My problem (as a person working in the industry) with GunBroker

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Well, see while it may be a low ball from the LGS that guy has to try to turn and resell the gun, the other guy doesn't. If the LGS bought at $500 like the other guy he'd have to try and sell for MORE than that and run the risk of not selling at all (and thereby, loosing $500). People don't see the difference between involving a middle man and selling directly to the end user and that is why you'll almost always get less when selling to a gun shop.

I understand how resale works. The example I gave would have been a 100% profit, if the gun sold for $500. Being a S&W guy and given the condition of the gun, it was worth even more than that. My fat fingers typed model 19....it was a model 29, P&R. I know I would have gladly given $500 for it on the spot, but out of courtesy to the other gentleman, I stepped aside. So......either the clerk didn't know what he was looking at, or he was lowballing the guy. Now, the clerk was not the owner, but the main gun counter guy. Have bought several firearms from him myself. I'm thinking he knew exactly what it was. I'm thinking that's why he got so upset when the other customer offered $500.
 
What's your take?

It would help if all people had to run a small business that bought used items and had to sell those same items at a profit that kept their business doors open.

However, most are getting a paycheck from an employer and are removed from the concept of making a business operating level of profit. Almost every one of those people get offended by offers of 30% to 40% of retail for any item when taking that item to a dealer.

The answer is simple, but not often taken well. If you don't want the dealer's offer, sell it elsewhere.

People ought to be glad that guns hold some value at all after they've owned them for any length of time. Considering what people throw away in the purchasing and using of electronic items, we all should be thankful. This laptop I'm writing on right now is two years old and maybe worth 1/3rd what it was new. Just wait another 10 years and let's see what it's value will be.
 
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It's not just GB but in fact everything in the secondary-market.

EBey is the WORST!

Folk see what items are listed for and then without attending to EXACTLY whether the listed item literally and directly equates to their time and also ignoring realized prices.... They bound off spouting off the value of their item because they; "... saw one just like it on..." ebay, easy, ruby lane, arms list, gun broker.....

Usually I have to tough-love them:

Your items and the example are not the same. Here; condition, quality, age, authenticity....

Your example did NOT sell for that price.

Todd.
 
I understand how resale works. The example I gave would have been a 100% profit, if the gun sold for $500. Being a S&W guy and given the condition of the gun, it was worth even more than that. My fat fingers typed model 19....it was a model 29, P&R. I know I would have gladly given $500 for it on the spot, but out of courtesy to the other gentleman, I stepped aside. So......either the clerk didn't know what he was looking at, or he was lowballing the guy. Now, the clerk was not the owner, but the main gun counter guy. Have bought several firearms from him myself. I'm thinking he knew exactly what it was. I'm thinking that's why he got so upset when the other customer offered $500.

Good on you to step aside. As far as the other two, if I was the shop owner or manager, I'd be upset that other people were making business propositions in front of me inside my shop. The other "buyer" should wait until the seller has physically walked away from the negotiation process with the employee.
 
daniel craig, yeah I feel your dilemma. It is difficult to school those that, how shall i say it nicely, suffer from some form of diminished capacity. I use GB and Ebay to see what people ACTUALLY pay for items based on condition and completeness of the item,it gives me a GUIDE, not an ABSOLUTE, of what the item can sell for. Guns sell for different prices in different parts of the county, what you can get for one type of gun in one location is not representative of another, many variables.
 
Having worked in "the industry" for more than fifty years and used GB as well as many of the big auction houses, my "take" is that the vast majority of the people in "the industry" today are low-life thieves out to screw anyone and everyone in order to put a dime in their own pockets. At the top of the list is Cabela's and the idiots who work for or did work for them and now work for another den of thieves. There aren't possibly enough bad things to be said about this company. Working down the list, next come the auction houses that take 10 - 25% from the seller and another 10 - 25% from the buyer and then add a outrageous amount for "handling and shipping." Some of the thieves in the auction houses will even buy items from their so-called competitors and then sell them at their next auction or use their FFL to buy brand new firearms at wholesale prices from manufacturers and distributors and sell them at their auctions. Next are the thieves who see the "flipping" shows on tv and decide they can do the same thing with firearms. They actually will buy a firearm from one website and then try to sell it after jacking up the price anywhere from 25 to 100+% on another website or auction. And it goes on and on downhill from there until we get to the thieves who steal firearms, often literally steal, from widows and grieving families or families being torn apart by fights over inheritance. Now that I'm thinking about it, these thieves probably should be pushed up the list to second place just below Cabela's. So... exactly where do you fall in this list?
 
