Is this light recoil, plinking ammo?

Aim1 said:

So how do you use that ballistics chart to tell what is a nice, low recoil load?

Is it FPS, like 700 FPS means it's a low recoil load?

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I'm not exactly sure what you are asking here, so I will start from the beginning and hope you will forgive me if I seem patronizing.

FPS=feet per second=velocity of the bullet. The faster the bullet, the more the recoil.

The same is true for bullet weight. The heavier the bullet, the more the recoil, assuming the velocity is the same.

The "standard" bullet weight for the .38 Special is 158 grains. Historically, the factories loaded these at about 850 feet per second, give or take.

The traditional "light" load is a 148 grain bullet loaded to about 650 FPS. This load has a reputation for excellent accuracy and very light recoil, and I use it and recomend it.

More recently - like the last few decades - it has often been suggested that lighter bullets loaded to higher velocity are more effective for defense. So we have seen lighter bullets - most commonly 125 and 110 grain hollow points - loaded to maximum velocity in the .38. Those kick, despite the lighter bullets.

So, short version: there is no official line between "standard recoil" and "low recoil". If the box says "low recoil" then it probably is. Otherwise, you will have to look at the bullet weight and velocity. Choose the lightest bullet at the lowest velocity - bearing in mind that 158/850 is roughly average - and that will allow you to make good decisions.

Or you could just buy anything loaded with 148 grain wadcutters and be assured that you are nearly guaranteed to have an accurate, low-recoil load.

Aim1 said:

Not patronizing at all. This stuff confuses me and my small brain, lol, but you did a great job of explaining it.

I have a low level of education so thanks for breaking it down.


It seems to be that any wadcutters or other low recoil rounds have to be bought online not at stores and thus you have to pay shipping which can negate a lower price for the ammo.

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I am happy to help. My formal education ended when I was fifteen, so "I feel your pain."

I think you are right about the availability of truly low-recoil loads. I rarely see them on the shelves. You may consider handloading. It seems complex from the outside, but if you have a narrow interest, like just loading 148 wadcutters in .38 Special, it can be simple enough.

Regardless, I hope you have your answers. Essentially, the 130/800 load you originally asked about is a lighter-than-standard load but not as light as can be had in this cartridge. As for accuracy I do not know as I have not tried it. If you do I hope you will report back.

.38 special - Nice job of presenting that breakdown in it's essence.

OP Aim1 - Getting back to your opening post , that WWB isn't bad as recoil goes. Hopefully you can find a better price.
Some LRN loads are pretty mild , but they will dirty up your revolver in a hurry. LRN tends to be lower in price and is pretty common.
Just take a close look at the combination of pressure and muzzle velocity. Good luck.

Regarding cleanliness, my personal experience has been that lead bullets are "dirtier" but also easier to clean. Lead bullets tend to leave traces of lead in the bore. Lead bullets also have grooves in them, filled with waxy lubricant. The lube is intended to reduce the amount of lead left in the bore, but also tends to leave a greasy film on the gun.

That's the bad news. The good news is that it's all relatively easy to clean. The powder and lube fouling wipes right off with pretty much any solvent, including the dreaded WD-40. Lead in the bore can be scraped out with a brush or (my favorite) a bit of copper wool, like the "Chore Boy" brand. It takes me just a few minutes to clean even a badly fouled revolver.

Jacketed bullets, on the other hand, appear to be much cleaner, and sometimes are. The trouble is that if the bullets leave streaks of copper behind in the bore, it takes chemicals and elbow grease to remove them. At worst, I have spent hours applying copper solvent, letting it sit, patching it out, and reapplying it before the gun was completely clean.

So, pick your poison. There is no "wrong" way, and the individual gun will often tell you what it prefers.

Lead Round Nose. The standard bullet shape for the .38 Special and many other cartridges. Perfectly adequate for targets and tin cans, and often very accurate, but shockingly ineffective for hunting and defense.

Good presentation, 38 Special. LIked, but one minor comment:

"The same is true for bullet weight. The heavier the bullet, the more the recoil, assuming the velocity is the same."

That latter part, "assuming the velocity is the same" is not necessary.

In other words,
recoil is directly related to velocity
recoil is directly related to bullet weight

Note you don't have to specify "for the same bullet weight" in the first statement. Neither do you have to specify "for the same velocity" in the second one. Both statements are true without qualification.

Otherwise, excellent, and thanks.

Terry, 230RN

230RN said:

Good presentation, 38 Special. LIked, but one minor comment:

"The same is true for bullet weight. The heavier the bullet, the more the recoil, assuming the velocity is the same."

That latter part, "assuming the velocity is the same" is not necessary.

In other words,
recoil is directly related to velocity
recoil is directly related to bullet weight

Note you don't have to specify "for the same bullet weight" in the first statement. Neither do you have to specify "for the same velocity" in the second one. Both statements are true without qualification.

Otherwise, excellent, and thanks.

Terry, 230RN

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I was trying to convey the idea that a heavier bullet would recoil more, unless the velocity was greatly reduced. And conversely that a lighter bullet would recoil less, unless the velocity was greaty increased.

Of course, I may simply be misunderstanding you, as I am more-or-less waist deep in martinis at the moment.

Very helpful information posted here. What makes 38 spl 130 grain fmj "horrible" for target practice at distances of 21-35ft? Is it an accuracy issue? I ask because I loaded up on UMC 250 packs for $35 when Wal-Mart was selling off it's stock. The brass will be used again once I begin reloading.

