Gloss black scopes

Bill460 said:

As consumers we've been pushed into accepting lesser quality crap

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Nobody's been 'pushed'. The consumers voted with their wallet, and the manufacturers responded. Manufacturers make whatever people will buy.

If people cared about gloss finishes, gun makers would make them (at greater cost) and sell them for more money than matte finished guns. The problem is that folk won't pay the extra money for the glossy model, so the manufacturer learns not to make them.

rbernie said:

Nobody's been 'pushed'.

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Sure they have. You have people right here on this thread that want them, but can't find them. Myself included. So what choice do we have? How about none. 20 years ago there were more choices than could be counted.

The only reason my new Weatherby Mark V Deluxe is sitting in my safe without a scope, is because of exactly as I stated. I can't find a low power model in a gloss finish. It would look stupid with a matte finish. And I didn't "vote" for anything.

And people still do like glossy guns. If they didn't Colt never would have brought back the Python. And Weatherby would have discontinued the Mark V Deluxe long ago. Not everyone jumps up and down over this dull, matte crap they're flooding the market with.

Bill460 said:

You have people right here on this thread that want them, but can't find them.

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Manufacturers will always be motivated to make what sells. That's what they do. They do things that make them money. They don't do things that don't make them money.

If enough people wanted gloss finishes, then manufacturers would make them (and figure out ways to make them for less cost). But when manufacturers started making matte finishes, skipping the finish polishing steps, and people kept buying the product - the manufacturer's learned that folk didn't seem to mind and weren't willing to pay extra for the more costly glossy finish.

As an example - for years, Remington kept the gloss finish 700's and Wingmaster 870's in the catalog along with the cheaper matte finished units. You know what sold by the metric buttload? The cheap matte units at Walmart. You know what didn't? The nicer-finished units. Sure, it may have been nicer / better had Remington figured out how to make a better finished gun for less money. But they took the easy way out - they hit a price point by reducing the quality of the product - and the strategy worked. People bought the cheap crap, and ignored the nicer stuff. You know what Remington learned? That folk mostly won't pay for better finish, and it wasn't worth trying to keep a separate stocked item for the few that were. Nobody *forced* the 870 Express buyer to buy the Express Model instead of the Wingmaster - the buyers made that choice freely, based entirely on price. The buyer drove the market dynamics, and (assuming that the market is open and free) that's usually the way that it works.

Same with Leupold, for example. They don't make many runs of gloss finish rifle scopes any more, because resellers can't move them and they collect dust on the shelves. If enough folk voted for nicer finishes with their wallet, then you'd have a marketplace full of nicer-finished products.

But it's not as if Leupold or Burris or Vortex are gonna make seventeen gloss scopes and seventeen thousand matte scopes, just to serve the market of those seventeen people who are willing to pay more for the glossy finish. If they did, y'all would just gripe that they did it in the wrong model.

Bill460 said:

And people still do like glossy guns. If they didn't Colt never would have brought back the Python. And Weatherby would have discontinued the Mark V Deluxe long ago. Not everyone jumps up and down over this dull, matte crap they're flooding the market with.

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Most people don’t seem to care about it as much as you seem to. I’ve always wanted a Weatherby Mark V LH in 257, but if I ever do buy one I won’t pay more for a shiny one. I’m one of those people who wants the dull, matte “crap” as long as it shoots just as well. Polishing on the outside costs money and doesn’t improve accuracy. If I’m going to pay for polishing I want it to be on the inside where it actually matters.

And the Python thing is as much about scarcity and snob appeal as it is the glossy finish.

Elkins45 said:

........And the Python thing is as much about scarcity and snob appeal as it is the glossy finish.

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Stop talking like a fool. Perhaps you can order your next car in primer only. It would seem to be right up your alley. People like you who feed off this cheap garbage, is a big part of the reason why we have so much of it.

Bill460 said:

Stop talking like a fool. Perhaps you can order your next car in primer only. It would seem to be right up your alley. People like you who feed off this cheap garbage, is a big part of the reason why we have so much of it.

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Copernicus just called: he said the universe doesn't revolve around you.

"Stop talking like a fool"

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"People like you"

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I’m picky about a lot of things. I’m not picky about putting a matte scope on a gloss barrel rifle thank goodness. Knowing my tastes it surprises me that it doesn’t bother me.