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It would help if all people had to run a small business that bought used items and had to sell those same items at a profit that kept their business doors open.

However, most are getting a paycheck from an employer and are removed from the concept of making a business operating level of profit. Almost every one of those people get offended by offers of 30% to 40% of retail for any item when taking that item to a dealer.

The answer is simple, but not often taken well. If you don't want the dealer's offer, sell it elsewhere.

People ought to be glad that guns hold some value at all after they've owned them for any length of time. Considering what people throw away in the purchasing and using of electronic items, we all should be thankful. This laptop I'm writing on right now is two years old and maybe worth 1/3rd what it was new. Just wait another 10 years and let's see what it's value will be.
Electronics depreciate in value so fast it'll make your head explode. It ain't even funny.
 
Having worked in "the industry" for more than fifty years and used GB as well as many of the big auction houses, my "take" is that the vast majority of the people in "the industry" today are low-life thieves out to screw anyone and everyone in order to put a dime in their own pockets. At the top of the list is Cabela's and the idiots who work for or did work for them and now work for another den of thieves. There aren't possibly enough bad things to be said about this company. Working down the list, next come the auction houses that take 10 - 25% from the seller and another 10 - 25% from the buyer and then add a outrageous amount for "handling and shipping." Some of the thieves in the auction houses will even buy items from their so-called competitors and then sell them at their next auction or use their FFL to buy brand new firearms at wholesale prices from manufacturers and distributors and sell them at their auctions. Next are the thieves who see the "flipping" shows on tv and decide they can do the same thing with firearms. They actually will buy a firearm from one website and then try to sell it after jacking up the price anywhere from 25 to 100+% on another website or auction. And it goes on and on downhill from there until we get to the thieves who steal firearms, often literally steal, from widows and grieving families or families being torn apart by fights over inheritance. Now that I'm thinking about it, these thieves probably should be pushed up the list to second place just below Cabela's. So... exactly where do you fall in this list?
Yikes. I'm sorry to hear that. I definitely haven't been doing it that long but I try to chalk it up to Capitalism, I mean, it's the very heart of capitalism to make as much profit as you can. I don't think most people wake up in the morning wanting to screw someone else over (maybe just screw them....) But maybe I'm naive.
 
Working down the list, next come the auction houses that take 10 - 25% from the seller and another 10 - 25% from the buyer and then add a outrageous amount for "handling and shipping."

My most recent auction purchase was for $800. After buyers premium, shipping, handling, packaging, paperwork fee, etc the invoice total was $1,185. They also included 7% sales tax for the first time on top of all the other fees. After paying FFL transfer fee the total was over $1,200. That's a 50% markup on top of the hammer price!
 
Too much emotion; Guns or any item/ service is traded for money. If the item is worth more than the money, it will transfer; if the money is worth more than the item, it will not transfer. Perceived value and real value may be the same thing or it may be worlds apart. The buyer/ seller choose the common value in that world and a deal gets done; if that world doesn’t find common ground, nothing happens. Both parties have exactly the same control; one controls the item and one controls the money - they both start out equally and search together for the common ground - sometimes that ground is found and sometimes not - no emotion necessary.
 