130 grain target ammo tends to be mild. Wad cutters tend to be milder yet. 158 grain anything recoils more, at least that’s how my hand perceives it.

What revolver are you intending to shoot these? Some of the pocket and snubs they may not feel so low recoil. In a GP100, S&W 19, 686, etc these heavier framed revolvers will feel better.

stonebuster said:

Very helpful information posted here. What makes 38 spl 130 grain fmj "horrible" for target practice at distances of 21-35ft? Is it an accuracy issue? I ask because I loaded up on UMC 250 packs for $35 when Wal-Mart was selling off it's stock. The brass will be used again once I begin reloading.

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I think by horrible the poster meant that the 130gr fmj are useless for anything but practice or plinking

They also don't match up at all to any SD loads so you can't use them as a cheap stand in for pricey HPs

BlueHeelerFl said:

I think by horrible the poster meant that the 130gr fmj are useless for anything but practice or plinking

They also don't match up at all to any SD loads so you can't use them as a cheap stand in for pricey HPs

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Thanks. I use them strictly for the range to practice trigger control and the fundamentals. I try to master the fundamentals with the cheap ammo before I break out the expensive SD ammo. Lately I've been working on better groups with my 2.25" and 3" and I'm ready to move up to stouter SD loads. I do practice with 38+P 130 grain HST micros occasionally with my 2.25" and 3" snubs. My 4" defensive ammo practice is with 38+P 125 grain SJHP. Most of my practice with the short barreled revolvers is done from 18-30 ft so I'm guessing the variation with POI would be minimal between the SD ammo and the cheap stuff. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that.

Aim1 said:

SW 686 with 6" power port barrel.

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ANY standard .38 special load will seem mild when launched from that cannon.

stonebuster said:

Thanks. I use them strictly for the range to practice trigger control and the fundamentals. I try to master the fundamentals with the cheap ammo before I break out the expensive SD ammo. Lately I've been working on better groups with my 2.25" and 3" and I'm ready to move up to stouter SD loads. I do practice with 38+P 130 grain HST micros occasionally with my 2.25" and 3" snubs. My 4" defensive ammo practice is with 38+P 125 grain SJHP. Most of my practice with the short barreled revolvers is done from 18-30 ft so I'm guessing the variation with POI would be minimal between the SD ammo and the cheap stuff. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that.

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I used them for the same reason. I actually still have a few boxes. However, my only 38/357 is a Marlin 1894 and I probably should use them in the mag tube

Used those exact loads for my CCW class, because they were cheap, and I needed to shoot several hundred rounds. Recoil wasn't bad, accuracy was. Target ammo it most definitely is not. I got about a 10-12 inch group at 5 yards. The same gun will ring a 8 inch gong @ 50yds with 158 gr LHPs ("FBI" load) consistently.

Anecdote Alert:

I saw a Lady shooter show up at an IDPA state championship with a supply of this stuff. In the days of 125 power floor for SSR, it didn't come close to qualifying. She batted her eyelashes - or something - at the chronograph operator and he passed her through. She was not competitive anyhow, her husband probably bought her a revolver because he did not think she was smart enough to operate an automatic.

Aim1 said:

How are they horrible?

I'm only looking for super, low recoil loads to shoot paper.

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They'll punch holes in paper for sure, not as well defines holes as SWC or WC though.
At greater distances they aren't regulated for revolvers with fixed sights.
Instead of lead deposits in your barrel, there is copper, which is more difficult to remove.

If you want new factory ammo that is cheap and low recoil, target wad cutters would be my preference.
S&B seem to be the lowest priced. Buy a case from some place like Target Sports and price per round is even less.
At the very least you'll get well defined bullet holes.

If you want super low recoil at close range, try the plastic reloadable ammo from Speer(?)that's powered by a primer.

Aim1 said:

SW 686 with 6" power port barrel.

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A 6" 686 will tame a 38 sp pretty darn well. Inaccurate in one gun doesn't mean inaccurate in all guns. But as others have said, it's not inexpensive. You can find much better prices on much better ammunition, winchester white box (aka WW) is bottom level plinking loads on the power scale in every chambering I've tried it in and generally don't buy it. But I do prefer the white box to Remington UMC for cheap blinkers in rounds I don't load. 38 sp can be handloaded with minimal investment, you'll have better savings if you do load your own 357s and better ammo too.

vincyr said:

I got about a 10-12 inch group at 5 yards.

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That's a head scratcher. I could do better with a BSR reamed for and loaded with loose rattling .38 special. What else might be going on?

Waveski said:

That's a head scratcher. I could do better with a BSR reamed for and loaded with loose rattling .38 special. What else might be going on?

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That ammo is junk in my gun. Just about everything else shoots better.

Hard to figure. So it goes.

Jim Watson said:

Anecdote Alert:

I saw a Lady shooter show up at an IDPA state championship with a supply of this stuff. In the days of 125 power floor for SSR, it didn't come close to qualifying. She batted her eyelashes - or something - at the chronograph operator and he passed her through. She was not competitive anyhow, her husband probably bought her a revolver because he did not think she was smart enough to operate an automatic.

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All of the cheaper 38 Special from the big three (Win, Rem, Fed) would not make the 125 PF from a 4-inch revolver. That was a large reason why IDPA eventually lowered it to 105, bunny fart PF.

RN in a revolver has never been know as an accurate round. It can be decent but never what WC or SWC seem to achieve in most cases. But it does reload faster and smoother. Go shoot an IDPA or USPSA match with semi-wad cutters in your speedloaders or moonclips and its a nightmare compared to round nose bullets.