I seem to be a better shot from prone

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ANATION

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Finding out that my groups tighten up when shooting from prone compared to the bench. The only exception is the .22 centerfires. Groups for those are tight from both positions. I’m assuming it’s recoil related but I don’t know. The only reason I say that is that it appears that my whole frame absorbs recoil compared to my shoulders. The gun seems to bounce less on the ground as well but that might be in my head. I’ve shot prone varmint hunting for years but never at the range until a guy I was shooting with recommended it. It seems to work for me. Just an observation. Don’t know if anyone else has had that same issue.
 
Prone is my favorite, I use a sling.
Are you using a sling?
It really holds it into your shoulder and I feel keeps me on target so I can see the steel move through the aperture.

https://artoftherifle.com/the-loop-sling
https://looserounds.com/2015/03/27/...sing-the-usgi-web-sling-to-its-max-potential/

All Positions,
https://artoftherifle.com/reference-section

I've used a sling in the field but for load development and plinking at the range I just use a bipod with sandbag under the butt. I'll check out those links.
 
I've shot both ways, but prefer from the bench. I have a heavy rest and a Hoppe's aluminum one, but can shoot great groups from either.
When shooting off the Hoppe's I normally hold the forend down on the bags from just behind the rest, taking almost a held-down position, pulling the stock back firmly to the shoulder.

For hunting rifles that have moderate to '06 recoil, I use a PAST recoil pad on my shoulder. I don't have any magnums or super-light deer rifles that recoil more than a 30-06, but used to sight-in such rifles as some of the part-time business I conducted.

Before going to the range, I assured that all screws on the rifle and scope were tight. It didn't pay to shoot rifles/sights that were not in good shooting condition.
 
Bench is a somewhat unnatural shooting position, in the wider scheme of things. We are usign the bench for support, and thne bending out bodies around to fit up behind the benched gun.
Prone supports the body, so other than the getting up (or down) part, it's an easy position to shoot from. Other than the sorting out elbows and the like. Gettign a bone-supported poistion from prone is why most want a jacket and sling support for best results.
 
Finding out that my groups tighten up when shooting from prone compared to the bench. The only exception is the .22 centerfires. Groups for those are tight from both positions. I’m assuming it’s recoil related but I don’t know. The only reason I say that is that it appears that my whole frame absorbs recoil compared to my shoulders. The gun seems to bounce less on the ground as well but that might be in my head. I’ve shot prone varmint hunting for years but never at the range until a guy I was shooting with recommended it. It seems to work for me. Just an observation. Don’t know if anyone else has had that same issue.
We all do. Most stable shooting position.
 
Prone, sitting, kneeling, standing The most stable to the least stable positions of shooting a long gun.
I would think shooting from a bench would fall between prone and sitting.
Just my opinion. YMMV.
 
Probe is the best assuming you’re doing it right.

prone off of a bipod is my preferred shooting position for a rifle.
 
Bench shooting with a machine rest and rear bag should be the most accurate position - least opportunity for shooter error. Prone with a rest and rear bag is very close, and for most folks, it’s simply easier to get comfortable, because not all benches are perfect height for seat and bench to fit an appropriate position. If you’d be comfortable eating at a bench, it’s probably not appropriate height for shooting (else your rest and rear bag need to be really tall, which is less stable).

Either are groovy for me, but structurally and in terms of shooter influence on the shot, bench SHOULD shoot smaller.
 
Prone has always been my most accurate shooting position. I was training in the NRA Youth program in the mid-1970's. One progressed from prone, to sitting, to kneeling, to standing after sufficient scores in each position at least at the Sharpshooter level that I obtained. There were various bars to achieve in each position once Sharpshooter was reached.

We were taught with use of a sling, in all four positions, which was pretty handy. I found that technique especially handy with cartridges that provide significant recoil. It's not something I 've figured out how to employ from a bench while using a rest, and so frankly, I don't think it can be applied in that situation although I'm willing to admit maybe it's just because no one ever taught me how to do so.

I see so much stuff today about shooting using "sticks" today, especially for hunting in Africa that I have some interest in doing before I croak. It's also not something I can envision using a sling in combination with, and I know from personal experience not using a sling from a bench with a rest is less comfortable for me. Using a sling helps keep the rifle well tucked in using my off hand and arm,allowing my trigger hand to focus solely on it's job with the trigger. I don't know when use of a sling disappeared from at least civilian rifle marksmanship training, but I'm glad it was part of my training.

The one outfitter in Africa I've had a lot of discussion with has agreed that if I demonstrate acceptable marksmanship on their range without sticks afte arrival, I'll be exempt from the general requirement to shoot using sticks, which is fine with me. Standing (or crouching), and maybe kneeling, are the only shooting positions I see sticks being able to be used from to begin with. That outfitter's point of contact informed me he's hunted in Texas and that hunting in the bush of South Africa is very similar to hunting in the Texas scrub, so the same techniques that have served me for decades here should work just fine in South Africa.

Why doesn't the NRA Basic Rifle training program today include shooting from all 4 the basic positions on the range as well as being in the book now, and nothing about using a sling in the range exercises?
 
I prefer prone to any other shooting position. I generally shoot off a bipod with bags under the butt, but I think I’m most accurate when shooting off front and rear bags, honestly.
 
