Front up guns, or when your primary isn't.

Kleanbore said:

If I can conveniently carry a second firearm, I will do so.

It can mitigate the risk of a malfunction, and it can be helpful when driving.

I do not consider prudent risk mitigation as an "attempt to cheat death".

I consider carrying a back-up gun to be a better idea than extra magazines,

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I think you're probably right about the second gun being a better idea than reloads.

This is how it works out for me: say I'm leaving the house, a 1911 on my hip, a Detective Special in a pocket, I go to the car, get halfway there, and I turn around and go back into the house because I just remembered I forget my spare keys. While I'm at it, does it hurt to pick up a couple of spare magazines? I start back out to the car. A few steps out the door, and I remember I don't have gloves. Wouldn't it be just as easy when I pick up the gloves to drop in a speed loader in an offside pocket?

This tends to be just normal everyday stuff, dressing for comfort. I don't expect to use any of this stuff. Some men feel more comfortable with the formality of a necktie, which they'll never use for anything. Is it so much different that I take a slightly different view of what it means to be properly attired? If I had any actual idea that I might be heading toward any real danger, I'd go back in the house, draw all the blinds, and wait in the dark with my shotgun.

Dibbs said:

OK, maybe you haven't heard the expression "The coward dies a thousand deaths, the brave man dies but once."

HOW WILLING are you, in your attempt to cheat death, to carry extra guns, extra mags, wear bullet-proof vests, in 90 degree weather,
strap on extra boot knives, get more holsters, etc ? Isn't there a point, Kleanbore, where you put down the fork, push that big, steaming, piled-up, never-ending
plate away, and say, "OK, that's enough."?

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When Shakespeare used that line in Henry IV, Part II, it was satire. The character speaking those lines was hardly reputable or courageous. Hemingway had his White Hunter quote it again in its entirety in his Macomber story. I always wondered if Hemingway understood the full context of the quote. In September '36 when his story was published in Cosmopolitan Magazine there weren't many ongoing productions of this relatively obscure and unread play.

I have to be misreading your post because it seems as if you're equating lack of preparation.with courage. The two in my mind are unrelated. If I don't have a fire extinguisher when I need one, I'm simply unprepared. The presence or lack of the tool doesn't speak to a man's level of courage.

if you spend a lot of time sitting down, ankle carry is ideal for easy access.

If I find myself in a situation where I feel I might get stabbed or shot if I go for the primary and am told to retrieve my wallet and my assessment is that my life is in danger.

What comes out of the right hip pocket is an LCP.

When I'm driving I usually carry a DAO snub 357 revolver AIWB. It's quick and easy to draw from sitting position. I can carry a Shield 9 semi auto the same way in a kydex holster. I find AIWB the most comfortable, concealable and most easily accessed way for me. YMMV

Like a few others have said carry one strong side one in coat pocket when in vehicle the one in pocket j frame for me goes in between the seat along side me still in a pocket holster
Same thing in summertime just carry in front pocket

Remember, if you plan on carrying a pistol in a holster not on your body that unless it is really secured, strapped in place, it will almost certainly become a lethal missile in almost any accident. A gun in a holster between the seats will likely not stay there in any accident.

The flying coffee cup would probably do more damage

Am I the only one whose car doors lock?

Glock 23 IWB which I can't put my hand on without revealing I'm carrying.
2nd pistol in my weak hand front pocket addresses that issue, can discretely put my hand on it if approached by someone "shady" in a parking lot. (example)
Also it affords me the ability to quickly access a pistol with my weak hand should my dominant hand be unavailable.

Parking lot example is best prediction of where the 2nd gun might be utilized rather than primary, because my hand would already be on it. If its ever needed I anticipate it being very close range so 9mm minimum (Kahr PM9 / Glock 43), although majority of the time its a Shield 40 or XDs 45.
I practice with that pistol one hand weak hand like it would be used for SD.

I always carry my .22 magnum NAA in my left hand front pocket. I'm ambi for the most part, but I tend to be more righty than lefty. However, with a single action, I don't find that I shoot the little .22 any better in my right than left. So even when I don't carry my larger carry gun on me, the NAA is ALWAYS in my left pocket. I do this because my CCW will most likely be drawn by my right hand. This goes for if I wearing it IWB at 1 o'clock or 4 o'clock or if I move it over to a cross draw when I am driving. My right hand goes toward my primary weapon. That said, I would probably actually be FASTER getting the .22 into action. I have a habit of keeping my left and in my pocket when I stand. The .22 is almost literally always in my hand in I am milling about.

Kinda funny this this thread came up as I just had a bit of a dicey situation day before yesterday. My uncle and I were traveling out of state to a training. We stopped in at a McDonald's to grab a quick breakfast. I hadn't taken the time to move my holster over to cross draw my carry gun as I was going to be going straight from the truck to the training, and was wearing tucked in dress clothes where I was not willing to risk my gun being spotted by people I had never met before. Tennessee honors my permit, but I'm not trying to ruffle feathers. Instead I opted to keep my gun in my console for quick access and lock it up when I was in the training. I would transfer it to my hip after the training when we went downtown for dinner. Anyway, I all I had quickly at hand was my Black Widow.

As we walk back to the truck, I open my door and start to get in after I secure my drink. I hear a voice say, "Uh, 'cuse me, sir..." I turn around and there is a guy who immediately goes into the spiel: "old lady" threw him out, walking over to the factory to get a job, just needs a couple bucks for a cup of coffee...etc. It turns out he was just your typical panhandler. However, I was completely exposed when he showed up: Back turned to get in the truck, door open, primary gun still in the console...but I did have my hand in my left pocket. In a situation where more force was deemed necessary, the .22 in my pocket would have been the most logical and immediate weapon I had.

