.45 long Colt for deer from a rifle - yes or no?

Status
Not open for further replies.
What's up with all the horse killing in this thread anyway? I'm calling BS on any round ever being designed/adopted because it can kill a horse. My buddies dad killed a horse back when we were in high school with a rock he threw at the horse that didn't want to get caught and ridden. .22 LR will do the job better than any rock..

.45 LC on deer? Of course it will.
Personally, I think it's over-quoted and not really relevant today but it is true. The .45Colt was developed, rather hastily I might add, as a horse-killin' cavalry pistol cartridge.
 
Personally, I think it's over-quoted and not really relevant today but it is true. The .45Colt was developed, rather hastily I might add, as a horse-killin' cavalry pistol cartridge.

Quite true. A horse is a much larger target than the person riding him and should be easier to hit during the heat of battle I would think. If the rider survives the the wreck when the horse falls he's at a huge disadvantage on foot.
 
Quite true. A horse is a much larger target than the person riding him and should be easier to hit during the heat of battle I would think. If the rider survives the the wreck when the horse falls he's at a huge disadvantage on foot.


IIRC, George Armstrong Custer had eleven horses shot out from under him during the Civil War (obviously not by .45 Colt, but the horses didn't know that), so I think it's fair to say horses probably were targets.
Custer's own luck prevailed though. Guess the Grey coats valued his horses more ......:evil:
 
What's up with all the horse killing in this thread anyway? I'm calling BS on any round ever being designed/adopted because it can kill a horse. My buddies dad killed a horse back when we were in high school with a rock he threw at the horse that didn't want to get caught and ridden. .22 LR will do the job better than any rock..

.45 LC on deer? Of course it will.

Once upon a time some soldiers rode horses. They were very effective shock troops right up until WWI and the invention of the machine gun. The easiest way to stop a trooper was to shoot the largest target, his horse. If the horse went down either dead or wounded the trooper would too. He may even be killed or injured in the fall. Even if he wasn't he was now on foot and much less of a threat. In fact an easier target. I know horse lovers like to think cowboys and soldiers loved their horses and would give their life for them. I think they've watched way too many hollywood horse operas.
 
I'm a high-powered rifle aficionado and feel that the best weapon for deer in most situations is a .30-06, .308, 7mm-08, .270 Win, or even as low-powered a cartridge as a .30-30. My experiences with pistol cartridges is limited, but kills didn't occur as quickly as I prefer when hunting with .44 Mag handguns or rifles. The rainbow trajectory and reduced killing power of such handgun rounds beyond 100 yards limits my desire to hunt with them.

I hunted with .30-06 rifles for many years before gaining access to a straight haul road with a kill zone almost 500 yards long. Evergreens on each side of that road make it difficult or impossible to find wounded or dead deer beyond the edge of road when the shot was 200 yards or more off the stand. I commonly killed deer out to 350 yards off that road, and with the number of tracks, it was tough to see where my deer crossed. Therefore, I got a .270 Win, with a 24" barrel and the flatter trajectory and quick-kill that the 130 grain Ballistic Tip bullets and the velocity, drops deer in the road about 95% of the time.

I aim for high shots in the shoulder/lung area and deer drop quickly...very rarely needing a second shot. I've actually recovered from the recoil to see bullet strikes at over 200 yards! (Pretty amazing to me.)
 
20190120_181953.jpg

I took this 8 point last year at about 50 yards with my 3.75" barreled Blackhawk using Georgia Arms "Deer Stopper" ammo. It's a 260 grain bullet going a little under 1100 FPS out of that gun. Deer was slightly quartering away so the bullet went in and hit the liver, both lungs, and exited just behind the shoulder. He ran about 15 yards fell and kicked twice. That same bullet out of my friends 1894CB is right at 1500 FPS. I would imagine that it would kill deer about as far as I could accurately shoot them using open sights.
 
Just for the record, my current rifle is in .32 Winchester Special. I am very confident using that for deer. Since I have invested in a .45 LC SAA I have toyed with the idea of a period rifle in the same caliber.
 
I drive places all of the time in my truck; I CCW a .45 Colt for the historical reason as declared on this thread. I must say that I never, ever see a horse on the highway or other roads. In my opinion, this lack of horses speaks to the effect application of this horse killing round - all of the horses around here have apparently been killed - and everyone wants to talk about the decimation of the buffalo?????
 
I've killed deer very effectively with 44's from my carbine.

I don't run top end screamers, or any real fancy bullet. Similar/more effective loads could very safely be used in a 45 carbine.

A warm load of 4227 and a 240gr XTP works very well.

I'd imagine a similarly encouraged 250gr XTP would knock em over just as well.

I only have opportunities to shoot em inside 75yrds, who needs the bulk, cost and recoil of a 45-70 or slug gun for that?
 
Last edited:
Some states are limited bylaw to straight walled ammo for their deer season.

Some states require a minimum energy level too.

