Forged upper exploding into "shards" as opposed to chunks with billet upper?

AR receivers dont usually "explode" into chunks or slivers, they tend to peel like a banana.

Owww.....
(Do you have the link(s) for these failures?)

WTS are you guys doing to your ARs ? We all have and shoot ARs around here, and none of them have ever come apart like that.

Is that from hard, repeated mag dumps, or something?

Those are likely ARs chambered for .223/5.56 that were loaded with .300 BO.

Dibbs said:

WTS are you guys doing to your ARs ? We all have and shoot ARs around here, and none of them have ever come apart like that.

Is that from hard, repeated mag dumps, or something?

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Under no normal conditions should an AR ever blow up catastrophically like that, but with literally millions of them having been produced, accidents will happen. As stated above the most common cause that I have heard of is someone firing a 300 blackout in a 5.56, or someone shooting into a cleaning rod or otherwise plugged barrel. Fortunately in the rare instances that an AR does blow up it usually seams to leave the owner with a pile of junk and a story to tell rather than major injuries. Its a very safe platform.

One of the things that makes the AR different than a lot of other designs (until recently) is that the bolt locks into the barrel extension rather than the upper itself. That tends to produce the results of what NIGHTLORD40k shows.

If the bolt of the AR locked into an aluminum receiver, then problems.

Occasionally you will get an out of battery firing that will do some damage as well. The whole .300 BO thing is why I don't have one due to ammo mixups nor do I have a .40 cal handgun which some folks have mistakenly fired in a .45 ACP. Do have both 20 and 12 gage shotguns but the color kind of gives that away.

I've seen the after-results of a 20 ga lodged in a 12 ga bore when a shot was fired, but never a total AR upper fail like those .

Stay safe.

MEHavey said:

Owww.....
(Do you have the link(s) for these failures?)

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Naw, just a quick search. Youll see these and dozens more, although as Someguy said, its still a very small percentage of the millions out there. I did follow up on the first one pictured, it was the result of a live round fired into a squib load obstructing the bore, apparently.

I would venture that the the AR is still statistically safer thsn a .40 Glock, which has many documented failures, mostly caused by cheap brass causing case blowouts at the feed ramp.

At the end of the day, everytime you pull a trigger over a live round, its setting off a small explosion and Chaos Theory gets a chance to play dice with Murphys Law......

And thats why we wear eye protection!

BullHeadedGideon said:

Now it's looking like my co-worker meant to say the BCG.

Does THIS sound right??

Forged BCG splintering during a kaboom vs billet BCG breaking off into chunks???

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Sounds like a classic case of being called on BS and trying to redirect to save face.

Forged AR receivers are tougher because the grain pattern follows the pattern of the receiver. The grain in a billet is just straight from end to end. When machined, the gain is interrupted.

The fact that AR receivers don't explode into shards when they kaboom brings into question the claim they they do.

BullHeadedGideon said:

Now it's looking like my co-worker meant to say the BCG.

Does THIS sound right??

Forged BCG splintering during a kaboom vs billet BCG breaking off into chunks???

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Even dumber than the first go ‘round.

boom boom said:

One of the things that makes the AR different than a lot of other designs (until recently) is that the bolt locks into the barrel extension rather than the upper itself. That tends to produce the results of what NIGHTLORD40k shows.

If the bolt of the AR locked into an aluminum receiver, then problems.

Occasionally you will get an out of battery firing that will do some damage as well. The whole .300 BO thing is why I don't have one due to ammo mixups nor do I have a .40 cal handgun which some folks have mistakenly fired in a .45 ACP. Do have both 20 and 12 gage shotguns but the color kind of gives that away.

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Shooting .40 in a .45 does no harm to the firearm or shooter. The brass however....

BullHeadedGideon said:

Ok, he came in early to work today, so I was able to catch up with him.

I was right the first time - he says that in the event of a kaboom, forged upper receivers with splinter. As opposed to a billet upper just breaking off into chunks. Sorry for the whiplash, guys.

