M1 Garand's Younger Brother

the polymer stock was because M14 wood stocks were breaking. One would occasionally see a wood stock repaired with fiberglass and bondo.

The Polymer stocks just flat would not break.

The M16 series rifles sort of benifited from those stock breakages in that when the M14 breakage became an issue training was changed.

When running from one firing position to the next one ran at high port and would...

Stop ( yeah right)
drop to the knees
extend the body
drive the toe of the rifle but into the ground
fall on the non firing side
roll into a good firing position

The hand thus never left the grip in the whole operation

To reduce the force placed on the stock by having the hand at the grip the training was changed to include sliding the hand to the heel off the butt when coming to a stop so that the force was mostly concentrated to the area of the butt plate

this moving the hand to the heel of the butt was continued with the M16 series.

Before the Modern Volunteer Army was fully teethed dropping to the prone from a rush with one's firing hand on the pistol grip or front of the stock just behind the charging handle with an M16 A1 was immediately followed by the pain of a Drill Baby's boot in one's fundament.

On occasion it was followed by a "willful destruction of Government property" charge under Article 15 of the UCMJ when the recoil spring tube cracked and the butt stock, recoil spring and buffer all abandoned the rest of the rifle,

During the whole 1967 to 1973 period when the Infantry School and some others fought to keep the M14, a number of interesting stocks came out. One was a big clunky side folder that reminded one of a early Japanese Paratroop rifle and then a cleaned up nicer version more like an AR-180, and a "Schmisser" underfolder like an MP-40 or AK 47 folder of the 1960's, and finally by an odd tubular folder that when folded provided a carrying handle. This last was somehow lighter than a standard stock. All these versions had a separate pistol grip and could be fired folded. There was also a project to develop an aluminium magazine and a new loading was developed using the 90 grain bullet from the "Salvo project" driven to 3200 fps and it was claimed that the new round and regular ball shot to the same POA out to 300 meters

I last fired M14s in service in the summer of 1973 at Ft. Polk LA . I used a semi in a night firing class equipped with an AN/PVS 2 NVS then later visited a National Guard unit and an Army Reserve unit and fired both the M14 with M2a1 Bipod and the M14 E2 both in semi and full auto. Visiting such units that summer while at Ft Polk LA for regular army training I also fired the BAR, M79 Grenade Launcher, and the M1919 BMG. Earlier that year I talked my way into an M3a1 Grease gun class at Ft. Knox as I knew I would otherwise never get the chance to shoot one and my success at that gave me the confidence to ask at Ft. Polk

When I arrived in Neu Ulm FRG in the fall of 1973 there were M16A1 rifles in the racks and about two dozen M14e2 as well. I immediately volunteered to be an Automatic Rifleman...but the guns were gone in two weeks and instead of a 7.62 NATO rifle that made sense in Europe I got an H&R M16A1 and a useless clothes pin bipod. Actually the rifle was the best of the M16A1 I was ever issued....but it was not an M14

-kBob

22250Rem said:

Interesting thread here....... Got my first "Garands younger brother", AKA an M-14, from my Uncle Sam in Sept. 1969 along with the basic marksmanship training that has served me well over the years. It was the first .308 I'd ever fired. Fast forward to 1989 when I picked up a civilian version built on a Smith Enterprises receiver that actually says "M-14" on it even though it has no provision for a selector switch. Rest of it is built with GI parts. Shot NRA High Power with it for most of the 1990's. Then it went into "semi-retirement" until I fully retired in the spring of 2016. Still gets out once or twice a year, for perhaps 20 rounds or so. Still using up handloads from the latter 1990's. Also have a lot of brass, bullets, powder, & CCI #34 primers, (mil-spec) so ammo's no problem. Always enjoyed shooting the M-14 and its older brother the M-1, ( got one of those from CMP in 1996). Thinning out the gun collection in retirement but those two aren't going away for some time yet. Or else my son may inherit them. View attachment 893878

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Looks like a McMillian stock. Those were expensive (now $550!) and they were stout! I preferred the look of wood and used the heavy wood stock. The pictured M1a was one of the first "Super Match" M1a's that Springfield Armory made. Prior to that you could buy a National Match, which had all the match modifications, which included a heavy Douglas barrel, unitized gas system, half MOA rear, beefy stock and glass bedding. Then the Super Match came in and it had all of that but the receiver was rear lugged. Out of the box, it would shoot with the best. It is my recollection that in that time period Glenn Nelson was doing the custom work for Springfield Armory. In fact, he told me so, I purchased a couple of Glenn's M1a stocks and they were slightly different from the stock on my Super Match. They were just a little different in the pistol grip.

