Rock Island 1911s...

I'm satisfied with my RIA GI 1911. Even at age 66 the sights work fine for me at 7-10 yards. A dab of whiteout or hunter orange nail polish on the front sight helps. I swapped out the grips and mainspring housing (Arched vs flat) to make it look more like a GI 1911A1.

12Bravo20 said:

Armscor, the actual manufacturer of Rock Island Armory and Citadel 1911s, uses old Colt machines to produce Series 70 pistols.

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I have heard this comment and can find nothing that really can confirm or deny the validity of the statements.

But when I hear this I would like to offer a thought.

Colt introduced the series 70 in an attempt to improve the accuracy of the 1911 of the day. The equipment Colt had in production was decades old and really causing issues with pin holes not lining up and creating an issue getting the necessary fit.
The equipment used necessitated a large amount of skilled manual labor.

So do we really think Colt sold Armscor worn out equipment and then Armscor was able to take that equipment and produce the 1911’s they sell today?

I love Colt’s and have been shooting them since the 70’s. But in reality the guns made in that time frame where not that great and no where near the quality currently being produced.

If I truly thought that to be true I would stay very far away from anything made on old Colt equipment. (Making the leap they would not sell a competitor the latest and greatest)

I would like to hear other thoughts on this.

Buy yours from a shop that you can physically inspect before you buy. Check barrel hood movement etc. I have 2 RIA 1911s, one has good barrel/slide fit but the other shows slight hood movement which is not unusual for mass production 1911s. May affect accuracy, mine shoots ok.

Rock Island is awesome. It’s my favorite pistol.

Well let me correct myself. Armscor did use Colt machines at one time. A lot of US companies helped set up different industries in the Philippines after WWII. Armscor does use modern CNC machines now.

Another fact about Armscor, they also have made frames and parts used by several US manufacturers for US made 1911s. STI and Auto Ordnance are two that have used Armscor frames and parts.

12Bravo20 said:

STI and Auto Ordnance are two that have used Armscor frames and parts.

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STI didn't use parts and frames to build the Trojan, Armscor made the gun to STI's Specs. It was only sold for a short time.

As others have said, I'd definitely get one with the sights you want. When I was shopping for mine, I wanted regular 3 dot sights (not night sights) because I always paint the front dots orange and the rear yellow for contrast. I ended up getting a Springfield Loaded which was little more expensive than the RIAs. I was planning on an RIA but got a small boost in my budget so bumped up. Anyway, I actually had to go stainless on the Loaded to get 3 dot sights since the black finish one only came with night sights. I like the stainless look, but didn't really NEED it aside from the 3 dot sights.

So, thumbs up.for RIA. I have a compact Lipseys Special in FDE Cerakote that is well made, performs well, and was value for money. I would but another. My additional two cents:

GI sights suck;

I very much dislike the alleged Parkerized finish on their GI models. "Rattlecan black" would be a more accurate description;

I found the GIs to have sharp edges, especially in trigger and safety. So, handle one before you buy, or factor in cost of changing these parts out.

I have an Armscor Citadel 1911 in 38 Super, and while it isn't quite as nice as my Sig, it is still reliable & accurate. It was also the only 38 Super handgun available when I was looking for one aside from Taurus.

Form everything I've heard RIA 1911's are good to go. One note on GI sights, yes, they're hard to pick up, however, because the front blade is so thin, they can be very accurate. I changed the sights out on my Sistema to night sights, and while target acquisition is much faster, the fine grain accuracy has suffered a bit out past 15-20 yards. The other thing...be careful, as mentioned 1911s have a way snowballing, change out the grips, maybe a new recoil spring, and of course a handful of magazines, and then perhaps a trigger job, and a new barrel and bushing, and hey, you know what?...why not get it Ceracoated? New sights, guide rod et cetera, ad infinitum.....ad nauseam. Yeah, my most expensive handgun is my least expensive 1911. That being said, I've loved every step of the process, and now have a rock solid workhorse that is a joy to shoot

tarosean said:

STI didn't use parts and frames to build the Trojan, Armscor made the gun to STI's Specs. It was only sold for a short time.

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The STI Spartan was an Armscor frame with a STI slide.