Having worked in "the industry" for more than fifty years and used GB as well as many of the big auction houses, my "take" is that the vast majority of the people in "the industry" today are low-life thieves out to screw anyone and everyone in order to put a dime in their own pockets. At the top of the list is Cabela's and the idiots who work for or did work for them and now work for another den of thieves. There aren't possibly enough bad things to be said about this company. Working down the list, next come the auction houses that take 10 - 25% from the seller and another 10 - 25% from the buyer and then add a outrageous amount for "handling and shipping." Some of the thieves in the auction houses will even buy items from their so-called competitors and then sell them at their next auction or use their FFL to buy brand new firearms at wholesale prices from manufacturers and distributors and sell them at their auctions. Next are the thieves who see the "flipping" shows on tv and decide they can do the same thing with firearms. They actually will buy a firearm from one website and then try to sell it after jacking up the price anywhere from 25 to 100+% on another website or auction. And it goes on and on downhill from there until we get to the thieves who steal firearms, often literally steal, from widows and grieving families or families being torn apart by fights over inheritance. Now that I'm thinking about it, these thieves probably should be pushed up the list to second place just below Cabela's. So... exactly where do you fall in this list?
I'm just a guy working for a larger company not trying to screw people over but also being forced to use the Blue Book
 
I'd probably have made several more purchases on gunbroker, but get tired of looking at the listings. A quick glance at how many ending listings have Zero bits tells you the trend that prices are just set way too high. Taking time to look at listings - and sifting through after a while becomes the largest expense it trying to find a reasonable prices. I'd personally rather pay a good/reasonable prices, for something I want that is in the condition I want, than spend countless hours trying to save 10% off an asking price. Time is money. Because the trend is to list just about everything over what anyone is willing to even bid on, they are costing themselves any real volume of transactions. Gunbroker should reign in - sellers who's listings almost always end with zero bids, it makes the site a swamp of listings that are just noise - and a waste of anyone's time to even see them, since nobody bids on them.
 
I blame stores like Bass Pro for a big part of this as well. Someone that made the mistake of paying $1100 for a Sig p226 today at Bass Pro is going to think they can get something like that back out of it when they sell not realizing that online retailers recently had the same gun for under $600 new.
Caveat emptor. The free market will educate the ignorant. :)
 
Having worked in "the industry" for more than fifty years and used GB as well as many of the big auction houses, my "take" is that the vast majority of the people in "the industry" today are low-life thieves out to screw anyone and everyone in order to put a dime in their own pockets. At the top of the list is Cabela's and the idiots who work for or did work for them and now work for another den of thieves. There aren't possibly enough bad things to be said about this company. Working down the list, next come the auction houses that take 10 - 25% from the seller and another 10 - 25% from the buyer and then add a outrageous amount for "handling and shipping." Some of the thieves in the auction houses will even buy items from their so-called competitors and then sell them at their next auction or use their FFL to buy brand new firearms at wholesale prices from manufacturers and distributors and sell them at their auctions. Next are the thieves who see the "flipping" shows on tv and decide they can do the same thing with firearms. They actually will buy a firearm from one website and then try to sell it after jacking up the price anywhere from 25 to 100+% on another website or auction. And it goes on and on downhill from there until we get to the thieves who steal firearms, often literally steal, from widows and grieving families or families being torn apart by fights over inheritance. Now that I'm thinking about it, these thieves probably should be pushed up the list to second place just below Cabela's. So... exactly where do you fall in this list?


I'm helping a fellow Veteran's widow sell his collection of firearms. I used GunBroker and other sources to set realistic prices on the items.

Last week I took her the first batch of cash. It was north of $5k. She had tears in her eyes. She wasn't expecting that much nor did she even know the first batch was worth that much. I still have a couple of items that haven't sold. I'll do some price adjustments to move them. One of them is really really calling me. A Marlin Golden 39A Mountie. If I had what it was worth it would have a permanent place in my safe.
 
My take is that Gunbroker is just another avenue one may buy and sell guns on.

So, if a person thinks for whatever reason their gun is worth XXX amount, they can feel free to attempt to sell in any legal venue in which they believe might get then their asking price.

Conversely, people are also free to BUY in the same fashion in order to get the best deal possible.

My answer to people who think their gun is worth excessively high amounts based on any source, such as an auction on Gunbroker, would be to ask them "If I tried to sell YOU this gun at that price or higher, would you buy it, especially when you can find the same thing over here for much cheaper?"
 