I had always heard that those polymer M-14 stocks were developed after moisture problems with the wood stocks in the monsoon season in Vietnam during the early days of U.S. involvement there. Although I've never seen anything to confirm that. That's a USGI synthetic stock on the "M-14" in my previous post, ( No. 22) and I recently found another that had been in a box in the man cave. I thought they were some type of plastic but recently heard they are fiberglass. I'm still not sure but I got a great deal on it 30 years ago at a gun show; couldn't say "no" and yet never used it. Mine already has one. Also discovered a pic of it here on the computer.
Thought I had sold this about 10 years ago but was thinking of something else.

For some reason I would consider the M-1 Carbine the younger brother, the M-14 the son, and the Mini 14 the grandson.

And the BM-59 the weird cousin.

Enjoyed the stories and the pics... Basic for me was the winter of 1968 at Sand Hill, Ft. Benning... and yes, we had the M-14... Can't say I was very fond of it since I struggled to shoot well with it... and I definitely remember training runs with it in hand (at barely 5'9" and maybe 135lbs I wasn't exactly a great physical specimen -until I completed basic and added a few pounds during the process...).

I don't have a single photo from back then - but doubt I'll ever forget one bit of those 8 weeks... A year or two later, while still stationed in the US, we had to qualify with those new M-16's and boy were they a snap to qualify with after that M-14...

I remember the summer of '69. It was hot and humid. The M14/M16 argument didn't apply.... I was in the sixth grade

More -kBob Babbling.....

While attending The Citadel each non officer Cadet was issued an M-14 during fill week and kept it in his room until Winter break in an unsecured wooden rack next to the sink in the shared room. The rifles of freshmen got plenty of exercise in that they went on on-campus runs, did excercises and performed drill and cerimonies training and Saturday Morning Parades and Friday Retreats and various forms of Hazing.

These rifles were only nuetered in the same way my highschool JROTC M14 and M1 had been, having the bolt stripped of firing pin, ejector and spring and extractor and spring and were otherwise just fine. When a Senior Cadet found out I could reassemble a bolt and that the parts were all available mail order I put his bolt back together and he took it out and shot it a number of times. He would fetch his Privately owned M1 from his car and leave that in his rifle slot and no one was the wiser as they looked in that dark corner and saw "a" rifle and saw what they expected.

Occassionally as one sat in the barracks one could hear the clack of an M14 hammer on the back of a bolt...this was the sound of a freshman dry firing....while aiming at some Cadet Cadre member walking towards the barracks from class or activities.

Oh yes there was one other group that did not have M-14s The Bond Volunteers, the Junior drill team/ candidates for the Summeral Guard had M1903A3 Springfield for some reason and they appeared fully functional when I examined two of them.

After I was home from the service my old High School program got their M-14s taken away and replaced by M1903A3 rifles....with the selector welded on single shot(making it impossible to remove the bolt), the firing pin hole welded shut, a rod welded in the bore of the rifle to block it and a pat on the behind. Later some rifles had the front sight blade removed and rear sights removed to make them "safer" for the drill teams. They also took away the Remington 513T and Winchester 52 D .22 rifles and replaced them with air rifles and the M1911A1s, M-60s, and M79s all went away as well.

-kBob

Interesting that your JROTC rifles were neutered. I had access to a fully functional M14, with an operational "da switch", all throughout High School from 1970-1974. Maybe someone didn't get the memo, or possibly it was a regional thing. Living in an Army town like El Paso may have also accounted for this. Strangely enough, in 3 semesters at UTEP as an ROTC cadet, I never laid hands on a rifle.

During High School, we actually drew our rifles and got bused over to Ft. Bliss once or twice a year in order to run a few rounds through our rifles.

Speedo66 said:

As I mentioned, our ranges were on the beach, the ocean was the backdrop. It seemed a little strange to me at the time that a passing boat could theoretically be hit, perhaps it was restricted area on charts, but that's how I remember it.

The base beer hall was on a cliff over the ocean, somehow I remember that also.

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Sorry got ya...sometimes Reedin iz hard.

lemaymiami said:

I definitely remember training runs with it in hand (at barely 5'9" and maybe 135lbs I wasn't exactly a great physical specimen -until I completed basic and added a few pounds during the process...).

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I had a similar experience. String bean entering basic at 6' 154lbs., left AIT 4 months later at 168. Probably 1/4" shorter from that steel pot banging on my head while we ran with the M-14 at high port. lol

Speedo66 said:

I had a similar experience. String bean entering basic at 6' 154lbs., left AIT 4 months later at 168. Probably 1/4" shorter from that steel pot banging on my head while we ran with the M-14 at high port. lol

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Try 5'8" on a good day and 120 with rocks in your pockets.