Your comments here are prompting me to try prone again. Last time I tried it, I kept getting a kink in my neck...very uncomfortable. I shoot from a bench often, but am always tweaking the equipment for the best outcome with any given rifle. Guess I need to give prone another 'shot'. (pun intended)
 
Prone has always been my most accurate shooting position. I was training in the NRA Youth program in the mid-1970's. One progressed from prone, to sitting, to kneeling, to standing after sufficient scores in each position at least at the Sharpshooter level that I obtained. There were various bars to achieve in each position once Sharpshooter was reached.

Ditto, early seventies for me. Good fun and competition meets. Use of a sling was very important!

upload_2020-3-8_9-38-26.png

Nearly fifty years later, still have the patches on the inside of the door to the powder storage, out grew the shooting vest.:)
 
I think it’s going to come down to how you hold the gun. The undeniable fact is your body is fully supported prone while best case your chest is leaning on the bench and your butt and feet are supported from a benchrest position. So it’s going to be more difficult to keep your body still from a bench.

if the way you’re holding the gun is more of a traditional firm “driving the rifle” style attempting to manage recoil with your shoulder and body weight then the gun is also going to sway with your unsupported body movements.

otoh if you are “free recoiling” and barely holding on to it maybe even without your head touching the stock at all, then your body doesn’t have the opportunity to mess up your groups and that position is more difficult prone so bench may be a lot easier
 
Why doesn't the NRA Basic Rifle training program today include shooting from all 4 the basic positions on the range as well as being in the book now, and nothing about using a sling in the range exercises?


With all due respect, there’s an awful lot wrong with what you’ve stated above, simply because you don’t understand what program you were in, nor do you understand the current programs which you’ve chosen to slight.

What you went through as a youth was not the NRA Basics of Rifle Shooting Program, it would have been one of the handful of “youth marksmanship coaching programs,” often offered through partnerships between the NRA and 4H or BSA. The NRA Basics of Rifle Shooting (BoRS) course is a 1 day class, which ends with a certificate and occasionally a patch (instructor discretion). The youth programs typically follow (and have followed) the NRA/Winchester Marksmanship Qualification Program (aka “the Patch Program,” a fantastic self-paced, self-assessment standards program). Your description, including 4 positions, continued coaching program design, and bars for qualification achievements confirms you were shooting in the NRA/Win MQP 4 Position Rifle Qualification standards in a Youth Program, not the BoRS course.

The NRA/Win 4 Position Marksmanship Qualification program used as the “yardstick” and incentivization for these youth programs remains to include, as to be expected, 4 position shooting requirements. The marksmanship standards aren’t an instruction guide, but the coaching programs and instructor qualification courses to be able to offer the joint youth programs under an NRA banner DO require 5 position training (not just 4 - Bench, prone, sitting, kneeling, and standing), and the Qualification standards, patches and bars, still require courses of fire from 4 positions.

You’re also mistaken (or unfortunately misguided) that the current BoRS course, the 1 day class and it’s corresponding Guide book indeed include instruction for 5 shooting positions - not just 4 - and do include shooting with a sling support. Pages 79-102, with extensive photos - including demonstrations of sling use. The current Guidebook even includes an 3 page appendix for “Using the sling,” - fully illustrated with narrative and photographic guides for the use of both the loop sling and hasty sling. If you’ve taken a BoPS course which did not include instruction in at least 4 positions; benchrest, prone, sitting OR kneeling, and Standing, then your instructor didn’t follow the lesson plan as required by NRA Training HQ.

Unfortunately, participation in the NRA BoRS classes, and these loosely associated youth programs has shrunk considerably. Many 4H and BSA clubs which used to host continued youth coaching programs and even small bore postal matches and have reduced their marksmanship training down to singular “workshops” or “classes,” usually only gun safety focused, or eliminated firearms marksmanship entirely. BoRS is exceptionally unpopular, as it’s incredibly difficult for instructors to commit enough students to fill a class under the NRA’s minimum standards - and enough filled classes to warrant the expense and hassle of sustaining the certification (which unlike the basics of Pistol Shooting, the BoRS class doesn’t serve as a standard for any concealed carry or similar licensure). The Shotgun and Metallic Reloading classes are admittedly more difficult, but a guy can usually fill a basics of Pistol Shooting class, while getting 5 students in a rifle shooting class is a high challenge. The BoRS class is - as described in the title - quite basic, and naturally, it lacks the flash and fanfare of some of the other tactical or defensive shooting classes available (which typically do not have any national standard for instruction quality or content). So it’s waning.

But the content you’ve claimed is no longer included... well, frankly, IS.
 
Well, FYI I took a NRA Basic Rifle course for brush-up just last year here in San Antonio, Texas, and I know exactly what was covered, and I was not the only student in that class, and I discussed these points with the NRA instructor.

Now, why didn't your psychic powers of omniscience reveal all that to you @Varminterror? I'd really like to know, since you purport to know so much more than I do about my very own firsthand personal experiences. Do tell.

I think you'd do everyone including yourselfa favor if you can find your way to honestly objectively readwhat I posted.

I said nothing about these positions not being covered in the book, because I read that book and still haveit ready to handon my nightstand. I did very honestly post those positions were not part of the field/ range exercises in my class. That's why "as well as in the book" which you quoted in your own post, is exactly what I wrote.

See if you can drag yourself to read what I posted objectively, I encourage you to make notes for assistance, because the post with a whole lot of wrong in it is your own.

Let us know if you're able to get yourself to honestly do so, and if so, your findings within your own post. We'll all still be here.
 
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