In Maryland where the straight walled cartridges are allowed...

Your handgun must have a barrel 6" or longer, and your ammunition at the muzzle must generate 700 ft.lbs. which means a .45 Colt with a 250 grain projectile must exit the muzzle going at least 1124 fps.
A rifle must generate 1200 ft.lbs. form the ammunition that it uses, so the same 250 grain projectile must exit the muzzle going at least 1471 fps.
While I doubt that the DNR is going to take your rifle and ammo and do a chronograph test, a lot of the ammo sold has either the fps printed on the box, OR you can easily look it up on a cell phone, and a lot of the factory .45 Colt ammo that one might use for hunting is not going fast enough to give 700 ft.-lbs.

LD
 
Some years back I was into loading my .45 Colt (Ruger Bisley) as heavily as possible. I had run across a website (Sixgunner.com IIRC) where some dude nicknamed Paco cranked up one enough to kill Cape buffalo.

With hard cast lead bullets, he was getting 48” of penetration in wet newspaper and I believe he got nearly end to end penetration on the buffalo with Keith style hardcast. In a Ruger, they can be loaded to .44 mag pressures but you get more energy because the pressure is applied over a larger area.

In all fairness, his was some type of custom five shot cylinder. It was a beast.

Shooting them was “interesting”. For me, the shine wore off rather quickly. You can only kill paper about so dead
 
Last edited:
You can’t “call BS” on historical fact. It was a requirement of the Army that the pistol it adopted in 1873 shoot a cartridge capable of killing a horse at 100 yards. In theory, at least, the 45LC was deemed able to do so.

https://americanshootingjournal.com/colt-single-action-45-revolver/amp/
Historical fact? Show us the link to the actual army documents stating that objective , not a magazine article by a writer nobody ever heard of who cannot even get his ballistic figures correct. 40 grains of black pushing a 250 gr. bullet out of a 7 1/2" barrel will not get you 1000 FPS. And the Army issued ammo in a slightly shorter case that could be used in both the Schofield and Colt revolvers, which only held 30 grains of powder.

Would it kill a horse? Of course it would, but I doubt that was the sole determining factor in its adoption.
 
Have a SAA .45 Colt six shooter. I was thinking of augmenting it with a lever action rifle in the same caliber. Opinions of many are that in the pistol the .45 LC is not suitable for deer sized big game. What do you think about the same caliber in a rifle?
Absolutely
 
Historical fact? Show us the link to the actual army documents stating that objective , not a magazine article by a writer nobody ever heard of who cannot even get his ballistic figures correct. 40 grains of black pushing a 250 gr. bullet out of a 7 1/2" barrel will not get you 1000 FPS. And the Army issued ammo in a slightly shorter case that could be used in both the Schofield and Colt revolvers, which only held 30 grains of powder.

Would it kill a horse? Of course it would, but I doubt that was the sole determining factor in its adoption.
Hey, I did read the same thing but I really can't recall the book. It wasn't the sole factor but it was ONE of the factors. The Cavalry input wanted it to put down a horse with a minimum of shots. Makes sense since they would be going against other Cavalry. Much as I like the gun and the round I wouldn't use it on Deer. a colt1.jpg
 
The short answer is yes.
Using Elmer Keith's formula for calculating the effectiveness of cartridges can be used here to illuminate why the long answer is still yes.
Velocity x grain weight÷7000
I use 260 grain Keith style, with enough 296 or 2400 to roll them out 1800+ fps resulting in a 68
Comparing that to a 30WCF 170 at 2200 produces 54.
 
Interesting question.

I recall an article in Rifle magazine Issue #151, in which the author tested 45 Colt loads in a '94 Winchester, 16" trapper version. He loaded 300 gr. LBT's to over 1600 fps, which is 454 Casull territory. Sometime later in Handloader #261 Brian Pearce work up loads in a 20" Uberti 45 Colt. Even in this relatively weak rifle, 255 gr. cast bullets were run as fast as 1400 fps.

Bottom line, of course a 45 Colt in a rifle will work for deer.

35W
 
This thread isn't helping alleviate my desire for a 45 Colt lever action with a suppressor. Just saying.
 
Sure a .45 Colt lever gun is good for deer, Hok, just mind the distances...I'd limit it to 100 yds though because placement of the shot is king. Sierra lists 1500+ fps with their 240 gr JHP from a Winchester with a 16" bb. and that's more than enough under 100 yds.. A Marlin with a 20" bbl. will easily give you another 100 fps and those are not the max loads either.

I've used .41 magnums, .357's, & .44 Magnums on deer here in KY with no problems an at the above listed muzzle velocities...all with less than 50 yd trail ups with good hits through the slats. No DRT's, but full penetrations in all cases. That's 9 deer if I'm counting right and all with Marlins in the calibers mentioned. I like handloaded Hornady XTP's in all three. Here's this years and last years bucks. A .41 Mag Marlin used on this years, and a .44 Marlin on last.

