Reliability of a mil-spec 1911 Gov't

My bet is tony is shooting some sort of 1911 with a external extractor. Kimber, S&W or Sig Sauer possibly .

Spring loaded extractors are what most modern firearms are equipped with now. It’s what the slides are cut for. I’m not aware of whether a conversion can be done. I’m not even sure that all milspec 1911s have the old style extractors.

Really, if you have one, great. If you don’t and aren’t having any problems, don’t worry about it.

Well, it looks like I put my foot in my mouth. The 1911 I’m shooting now has the old style extractor. The last one I had with a spring loaded extractor was in fact a Sig. I guess STI did a good job of tuning mine, since I’ve never had a single problem with it.

And for those wondering about import 1911s, mine is an STI Spartan. Manufactured by Armscor in the Philippines for STI. Runs like a champ. Quality control was apparently very good.

Milspec 1911s will have internal extractors. I have seen a number of arguments about the fact that only true 1911s have internal extractors. External extractor Guns not being true productions of a 1911. Some of the arguments have been quite heated.

TonyAngel said:

Really, if you have one, great. If you don’t and aren’t having any problems, don’t worry about it.

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I have two or three M1911's with external extractors. They work fine but they do not set my life on fire.

One of them is an M1911 that I assembled with a Caspian slide. I'm not sure how successful I'd be removing the extractor if I ever needed to replace it. I had some trouble installing the pin that holds the extractor in place. The external extractor was a novelty at the time I built the gun and I wanted to try it out.

I don't have any issue with the internal extractor but I know how to tune them to work. Easy to swap out if necessary.

Use what ever floats your boat.

With 230 RN 45 ACP ammunition, I've never had an M1911 that I could not get to operate reliably. I've built two from the frame up and have several others.

I have an Auto Ordinance 1911 that needed a little TLC to fix some glitches but it now has the reliability of a light switch with 230 grain ball ammunition.

Hollow point or wadcutter ammunition is another matter. It can be hit or miss if it functions reliably or not. It may take alot more TLC to get them to work.

A spring loaded extractor means it's not a 1911.

Whatever it is may be good, but it's not a 1911.

The RIA mil spec comes pretty close to issue, tiny little sights and all. The SA is fine, I just don't like the angled cocking serrations.

There will now be a small wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Geez. Tuning an extractor is easy. Figuring out how to get any 1911 to run should be easy, but apparently a lot of males these days have no mechanical inclination whatsoever. Even with YouTube ...

Jammersix said:

The SA is fine, I just don't like the angled cocking serrations.

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The SA "G.I." Model, parkerized, has the vertical serrations, a more faithful replica of the original gov't model. I stupidly sold a fine specimen a few years back.
But speaking of no frills, no lowered or flared ejection port, teeny sights:

Loosy-goosey, but still a tack-driver after more'n 40 years.

Honestly, I'm getting tired of people who impugn the perceived reliability of 1911s (but then, I've never bought a 1911 because of its low price tag). It's just not rocket science to get one to run right if it doesn't out of the box.

Old Dog said:

The SA "G.I." Model, parkerized, has the vertical serrations, a more faithful replica of the original gov't model.

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It was, yes. It's not produced anymore.

BSA1 said:

I wish someone made a true WWII 1911A1 clone. No lowered and beveled ejection port, correct hammer, thumb safety and grips, parked finish and itty bitty sights. Most importantly sold as a shooter piece and price.

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https://www.classicfirearms.com/sds-imports-1911-a1-government/

Close enough for government work.

Of course, you can get a spring-loaded internal extractor: https://dawsonprecision.com/extractors-1911-by-aftec/

12Bravo20 said:

That being said, as long as the pistol actually meets military specifications, then it should be good to go.

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^^^^^this^^^^
The problem is some people think they're smarter than JMB.
Search this site for 1911 posts by 1911tuner there's a wealth of knowledge in his writings.

JTQ said:

I'm OK with everything except the "itty bitty sights".

No reason to use them when you have other options that will fit in the GI dovetail, look good, and actually be usable, like 10-8 Performance NM ( https://www.10-8performance.com/1911-nm-rear-sight/ ), Harrison Retro ( https://shop.harrisoncustom.com/usgi-style-rear-sight-cut ), and others like them.

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My 1911’s have been moded better sights, triggers, etc.

Mn Fats said:

I think Auto Ordnance is about as close as you can get.

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Unfortunately their quality is a issue.

Texas10mm said:

https://www.classicfirearms.com/sds-imports-1911-a1-government/

Close enough for government work.

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I have read about them but have yet to see and handled one. Have you?

I fear that import of them may fall victim to the political disagreements between Turkey and United States.

