Experiences with lee factory crimp rifle dies and how to tell if primer pockets are too loose.

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Craig28

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I recently picked up a .223 rem factory crimp die. The instructions say no cannelure is required and the die will form a crimp grove itself. What do they mean by this? Is it lightly roll crimping the case into the jacket or are you getting more of a taper crimp out of it? Is the jacket getting screwed up in the process? I have handful of bullet types with no cannelure and I'd prefer to put a crimp on them for use in semi-autos.

My second question is how can you tell if you have loose primer pockets? I know it's good indicator if you can simply push primers in with your thumb, but can they still be loose even if that isn't possible and how can you tell? I bought some new winchester 6 rem brass for a good price at cabelas recently. I saw quite a few complaints in the reviews including loose primer pockets, so I'd like to check for any defective cases before loading them.
 
Yup it’s a collet die as Illinois stated. I use a light crimp on my 223 55gr fmj rounds. Lee instructions state for it to touch the shell holder, then a half turn for a light crimp and full turn for a more heavy crimp.

personally I use a half turn for a light crimp. Makes a very slight pressure ring just below the case mouth, which is hardly noticeable. May just have to play with it some, start light as you can always go heavier!
 
Yup it’s a collet die as Illinois stated. I use a light crimp on my 223 55gr fmj rounds. Lee instructions state for it to touch the shell holder, then a half turn for a light crimp and full turn for a more heavy crimp.

personally I use a half turn for a light crimp. Makes a very slight pressure ring just below the case mouth, which is hardly noticeable. May just have to play with it some, start light as you can always go heavier!

Thanks for the input! I'll probably stay as light as possible for non-cannelure bullets and experiment with the cannelure bullets like I do with pistol FCDs.
 
The bottleneck cartridge Lee FCD is a collet crimping die. Essentially the collet squeezes in a circle at a preset height. If no crmip groove on the bullet, its possible.for the collet to squeeze tightly enough to impress a ring into the bullet.


Perhaps my best bet would be to make a few dummy rounds and pull them to see how the jacket is affected.
 
What are you loading these rounds for? If it’s for a bolt gun, I wouldn’t crimp at all. If it’s for an AR, I out a medium (3/4 turn) crimp on them with the collet die.

As for loose pockets, I can feel it when seating the primer. If it’s way too easy, I toss it.
 
I have a Lee Collet Crimp for .223 and since I no longer have a semi-auto in that caliber I don't use it. Good tool and I have one for 30-06 and 44 Magnum. As far as "loose" primer pockets I believe it's a matter of "feel". If one is having problems with feeling the resistance when seating primers a go/no go gauge, while extremely tedious, would work. I haven't reloaded enough hot rifle rounds enough times to experience loose primers, yet...
 
Ballistic tools has some go/no-go gauges for the primer pockets. They work great I just tend not to use them unless I absolutely feel I need to. If this was new brass I wouldn't worry too much about loose pockets.

I have the Ballistic tools as well and they do work good. When hand priming with my RCBS primer tool I can feel loose pocket very easily. If I notice that a batch of brass seems to have loose pockets I will stop priming them and check the pockets with the tool. I might pull anything already loaded with a loose pocket or I might just mark the case to use during sight in or general shooting then toss it after it's unloaded. On a progressive press its a little harder to feel loose pockets so if I suspect a batch of brass is getting close to it's end of life I will randomly check a few pieces before loading and go from there on what to do with it.
 
My second question is how can you tell if you have loose primer pockets? I know it's good indicator if you can simply push primers in with your thumb, but can they still be loose even if that isn't possible and how can you tell? I bought some new winchester 6 rem brass for a good price at cabelas recently. I saw quite a few complaints in the reviews including loose primer pockets, so I'd like to check for any defective cases before loading them.

I don't crimp any of my simi-autos (AR-15's and AR-10's). If you have 0.003" bullet fit you will be good.

As for primers if you can put them in my hand the brass is toast. If one feels light, I will test it by seeing it I can push it out by hand. If I can't, I still use it but mark the brass so I know that a different primer will be needed. If it comes out the brass goes into the recycle bin.

Some primers are larger than others which will allow you to still use the brass. Just want be your std load with a different primer.
 
Thanks for the input! I'll probably stay as light as possible for non-cannelure bullets and experiment with the cannelure bullets like I do with pistol FCDs.
The pistol FCD is a plain old roll crimp die with the addition of a carbide ring to post-size the straight walled case. They do not work the same.

For the rifle cartridges, I've used the FCD since theh became available back in mid-1990s. Honestly it seemed like the crimped rounds shoot more consistently than non-crimped with reduced vertical stringing which I suspect is more consistent ignition/burn. I don't shoot any large animals with 224 bullets so I cannot state whether is changes the bullet performance on game, however I also FCD crimp my 30-06 rounds which are loaded with speer hot-cors (speer does not recommend crimping them). The expanded bullets look the same crimp or no-crimp when I dig them out of dirt or shoot into water filled jugs & accuracy seems to be same.