YMMv but a rifle/revolver combination in .45 Colt, and with just the standard pressure data, makes a lot of sense to me. Rod

41-2019.jpg
Jack-19.jpg
 
Last edited:
Historical fact? Show us the link to the actual army documents stating that objective , not a magazine article by a writer nobody ever heard of who cannot even get his ballistic figures correct. 40 grains of black pushing a 250 gr. bullet out of a 7 1/2" barrel will not get you 1000 FPS. And the Army issued ammo in a slightly shorter case that could be used in both the Schofield and Colt revolvers, which only held 30 grains of powder.

Would it kill a horse? Of course it would, but I doubt that was the sole determining factor in its adoption.

I'm afraid you will.have to do your own further research. I have stated a fact. Pursue your curiosity on your time. The 45 Govt, which was a compromise between the 45LC and the Schofield, was adopted in order to simplify logistics, and IT in turn served as the basis for the 45ACP, which again, the cavalry demanded be able to kill or disable a horse at 100/yards. Fact. And again, use your own time to research it.
 
I'm afraid you will.have to do your own further research. I have stated a fact. Pursue your curiosity on your time. The 45 Govt, which was a compromise between the 45LC and the Schofield, was adopted in order to simplify logistics, and IT in turn served as the basis for the 45ACP, which again, the cavalry demanded be able to kill or disable a horse at 100/yards. Fact. And again, use your own time to research it.
No, You're the one who stated what you think is a fact, so prove your assertions with historical evidence. Show us where, anywhere, where the army stated on paper, or in a recorded statement, that the horse killing abilities of the cartridge were a primary condition to the adoption of the cartridge.

And don't give me more magazine articles written by gun writers nobody ever heard of, quoting bogus ballistics. Give me actual forensic Army documents stating that the cartridge had to be a horse killer.

I think this whole notion is a myth, repeated by generation after generation, until it has been repeated so many times, and read by so many people, that everybody accepts it as truth.

And FWIW, I hate horses. My sister is dead because of one.
 
Last edited:
A sincere question as I am in the market for a (Ruger?) Marlin 1894 in 45LC with exactly the intention of hogs and deer. I shoot this stuff from HSM in my Ruger Blackhawk and I have carried it for bear protection:

HSM Bear Load

Cartridge:
45 Colt
HSM Code
HSM-45C-7-N
Bullet Weight (Grs.)
325
Bullet Description
Wide Flat Nose Gas Check
Velocity
1155
Energy
963
Cartridge Type
Handgun

https://hsmammunition.com/bear-load/

I have knocked steel over at 100 yards, it will certainly put a deer down. My question, can the Marlin 1894 of any year, JM, Remington or now Ruger safely handle bear level loads from HSM, BB, Garret? For the purpose of hunting deer and hogs most especially up close and not more than 100 yards or so.
 
No, You're the one who stated what you think is a fact, so prove your assertions with historical evidence. Show us where, anywhere, where the army stated on paper, or in a recorded statement, that the horse killing abilities of the cartridge were a primary condition to the adoption of the cartridge.

And don't give me more magazine articles written by gun writers nobody ever heard of, quoting bogus ballistics. Give me actual forensic Army documents stating that the cartridge had to be a horse killer.

I think this whole notion is a myth, repeated by generation after generation, until it has been repeated so many times, and read by so many people, that everybody accepts it as truth.

And FWIW, I hate horses. My sister is dead because of one.

I have stated fact. Prove me wrong.
 
A sincere question as I am in the market for a (Ruger?) Marlin 1894 in 45LC with exactly the intention of hogs and deer. I shoot this stuff from HSM in my Ruger Blackhawk and I have carried it for bear protection:

HSM Bear Load

Cartridge:
45 Colt
HSM Code
HSM-45C-7-N
Bullet Weight (Grs.)
325
Bullet Description
Wide Flat Nose Gas Check
Velocity
1155
Energy
963
Cartridge Type
Handgun

https://hsmammunition.com/bear-load/

I have knocked steel over at 100 yards, it will certainly put a deer down. My question, can the Marlin 1894 of any year, JM, Remington or now Ruger safely handle bear level loads from HSM, BB, Garret? For the purpose of hunting deer and hogs most especially up close and not more than 100 yards or so.

The HSM 325 grain Bear Load is my favorite round to shoot in my Ruger Redhawk. The short answer is ANY Marlin, Rossi, or (modern) Henry could safely shoot it. The question is, can they feed it or stabilize it?

The Marlins so far had a rifling twist too slow to shoot the 300+ grain loadings with any accuracy. I suspect Ruger will change that.

The Rossis can't feed those longer bullets (unless you got one of the 454 Casull versions which will feed & shoot them just fine).

I've yet to see a conclusive answer on the Henrys. The action is plenty strong, and the barrel twist (1:16) is fast enough to stabilize the heavy 325s. Will it feed them? I don't know.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top