Either way, there is nothing wrong with an Armscor made 1911 and Rock Island Armory has great customer service (if needed)

12Bravo20 said:

The STI Spartan was an Armscor frame with a STI slide.

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It was indeed the Spartan. I was incorrect with the Trojan name.

Had an ria 45 that ran fantastic. Had a 9mm ria that I couldn't get through 100 rounds without a fte double stuff.

I love my ati 1911 Commander in 9mm. But yes, they are more finicky than 45 acp 1911's.

I have since changed magazines on my 9mm 1911 to cmc and Wilson combat magazines. They have reduced the number of ftf/fte malfunctions, but they haven't been eliminated. On my 45 acp firearms, none of them have malfunctioned after 100's of rounds.

It makes for good fun on the range, but it's the only firearm I have that I can't say I would carry for personal protection because of the jams I've encountered.

I've thought about obtaining a RIA 9mm 1911, but hesitate for fear of having the same issues.

There's always that guy in a thread that has an opposite opinion, and I guess it's my turn to be that guy. I have a Citadel that was so surprisingly tightly fitted, slide-to-frame-wise, that I just had to buy it. Wow, an inexpensive 1911 that has had some attention paid to its assembly? I'm in! And it was a great shooter for a couple hundred rounds or so.

Then it started doing a weird thing where it would lock up during chambering. It'd get to within a quarter-inch of being fully in battery and just stop. I'd encountered that kind of thing before with extractor problems, but this was different-- it was seriously locked up. Couldn't push the slide forward, couldn't pull it back. I'd have to bang the barrel end of the slide pretty hard, like against a table or something, to get it loose. Doing stuff like that with a live round involved makes me nervous, so I didn't much like that state of affairs. After much fiddling and examination, I finally figured out the that slot in the frame where the lugs and barrel link go was deforming during firing, enough so that it would seize the lugs and bring the action to a halt. Filing the inside of the slot would relieve the problem for a hundred rounds or so, and then it would do it again. So I stripped the frame for parts. What's left is still in a drawer somewhere.

And then there was the RIA Compact. It, too, had the hesitation-on-chambering issue, but this was of the usual extractor-based variety. I figured that wasn't a big deal, I'd had plenty of experience messing with extractors due to my error in buying a SA GI 1911, so I bought a good one (I think it was a Wilson) to set up and put in there. Ha! When I finally coaxed the original extractor out, I shone a light down its cubbyhole and discovered that the channel had apparently been created by very tiny rabid beavers. It wasn't just rough, it was rough in the way a rasp file is rough, though not as evenly distributed. There were plainly visible gouges and ridges and sharp places. So I did the best I could with the new extractor, but it never was quite right, and I gave that one away to a friend after warning him about the problem.

It could be that I am the one and only person to have accidentally bought Armscor's only two lemons ever produced, in which case you're safe in buying one. If so, you're welcome, that's what friends are for, and I'm glad I could help you out. But I won't buy another.

American_Fusilier said:

So I am looking to get into the 1911 world. This wouldn't be a carry gun or a home defense gun, but a bit of Americana. I just want a cheap 1911 to have a 1911. It wouldn't be my main hand gun.

I saw the Rock Island Armory GI M1911 replica, and it seemed pretty nice, I especially liked that $399 price tag. Plus I hear they run like a top.

I mean no offense, but please don't tell me to "just spend the money" on an expensive gun... I'm not going to buy a Colt, Remington, or Kimber, or any of the custom shop 1911 with the ridiculous price tags.

There were a couple other entry level 1911s, including a Springfield, that were nice (plus that one was actually made in America).

But my main question is, does anybody have any experience with RIA 1911s? If so, yay or nay? Does it run good? Good accuracy? If not, what other entry level 1911s would you recommend.

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I suggest you read my comments in this thread, and read between the lines to understand what I am trying to say w/o starting a "there is nothing w/ a low-cost 1911" war. One of the 1911 sites needs to come up w/ a list that shows the relative quality of all 1911s based on their manufacture. People would be shocked and would be horrified if they really understood the lack of long-term quality in a $400 vs even a $1000 gun, although I think you need to cross the $2000 threshold for a new 1911 w/ all-forged parts, vs a cast gun and MIM parts. If you read between the lines, you will not buy an RIA.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/1911-recomendation-and-experiences.863728/

AZAndy said:

It could be that I am the one and only person to have accidentally bought Armscor's only two lemons ever produced

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How long ago was this and did you contact Armscor customer service?