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I think your co-worker is one of those guys that thinks he knows more about stuff then he really does.

BullHeadedGideon said:

Ok, he came in early to work today, so I was able to catch up with him.

I was right the first time - he says that in the event of a kaboom, forged upper receivers with splinter. As opposed to a billet upper just breaking off into chunks. Sorry for the whiplash, guys.

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He speaks not of what he knows.

BullHeadedGideon said:

Ok, he came in early to work today, so I was able to catch up with him.

I was right the first time - he says that in the event of a kaboom, forged upper receivers with splinter. As opposed to a billet upper just breaking off into chunks. Sorry for the whiplash, guys.

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No big deal. That is how we learn (not just you, but everyone). More than likely someone else heard the same thing and might find this thread.

I wouldn't have thought aluminum would shatter unless it was cast, but I am no metals expert.

This is one of those cases where you just smile and nod and then go about what you were already going to do.

BullHeadedGideon said:

Now it's looking like my co-worker meant to say the BCG.

Does THIS sound right??

Forged BCG splintering during a kaboom vs billet BCG breaking off into chunks???

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I'd say this falls into my Ol' Man's mantra territory of; "A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing..."

Seems he misheard or misinterpreted or misapplied something..... This, I say generously.

Todd.

<rambling>
Forging aluminum is primarily a cheap way to quickly get a rough shape. The gains in yield strength of forge aluminum are marginal at best compared to properly heat treated billets. A piece of forged 7075 is going to have roughly the same yield strength as 7075-T651 heat treated billet, but the forging is only going to have that yield strength in locations and directions where there was enough material movement during the forging process to produce that much work hardening. The heat treated billet will be that strong uniformly throughout the material in all directions. It all about cheap net-shape and not material properties when forging aluminum in most cases.

As far as reducing fragments during a self disassembly event, aluminium is always going to fail as a ductile metal no mater how "hard" you try to make it. There will be no substantial fragmentation difference between a forge or billet aluminum of the same alloy. Cast aluminum will likely produce a bit more fragments but again it is still a fairly ductile metal.

Now with steel this become a more interesting discussion.
</rambling>

Shooting .40 in a .45 does no harm to the firearm or shooter. The brass however....

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Neither does shooting 9mm in a .40. Years ago, a couple of guys were next to me shooting a new Glock. They were complaining about poor accuracy and having lots of malfunctions. Turns out they had brought along 9mm ammo instead of .40S&W. It worked well enough for them to struggle almost through a box of 50

mcb said:

...Forging aluminum is primarily a cheap way to quickly get a rough shape. The gains in yield strength of forge aluminum are marginal at best compared to properly heat treated billets. A piece of forged 7075 is going to have roughly the same yield strength as 7075-T651 heat treated billet, but the forging is only going to have that yield strength in locations and directions where there was enough material movement during the forging process to produce that much work hardening. The heat treated billet will be that strong uniformly throughout the material in all directions. It all about cheap net-shape and not material properties when forging aluminum in most cases...

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Having the grain follow the shape of the part lends strength to it. For example Boeing was trying to make a windscreen frame for one of their commercial airliners out of billet because it was easy to machine. The frame kept cracking where the machining interrupted the grain. Casting didn't work either. It wasn't until they forged it so the grain flowed around with the shape of the frame that they got it to work.

It's like wood. Cut a frame out of a single piece of wood and the frame will crack along the grain where it was was interrupted by the cut.

BullHeadedGideon said:

Hello guys & gals.

I've got a co-worker that's saying it's smarter to get a billet upper, as oppsed to a forged upper, because in the off-chance it blows up, a billet upper will "explode" into chunks of metal, rather than shards/slivers of metal.

Has anybody ever heard of this? Or has experience with this?

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Speaking as an engineer, this sounds like backyard engineering horse pucky.

I don't suppose they provided any credible links?