I've come to the realization that I prefer having a small back up weapon instead of a reload for my primary. It gives me more options at the expense of being a less than ideal caliber. Still, better to have that .22 magnum in my pocket than a speedloader of .357 where said .357 is 4' out of reach.

Kleanbore said:

Are any of your doors ever open momentarily to admit or drop off a passenger?

The first step in risk management is to identify the risks.

And the uninvited entry of a violent criminal while a car door (or house door, fro that matter) is open momentarily is one that has occurred. One does not have to "think it up".

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I do know some small amount about risk management...

I also know that most criminals like to escape after their crimes rather than hanging out at the scene waiting to get caught. If I'm boxed in, he will be too.

Maybe I don't have much of an imagination, but I just can't picture some carjacker picking the intersection of Westheimer and 610 at 5:00 PM as the time and place.

bdickens said:

Am I the only one whose car doors lock?

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My wife's car doors auto-unlock when you place the vehicle in park which I do when sitting at an open bridge or railroad crossing.
My truck is old school and doesn't have electric windows or door locks so I don't have that problem.

bdickens said:

Maybe I don't have much of an imagination, but I just can't picture some carjacker picking the intersection of Westheimer and 610 at 5:00 PM as the time and place.

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I had to go testify against someone who had pawned a set of stolen golf clubs. He dragged the owner, who was in his work clothes, out of his vehicle and beat him unconscious as the owner waited on a red light to change in the middle of the afternoon. Bad guy took the vehicle and later pawned the golf clubs he found in the car.

Oh, I mention the victim being in his work clothes because he was a priest and most likely unarmed.

bdickens said:

Maybe I don't have much of an imagination, but I just can't picture some carjacker picking the intersection of Westheimer and 610 at 5:00 PM as the time and place.

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LOL..

FlSwampRat said:

Oh, I mention the victim being in his work clothes because he was a priest and most likely unarmed.

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Best to make sure he's not an Episcopalian priest; most of the ones I've know are almost always armed and usually with more than just Holy Water.

40-82 said:

I have to be misreading your post because it seems as if you're equating lack of preparation.with courage. The two in my mind are unrelated. If I don't have a fire extinguisher when I need one, I'm simply unprepared. The presence or lack of the tool doesn't speak to a man's level of courage.

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No, I'm simply stating that obsession over preparation is tiresome, and hard to uniformly maintain. Risk mitigation, as a learned poster mentioned, is different degrees, for different people,
and some are willing to accept a very slightly higher risk, in order to go through the day, without dragging the extra baggage. I don't think it's courage, to state that with EDC, one flashlight
and Leatherman, I use everyday, and one gun, I NEVER USE , are enough for me. Maybe I'm just an old fart, who's tired, sorry.

40-82 said:

When Shakespeare used that line in Henry IV, Part II, it was satire. The character speaking those lines was hardly reputable or courageous. Hemingway had his White Hunter quote it again in its entirety in his Macomber story. I always wondered if Hemingway understood the full context of the quote. In September '36 when his story was published in Cosmopolitan Magazine there weren't many ongoing productions of this relatively obscure and unread play.

I have to be misreading your post because it seems as if you're equating lack of preparation.with courage. The two in my mind are unrelated. If I don't have a fire extinguisher when I need one, I'm simply unprepared. The presence or lack of the tool doesn't speak to a man's level of courage.

Click to expand...

I read it as someone who obsesses over preparation and a thousand different scenarios is only hurting their own mental well-being.

It was out of context, as Shakespeare mean't it to illustrate that those who are cowards and run away from danger die a little each time inside, knowing that they are cowards.

I get what he was trying to say, that obsessing over being prepared for a worst-case scenario is not always healthy or helpful. People chide me for wanting my carry gun to be accurate at 25 yards, but then carry around 5lbs of gear, extra magazines, flashlights, etc without thinking it curious.

Trey Veston said:

I read it as someone who obsesses over preparation and a thousand different scenarios is only hurting their own mental well-being.

It was out of context, as Shakespeare mean't it to illustrate that those who are cowards and run away from danger die a little each time inside, knowing that they are cowards.

I get what he was trying to say, that obsessing over being prepared for a worst-case scenario is not always healthy or helpful. People chide me for wanting my carry gun to be accurate at 25 yards, but then carry around 5lbs of gear, extra magazines, flashlights, etc without thinking it curious.

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I do understand what you’re saying, but by definition you’re always over prepared until you aren’t. If I had an NNA .22 and a one inch Swiss Army somebody would come along and say I was over prepared.

MedWheeler said:

Kleanbore writes:



As do I. My Kel-Tec P32 is barely bigger than a spare magazine for my PF9, and is probably lighter than a fully-loaded 1911 magazine.

That being said, I have taken to carrying the PF9, the P32, and a spare magazine for the P32 (because the ten-round spare fits nicely in a jeans "watch pocket", and it also allows me to ditch the PF9 belt gun should I need to become more "covert" for any reason.)

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You made me look. My postal scale says that a loaded 8-round Wilson .45ACP, with 230 grain bullets, is 9 ounces. A loaded P32 is 10.5 ounces. So you're right, that's close enough as to not make no never-mind.

And to extrapolate a bit, since a life without extrapolation is not worth living, a loaded Ruger SR 1911 (44.5 oz) and two spare magazines (18 oz) is the equivalent of 5.435 loaded P32's. If a person were willing to carry another pound, that person could carry five spare P32 magazines. Since it's hard to find 0.435 of a P32, you could have five P32's, a spare magazine for each of them, and it would be less than a pound heavier than one SR1911 and two spare magazines. Plus, that'd be 80 rounds total of .32ACP instead of 24 rounds of .45ACP.

That's it, I'm buying more Kel-Tecs!