AZAndy said:

There's always that guy in a thread that has an opposite opinion, and I guess it's my turn to be that guy. I have a Citadel that was so surprisingly tightly fitted, slide-to-frame-wise, that I just had to buy it. Wow, an inexpensive 1911 that has had some attention paid to its assembly? I'm in! And it was a great shooter for a couple hundred rounds or so.

It could be that I am the one and only person to have accidentally bought Armscor's only two lemons ever produced, in which case you're safe in buying one. If so, you're welcome, that's what friends are for, and I'm glad I could help you out. But I won't buy another.

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^^This^^

If someone buys a sub-$1k 1911,

*Expect it to be made of poorly cast and MIM parts. Was not shocked to learn that RIA is this type of gun. WAS shocked to learn that Ruger uses cast frames.

*Expect the square edges to start to round after 500-rounds due to an improperly heat-treated slide.

*Expect the slide to eventually crack, especially if you use +P ammo in it.

*Expect the tight (if they exist) tolerances to loosen-up, sights to fall off, and smaller parts to break far earlier than they should

*Don't expect a lifetime warranty

The bottom line is, You Get What You Pay For. If you don't pay much, don't expect much, because that is what you are going to get.

LiveLife said:

How long ago was this and did you contact Armscor customer service?

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That's a good point. Maybe I should have, in retrospect, but at the time, I'd recently done the send-the-Taurus-back-repeatedly thing and didn't want to do that anymore. Wound up giving that one away, too, since they couldn't fix it. I spent half as much on shipping as the gun cost in that little fiasco. Yes, I know they're not the same company, but I reckon you can probably get my state of mind at the time. To answer part one of your question, it would have been about ten years ago. I got the RIA first, and was too ignorant at the time to know that Citadel was the same company or I wouldn't bought it in the first place.

Since your username used to be operating-system-related, and you have a Linux Mint logo, I think you can relate to my distaste for the "ship first, fix later" mentality that goes with the whole IT field, both software and hardware. ;-)

Kevin Rohrer said:

I suggest you read my comments in this thread, and read between the lines to understand what I am trying to say w/o starting a "there is nothing w/ a low-cost 1911" war. One of the 1911 sites needs to come up w/ a list that shows the relative quality of all 1911s based on their manufacture. People would be shocked and would be horrified if they really understood the lack of long-term quality in a $400 vs even a $1000 gun, although I think you need to cross the $2000 threshold for a new 1911 w/ all-forged parts, vs a cast gun and MIM parts. If you read between the lines, you will not buy an RIA.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/1911-recomendation-and-experiences.863728/

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I agree with you overall about quality having a cost, but $2000 might be a bit high. Dan Wessons aren't quite that much, and are all-forged from what I've read. Of course, they ain't no $600, either. ;-)

As someone who has had the front sight on their Ruger 1911 snap off during shooting, I'm with you on the anti-MIM sentiment, though it probably can be done right if a company cares enough. With some parts, like the grip safety, it probably doesn't matter that much as long as it's not balsa wood. With other parts, like a slide stop, it matters a lot.

AZAndy said:

When I finally coaxed the original extractor out, I shone a light down its cubbyhole and discovered that the channel had apparently been created by very tiny rabid beavers.

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As an aside... your description is "internet gold." Thanks for commenting!

Recent Armscor production seems to be of much higher quality. Maybe they have moved from tiny rabid beavers to better quality steel and well-maintained CNC machinery.

drband said:

Recent Armscor production seems to be of much higher quality. Maybe they have moved from tiny rabid beavers to better quality steel and well-maintained CNC machinery.

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I'm delighted to hear it. Someday I'm going to create a spreadsheet of companies that used to be horrible, but aren't anymore, and vice versa. Remington, Smith and Wesson, Colt, Charter Arms, and on and on... not to mention other outfits like Harley-Davidson and Ford. All the manufacturers seem to have had "on" eras and "off" eras. I've even heard that Taurus is better than it used to be, but I doubt I'm going to find out for myself. ;-)