Powder measure? Is there more to it?

Darth-Vang · Feb 17, 2020

Hey all. I know this is a powder measure. But the “outer” brass can slide in and out and has the grooved lines to which it can “stop”. What is the purpose of that?

Elkins45 · Feb 17, 2020

That’s to adjust the charge weight. Usually every click is 10 grains. Used only with black powder or substitutes for muzzleloading rifles. I have a similar one that starts at 50 grains and goes up to like 90 or 100...I haven’t used it in a long time.

Not sure why this is posted in the NFA forum.

Darth-Vang · Feb 17, 2020

Elkins45 said:
That’s to adjust the charge weight. Usually every click is 10 grains. Used only with black powder or substitutes for muzzleloading rifles. I have a similar one that starts at 50 grains and goes up to like 90 or 100...I haven’t used it in a long time.

Not sure why this is posted in the NFA forum.

I wasn’t sure where to post this since it wasn’t a firearm. Lol Really? So it adjusts but how? There’s nothing to “fill” up the space when moving the adjuster? Can you explain more?

troy fairweather · Feb 17, 2020

I believe that one is 80-120 grains.

Elkins45 · Feb 17, 2020

Doesn’t it look like this when you pull the bottom out?

Each click when you pull it out increases the volume. It’s already filled in as much as it gets in the position in your photo.

Darth-Vang · Feb 17, 2020

Elkins45 said:
Doesn’t it look like this when you pull the bottom out?

View attachment 892861

Each click when you pull it out increases the volume. It’s already filled in as much as it gets in the position in your photo.

Yes it does. It looks just like that.

Elkins45 · Feb 17, 2020

Darth-Vang said:
Yes it does. It looks just like that.

So it’s at the smallest volume when pushed all the way in. Each click makes the internal cavity bigger so it holds 10 grains more powder. You pour your powder up to the top of the cavity, level it off, then pour it into the rifle. It doesn’t get filled in to adjust, it just gets a larger cavity.

https://accessories.tcarms.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/powder-measures-all-instructions.pdf

Darth-Vang · Feb 17, 2020

Elkins45 said:
So it’s at the smallest volume when pushed all the way in. Each click makes the internal cavity bigger so it holds 10 grains more powder. You pour your powder up to the top of the cavity, level it off, then pour it into the rifle. It doesn’t get filled in to adjust, it just gets a larger cavity.

https://accessories.tcarms.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/powder-measures-all-instructions.pdf

Oh! Okay I see what you’re saying now. Makes sense. I’m going to see how much powder it can hold max. Thank you for your replies!

troy fairweather · Feb 17, 2020

Black powder by volume not weight.

jmorris · Feb 18, 2020

Not sure why this is posted in the NFA forum.

Because the BP forum is right above it.

I found this to be helpful.

dave951 · Feb 18, 2020

troy fairweather said:
Black powder by volume not weight.

Sort of. This is what many think but if you're serious about accuracy and/or shoot competition, you'll weigh the charges just like smokeless and use the best grade powder you can buy.

Here's the reason- BP grainule size varies by "F" meaning 1F is larger than 2F is larger than 3F is larger than 4F. Yes, there are grades larger than 1F for artillery, but back to the explanation. When purchasing BP, just like gas, there are "grades" of quality. There's "Reenactor Grade" (basically crap for blanks), Goex ("red can") Schutzen and Grafs and they're ok but just as there is better gas than regular, there's better BP. From the Goex line there's Old Eynsford, a very good competition powder. From the Schutzen line, there's Swiss, widely acknowledged by serious competitors to be the best available. What happens when you buy the cheap stuff, you get more "fines" mixed in with the "F" stated on the can. That can, and will, affect your muzzle velocity and accuracy. Fines are grains that are smaller than those listed on the can. Use a mesh screen to sieve some powder and you'll see it. Buy cheapo "Reenactor grade" and no telling how consistent the size is. I'm convinced it's just the leftovers from the powder making process.

So the upshot, if measuring by volume with a cheap grade powder, you can get some "fines" leading to a higher charge weight than you think you were measuring. That extra powder can cause muzzle velocity variations. Measuring by weight can eliminate this to some degree. Some time back, I did an experiment to convince myself. I shot charges loaded by weight against some loaded by volume using standard "red can" Goex, and yes, the weighed were more accurate. If you're not doing target competition work, you probably won't see it. If you're trying to win, you will try to control every possible variable.

troy fairweather · Feb 18, 2020

dave951 said:
Sort of. This is what many think but if you're serious about accuracy and/or shoot competition, you'll weigh the charges just like smokeless and use the best grade powder you can buy.