* why do I crimp? Because I've had misfeeds jamb bullets down into cases with uncrimped reloads. Hasn't repeated since with crimped and haven't experienced any downside in 25 years of using them. Besides, you might have noticed probably 95% of factory ammo is crimped. They are using virgin brass so neck tension isn't an issue. There might could be a good reason otherwise...
 
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What are you loading these rounds for? If it’s for a bolt gun, I wouldn’t crimp at all. If it’s for an AR, I out a medium (3/4 turn) crimp on them with the collet die.

As for loose pockets, I can feel it when seating the primer. If it’s way too easy, I toss it.
I'm loading them primarily for a mini 14 which can be a little rough on bullets. I've used bullets that weren't crimped without any problems, but i'd prefer to be on the safe side.
 
I use the FCD for rifle rnds and magnum pistol rnds, doing a "very" light crimp, you can barely see it, I think it gives me piece of mind. I think seating at one station and crimping at another is easier to get consistent ammo. I feel that consistent case length is important.
When I find a loose primer pocket while priming I mark the brass and recycle it after firing
 
The instructions say no cannelure is required and the die will form a crimp grove itself. What do they mean by this?

The Lee RIFLE FCD is a collet crimp die. When the ram goes up, it squeezes those four petals together around the neck of the case. If you would set the die to maximum crimp (or near it), when the ram goes up, there would be no gap between the petals, which would squeeze the brass and deform the bullet. The deformed bullet is what they mean by a formed crimp groove.

Is the jacket getting screwed up in the process?

It all depends on your die adjustment. Others have mentioned a light crimp for consistency. If you set it near max, you will deform the brass neck and the bullet. It is beneficial to make up a dummy round (sized brass and bullet, but NO powder or primer), seat the bullet, crimp the bullet, and then pull the bullet to see how deformed it is.

I'd prefer to put a crimp on them for use in semi-autos.

Just note that semi-autos do not require a crimp. Neck tension holds the bullet, not crimp.

how can you tell if you have loose primer pockets?

This takes touch and depends on how a reloader primes cases. The easiest way to tell is using a hand primer, like a Lee auto prime or similar. Priming new brass or once fired can create a baseline of how much force it takes. There are variables though. Primer pocket size and primer size can vary depending on brand. Once you get a baseline for touch, you can feel when one it waaaay too light. An easy benchmark is 223 Federal brass. (I wouldn't buy it but maybe you can get a few range pick ups or just buy a box of ammo to do the following test.) On the first reloading, the primer force will be reasonably equal with other headstamps. On the second reloading, it tends to require less force. About the third reloading, it is so light it feels like you could put the primer in by hand (even though the hand primer does give mechanical advantage.) It's that feeling of taking very little force to prime where it is time to consider tossing that batch of brass in the recycling bin. I'm sure some reloaders continue to shoot brass until it cannot hold a primer. Truly, a reloader can be more aggressive in eeking out every last firing with a bolt, lever, or single shot. Withe semi-autos, I'm more conservative when it comes to that brass being the gasket that keeps 53,000+ psi away from me.
 
I find my bottle necked rifle ammo is less accurate when I crimp it so unless it is to be used in a tube fed firearm I do not crimp it. Your choice there.

I use the old round Lee hand primer still. If the primer feels too easy to seat (experience) I will use a pointed scratch awl (old ice pick) to try and push the primer back out. If it stays I mark the head with a black marker. If it falls out I will save the brass and try larger (metric one CBC,Wolf, etc) prmers later, if they work and I can't push it out I use it and mark it with a red marker to be scrapped next time. YMMV
 
What are you loading these rounds for? If it’s for a bolt gun, I wouldn’t crimp at all. If it’s for an AR, I out a medium (3/4 turn) crimp on them with the collet die.

As for loose pockets, I can feel it when seating the primer. If it’s way too easy, I toss it.


I would be crimping them primarily for a mini 14. 3/4 turn crimp on bullets with a cannelure?
 
The pistol FCD is a plain old roll crimp die with the addition of a carbide ring to post-size the straight walled case. They do not work the same.

For the rifle cartridges, I've used the FCD since theh became available back in mid-1990s. Honestly it seemed like the crimped rounds shoot more consistently than non-crimped with reduced vertical stringing which I suspect is more consistent ignition/burn. I don't shoot any large animals with 224 bullets so I cannot state whether is changes the bullet performance on game, however I also FCD crimp my 30-06 rounds which are loaded with speer hot-cors (speer does not recommend crimping them). The expanded bullets look the same crimp or no-crimp when I dig them out of dirt or shoot into water filled jugs & accuracy seems to be same.

* why do I crimp? Because I've had misfeeds jamb bullets down into cases with uncrimped reloads. Hasn't repeated since with crimped and haven't experienced any downside in 25 years of using them. Besides, you might have noticed probably 95% of factory ammo is crimped. They are using virgin brass so neck tension isn't an issue. There might could be a good reason otherwise...

I'm aware of that. I meant I'll incrementally adjust the rifle FCD the way I incrementally experiment with the crimper knob on the pistol FCD.

I've heard rounds crimped with the FCD are more consistent. Good to know someone can actually attest to that claim.

Unknowingly jamming a bullet into the case is what I'd like to avoid. Figured I might as well crimp for good measure.
 
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