Reading this thread and also wondering why Leupold has quit making my two favorite scopes, I have to think they aren’t stupid and neither are most manufacturers. It’s a tough world and I find it hard to believe there is a much of a market for gloss scopes if they aren’t making them. Is S&B, Leica, Kahles, Zeiss and Swarovski making gloss scopes?

Screw the deer, I like purty guns. Gimme shiny walnut, deeeeeeepp blue, and a glossy scope. Plenty of ugly rifles in the safe to shoot deer with.

Bill460 said:

What "problems" can a glossy scope cause?... Other than not matching the gun it's on. Remember, before you come back with the whole glare deal. As I said, most of these scopes are either rattle canned, or wrapped in the military. So it really doesn't matter what they look like out of the box.

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Do you do any painting? Do you think paint sticks to a gloss surface or a matte surface better? Why do you think that these experienced people are painting their scopes?

Bill460 said:

And I highly doubt we ever lost a sniper in Vietnam, because he gave away his position due to his glossy scope.

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I have no idea, and neither do you. No one does, for sure, unless it's some old Viet Cong vet who we're unlikely to be able to ask.

Delete

There is always the Durablue option, Ive got a few guns i ran the "black/blue" durablue on and unless you get pretty close they DO look like gloss bluing. I should have gone with the black, cause its STILL obviously paint once you get up on it.

I like the Idea of shiny scopes on really nicely blued guns, but i dont own any that I think are worth the effort to order a modern optic with nice shiny ano on it.

Actually Ive got a VariX-IIc in gloss sitting on a rifle in my safe right now.
Anyone who wants it ill swap for a similar quality, any other color, scope.

bearcreek said:

Why do you think that these experienced people are painting their scopes?

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So they end up looking like this:

Bill460 said:

So what choice do we have?

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Just want to point out again, that if you want one Leupold will build you one, so might other companies.

This took all of 30 seconds to find two examples:

https://www.ebay.com/c/10004003685
https://www.opticsplanet.com/v/66125-leupold-vx-3-3-5-10x40-mm-rifle.html

Conelrad

the vx3 is discontinued...
varix-iic is pretty much exactly what I've got sans the bdc reticle.....it's an ok scope, but it's not nearly as nice optically the as the newer matte finished vx-f or any of my others brands of scope.

I wanted to put a straight Leupold M8 4X Gloss Compact on my Mark V Deluxe. Because I've both seen and shot a .460 with that optics setup, and it's perfect for that rifle. It looks correct, and has just enough magnification not to crowd eye relief. And not being a variable, there are fewer parts to cause issues with heavy recoil. Many of these, "sniper scopes" have gotten so damn large, they look like something you put on a tripod to view Jupiter with.

But as everyone has been saying, they are difficult, if not impossible to come by these days. Before anyone starts posting links, I've seen most all of them on E-Bay, and the like. Most used one's on the market are worn and nicked up. It's pretty hard to mount a scope and not mark it up. It's why most optics places will not allow returns on scopes, once they've been mounted. They cannot resell them. The rifle is new and perfect. And I'm not interested in putting a scratched and nicked up scope on a brand new beautiful rifle.

This is partly my fault, because I've had this rifle for a while, and should have bought the scope while I had the chance, but didn't. That was my mistake. I didn't think gloss scopes would go out of style, anymore than toothpaste would. And while I'm not a market analyst, I should have seen this coming. Especially with the boxcar loads of cheap, dull matte finished, plastic stocked rifles that have been dumped on the market in recent years.

Bill460 said:

So they end up looking like this:

View attachment 893318

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Exactly. Broken up, flat, earth tones that are harder to see (partly because they're not glossy). Part of the reason that that rifle has the paint coming off like that is because the finish was too smooth, either from the factory or because of wear or both. Obviously, only the lower on that was painted, not the upper.

bearcreek said:

Part of the reason that that rifle has the paint coming off like that is because the finish was too smooth.......

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No. The reason that rifle has paint coming off of it, is because $1.99 @ can Krylon is for lawn furniture and kids doll houses.... Not guns.

I like gloss scopes, found one Leupold offered a few years ago. A VX-2 3-9x50mm nothing fancy but been very happy with it and get a lot of "that's a good looking rife" at the range from some.

Nice combo.

Bill460 said:

No. The reason that rifle has paint coming off of it, is because $1.99 @ can Krylon is for lawn furniture and kids doll houses.... Not guns.

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Thousands of combat vets would beg to differ, but a man's entitled to his opinion.