results, but I don't have the time or the eyesight to match them.
Click to expand...

I miss my eyesight from 40 years ago. I wasn't truly a great shot but empty shotgun hulls against the 25 yard berm and my DW 15-2 V 6" with Zero 148 WC made me look like one. Hammering lemons at 100 yards was fun too. But that's a different tool for a different job.
 
Seven yards as fast as you can shoot = cover it with your palm

15 yards a second per shot = cover it with a small paper plate for desserts

For SD, that's plenty good enough. For target shooting and contests, it seems that a postage stamp is your goal.

This is plenty good enough for SD. The target will be moving anyway. Yeah, those old Makarovs are pretty good shooters.

Makarov Target

Makarov Target

 
PO2Hammer said:
Didn't mean to imply anything negative about your shooting, I can't do that well myself with full power 45.
Last time I shot my USP 45 with ball ammo I was all over the place at 15 yards.
Click to expand...

I didn't mean to imply you where. I was just alluding to those "Hail Mary" Groups people post like the AK. The .45 Shield group is kind of average for me. The LCP was one of those days you can do no wrong. I didn't load a second mag in because I didn't want to screw it up!:)
 
Tallball said:
Seven yards as fast as you can shoot = cover it with your palm

15 yards a second per shot = cover it with a small paper plate for desserts

For SD, that's plenty good enough. For target shooting and contests, it seems that a postage stamp is your goal.

This is plenty good enough for SD. The target will be moving anyway. Yeah, those old Makarovs are pretty good shooters.

Makarov Target

Makarov Target

Click to expand...

Now see that's what my 15 Yard Group looks like (in my head).
 
94045 said:
Now see that's what my 15 Yard Group looks like (in my head).
Click to expand...

Maybe I missed it but where did he say that was at 15 yards.

This discussion is getting stupid. Context is everything when it comes to accuracy when we are talking subjective shooting. Distance, speed, rested, prone offhand etc... without context this becomes a circle jerk.

If you are talking about pure accuracy you are measuring your deviation from sub 1” at 25 and 1.5” at 50 because that is what the good guns are capable of. This is the measure of your precision IMHO.
 
Last edited:
Bragging targets from Bullseye Pistol Shooters:

okgU2U3.jpg

VOPjztG.jpg

9uK7aUJ.jpg

One day at CMP Talladega, the targets are at 50 yards

hi4HdlC.jpg

This is the 22lr match, the electronic targets of a two time Bullseye National Champion. The ten ring is four inches in diameter at 50 yards and 25 yards. Based on my research the slow fire targets were moved out because there were too many unbreakable ties at 25 yards, and that was in the 1950's. The only real difference between the 25 yard target and the 50 yard target is the size of the black.

Anyway, this is what a real good shooter can do. With one hand, standing.

OamtSYz.jpg

This is a target from a shooter with a President's 100 patch. He is good, and I scored him. That day we fired all 270 rounds for record at 25 yards. All shots fired standing with one hand.

sZLvG4e.jpg

This is the course of fire for a 2700 Bullseye match

DiglvlS.jpg
 
WVsig said:
Maybe I missed it but where did he say that was at 15 yards.

This discussion is getting stupid. Context is everything when it comes to accuracy. Distance, speed, rested, prone offhand etc... without context this becomes a circle jerk.
Click to expand...

Okay 7-Yards as fast as you can shoot (based on context of post). I still can't do it.
 
Slamfire said:
Bragging targets from Bullseye Pistol Shooters:

View attachment 892231

View attachment 892232

View attachment 892233

One day at CMP Talladega, the targets are at 50 yards

View attachment 892234

This is the 22lr match, the electronic targets of a two time Bullseye National Champion. The ten ring is four inches in diameter at 50 yards and 25 yards. Based on my research the slow fire targets were moved out because there were too many unbreakable ties at 25 yards, and that was in the 1950's. The only real difference between the 25 yard target and the 50 yard target is the size of the black.

Anyway, this is what a real good shooter can do. With one hand, standing.

View attachment 892235

This is a target from a shooter with a President's 100 patch. He is good, and I scored him. That day we fired all 270 rounds for record at 25 yards. All shots fired standing with one hand.

View attachment 892236

This is the course of fire for a 2700 Bullseye match

View attachment 892237
Click to expand...

That is what I am talking about.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

9
  • Locked
Am I Ready to Move Beyond 7 Yards
2
Replies
27
Views
1K
cougar1717
cougar1717
S
  • Locked
Most Accurate Auto Cartridge - .25ACP?
Replies
5
Views
853
The Lone Haranguer
T
lpsharp88
  • Locked
Looks Like I'm Getting a 45 Shield
Replies
8
Views
754
the duck of death
T
J
  • Locked
Which Polymer 45 ACP are you enjoying for target shooting
2 3 4
Replies
81
Views
5K
Bentonville
B
C
  • Locked
Accurize my 92FS, or buy new?
Replies
3
Views
1K
ChuckB
C
Back
Top