Here's the reason- BP grainule size varies by "F" meaning 1F is larger than 2F is larger than 3F is larger than 4F. Yes, there are grades larger than 1F for artillery, but back to the explanation. When purchasing BP, just like gas, there are "grades" of quality. There's "Reenactor Grade" (basically crap for blanks), Goex ("red can") Schutzen and Grafs and they're ok but just as there is better gas than regular, there's better BP. From the Goex line there's Old Eynsford, a very good competition powder. From the Schutzen line, there's Swiss, widely acknowledged by serious competitors to be the best available. What happens when you buy the cheap stuff, you get more "fines" mixed in with the "F" stated on the can. That can, and will, affect your muzzle velocity and accuracy. Fines are grains that are smaller than those listed on the can. Use a mesh screen to sieve some powder and you'll see it. Buy cheapo "Reenactor grade" and no telling how consistent the size is. I'm convinced it's just the leftovers from the powder making process.

So the upshot, if measuring by volume with a cheap grade powder, you can get some "fines" leading to a higher charge weight than you think you were measuring. That extra powder can cause muzzle velocity variations. Measuring by weight can eliminate this to some degree. Some time back, I did an experiment to convince myself. I shot charges loaded by weight against some loaded by volume using standard "red can" Goex, and yes, the weighed were more accurate. If you're not doing target competition work, you probably won't see it. If you're trying to win, you will try to control every possible variable.

My statement was towards the op's powder measure, not target shooting.

dave951 · Feb 18, 2020

troy fairweather said:
My statement was towards the op's powder measure, not target shooting.

Yup, but to say that volume measuring is the "only" way to measure black powder is misleading to those who don't know the difference between various grades of black powder.

troy fairweather · Feb 18, 2020

dave951 said:
Yup, but to say that volume measuring is the "only" way to measure black powder is misleading to those who don't know the difference between various grades of black powder.

For someone like the op who does not know much about bp volume is all he needs to know.

woodnbow · Feb 18, 2020

troy fairweather said:
For someone like the op who does not know much about bp volume is all he needs to know.

Yep, that’s enough to get him going.

A year or so down the line he’ll be ready to argue authoritatively the comparative virtues of spit vs. bore butter vs. sperm whale oil. And Swiss Holy Black vs. Satanic Grey (Pyrodex) vs. Trip 7... and should it be cleaned with hot or tepid water, windex, (with or without ammonia) a commercial concoction, the original formula of Moose Milk (not YOUR formulation, mine predates it by 20 years easily!) and should he go the extra mile wiping down with a blend of African beeswax and extra virgin jojoba oil using clarified whales foreskin on a Hawaiian Koa wiping stick...

Best we not spoil the journey for him. So yes, it’s a powder measure and yes, there’s “more to it”... so much more...

Darth-Vang · Feb 18, 2020

I know much about the blackpowder and the blackpowder substitutes. Just not the unusual powder measure I got here. I understand the grades, density differences between blackpowder substitutes and “real” blackpowder. And then you got different company brands using different secret blends of ratio in theirs thus giving possible differences in weight and density etc etc etc... and you also got ratio to ratio by VOLUME. Yeah I know. XD I really do. Lol

woodnbow · Feb 19, 2020

Darth-Vang said:
I know much about the blackpowder and the blackpowder substitutes. Just not the unusual powder measure I got here. I understand the grades, density differences between blackpowder substitutes and “real” blackpowder. And then you got different company brands using different secret blends of ratio in theirs thus giving possible differences in weight and density etc etc etc... and you also got ratio to ratio by VOLUME. Yeah I know. XD I really do. Lol

Welcome to the club!

TheOutlawKid · Feb 19, 2020

Pshh Everyone knows clarified whales foreskin is yesterdays news....and synthetic whales foreskin is better anyways.

woodnbow · Feb 20, 2020

TheOutlawKid said:
Pshh Everyone knows clarified whales foreskin is yesterdays news....and synthetic whales foreskin is better anyways.

Heretic! Burn him at a curly maple stake!

Old Stumpy · Mar 7, 2020

Elkins45 said:
That’s to adjust the charge weight. Usually every click is 10 grains.

Also changes the whistle note when you blow across the top to amuse yourself.

Powder measure? Is there more to it?

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