Out of the few 1911's I have owned, I could attribute one failure (FTRTB) to aluminum-cased ammo (all I could find at the time). EVERY other failure was due to crap magazines. Switched brands (can't remember which way, I DO remember the brands were Mec-Gar and MetalForm), and all problems went away.

My SA Mil-spec ran like a watch, never had one failure of any kind.

JTQ said:

I'm OK with everything except the "itty bitty sights".

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I actually like the "itty bitty sights" since my Colt tier III is basically my GI wanna be of my collection and will likely never see a combat drill and my eyesight is excellent for 54 years. I find the tiny sights pretty good for target shooting.
IMHO my late production Colt Combat Elite is pretty close to the perfect modern adaptation of the 100+ year old design. It stays close enough to JMB spec for mechanical fit to be claw hammer reliable and adds good sights and a beaver tail.
Both will feed anything FMJ, JHP or even empty cases.

I've owned... I dunno, around six 1911 copies or near copies.

One of them was a NiB lemon and had to go back to the factory for repair.

The rest are/were as reliable as any of my other semiautomatic service pistols.

I don't know if my good fortune is because of the fact, or in spite of the fact, that none of mine have been expensive makes/models.

Here is a typical example. It's an RIA that I bought NiB because I'd traded away my Turkish GI Model towards something else. After learning my lesson with the tiny GI sights, I made sure this one had larger sights. I paid maybe $340-something for it off of Gunbroker, plus shipping and FFL (if I recall, shipping was cheap and my friend doesn't always charge me an FFL fee).

I've put at least a few hundred rounds through with with zero malfunctions. It will doubtless outlast me.

To start learning about 1911s, this article is helpful:

https://www.militarytimes.com/off-d.../08/read-this-before-you-buy-your-first-1911/

Many will tell you that getting a 1911 for less than $1000 is a wast of time. Some set the bar at $2000 min. There ARE reasons for that.

"Milspec" is a misunderstood term, and the "SA Milspec" isn't.

I have a Milspec and its a good gun. I also have an RIA, that AFTER some polishing runs well. These are not necessarily serious 1911s. If I wanted ONE, it would be likely a Dan Wesson, which may be a good entry level of 'good' 1911. Can you spend less and get a reliable gun? Yes. So, I would read, research, then decide.

One thing to consider is that there are quite a few "mil. spec." 1911s out there that are actual military surplus pistols, with tens of thousands of rounds through them. The answer to your question for these guns is highly dependent on how they have been taken care of.

The desire for a tight fitting slide on 1911s is (IMO) a relatively modern thing, and you'll find that the old mil. surps. typically were pretty loosy-goosey. But that actually should make them more reliable (just like an AK).

widened feed lips on mags is the #1 cause for problems with used 1911s.

If the mags and springs have been changed at appropriate intervals, mil. spec. 1911s should be very reliable.

I have an RIA milspec that I paid just under $400 for new that has never missed a beat.

BSA1 said:

I have read about them but have yet to see and handled one. Have you?

I fear that import of them may fall victim to the political disagreements between Turkey and United States.

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I have handled a few of the Tisa pistols. They are a solid build.

briang2ad said:

To start learning about 1911s, this article is helpful:

https://www.militarytimes.com/off-d.../08/read-this-before-you-buy-your-first-1911/

Many will tell you that getting a 1911 for less than $1000 is a wast of time. Some set the bar at $2000 min. There ARE reasons for that.

"Milspec" is a misunderstood term, and the "SA Milspec" isn't.

I have a Milspec and its a good gun. I also have an RIA, that AFTER some polishing runs well. These are not necessarily serious 1911s. If I wanted ONE, it would be likely a Dan Wesson, which may be a good entry level of 'good' 1911. Can you spend less and get a reliable gun? Yes. So, I would read, research, then decide.

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There are a LOT of people that like to tell you what they would LIKE to buy/own. Very few of them actually own what they are recommending. Many of them actually own the very item they are telling you NOT to buy. It's always easy to spend someone else's money.

BSA1 said:

My 1911’s have been moded better sights, triggers, etc.



Unfortunately their quality is a issue.



I have read about them but have yet to see and handled one. Have you?

I fear that import of them may fall victim to the political disagreements between Turkey and United States.

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I think you'd be surprised by the quality of the current offerings from Auto Ordinance. Karh Arms bought them several years ago, moved their production to Massachusetts. I've found the fit and finish to be as good or better than Kimber.

Unfortunately most people have never fired a real unmolested USGI 1911a1. They are highly reliable,accurate and easy to clean and maintain. Because everybody and their brother makes some kind of a 1911 based pistol many believe they are the same, most do not follow the TDP. More has been forgotten about the 1911 than has been learned.

I think bad mags and wrong ammo have caused more trouble than the actual gun itself. Had one that refused to be totally reliable with wadcutters, but ran 800 hornady haps in a training class without a hiccup.