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So, as a person whose job it is to buy and sell guns I've noticed a trend in both buyers and sellers (but mostly people selling/trying to get us to buy their gun).

That trend is to look the gun up on GunBroker, take a cursory glance at the prices there and assume that is the worth of their firearm.

What I feel is part of the problem, and please, I'd like to start a civil discussion here, is that many people don't realize that GunBroker is a lot like eBay in that a seller can ask literally any price he/she/they feel like BUT that DOESN'T mean the seller will actually fetch that price. I think a lot of people who use GunBroker to find a value for their gun don't take this into consideration and assume that a seller's asking price must be what the guns are currently going for without digging further to see what the guns actually consistently SELL for.

What that further compounds the issue is people don't realize that in order to re-sell a gun at what it's worth (and at a fair enough price to move the inventory in a reasonable amount of time) the seller is going to, naturally, offer less than a gun might be worth.

I think there's a shift that needs to happen and it starts with the proper use of sites like GunBroker (it's only one aspect of the disconnect between buyers and sellers but I think it plays a large part).

What's your take?
I think you are right, and I am guessing the pawn business gets the same type of offers.

I can't understand it either. A Gun shop has to turn a profit to warrant the gun sitting in their case, or they could just as easily put something else in it's place. Purchasing a used gun from someone also represents the binding up of that shop's money.

I have sold and traded many guns to my LGS. My guns are always clean, oiled, and in excellent condition, so my basic procedure is:
1. Check what the asking price is for your gun at new retail pricing.
2. Acknowledge that at best, an excellent used version of the same gun will only sell for 80-85% of the cost of new, unless it has a great deal of collector's appeal.
3. Acknowledge that rare or old and in good condition does not necessarily mean valuable. there has to be a market.
4. Check Gunbroker for prices on sold guns, or ones with bids on them at least.
5. Realize that some Gunbroker sellers have little or no overhead.
6. Accept that you are engaged in a hobby that costs money, and if you are selling or trading a gun to an LGS, consider that as money already spent.
7. Consider that not waiting forever to find a buyer or having to conduct fast food restaurant parking lot transactions is part of why you accept a lower price. IT's done and over with.
8. Then, finally after all that, ask for 65% of the going rate for that gun, but be prepared to go down to 55%. In the end, after a lifetime, if you work with a good LGS you will likely recover 60% of the value on average, which leaves 20-25% of the value of that used gun for the LGS. They have to turn a profit or it isn't worth their while.

Accepting this mindset also helps you build a good working relationship with the LGS. I have lost thousands on this hobby, but I have the guns I want. A big part of that was trading in guns to my LGS for better guns, but I made it worth their time. I get a happy hello when ever I go in...…………… except for that one weird dude who works there.

If you want or need top dollar, sell privately and cut out the middle man.
 
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I’m a patient buyer. I know of and often use GB Completed Listings. I wait and I wait and I wait some more for the right deal. When it presents itself I pounce fast and hard. Here is the important part though. If I miss out on it still, I don't care and I move on.

Usually I sell guns on consignment from the local shop. He takes, 20% but that is fair for me not to have to put up with the BS of selling it myself. That way I still get 80% of the guns street value and the shop owner has no cost of goods sold.
 
My take is that Gunbroker is just another avenue one may buy and sell guns on.

So, I'd a person thinks for whatever reason their gun is worth XXX amount, they can feel free to attempt to sell in any legal venue in which they believe might get then their asking price.

Conversely, people are also free to BUY in the same fashion in order to get the best deal possible.

My answer to people who think their gun is worth excessively high amounts based on any source, such as an auction on Gunbroker, would be to ask them "If I tried to sell YOU this gun at that price or higher, would you buy it, especially when you can find the same thing over here for much cheaper?"

That tactic usually does work
 
One of the local pawn shops with whom I've done a lot of firearms business, hired a new manager who's duties include the firearms end of the business. They sell a decent amount of firearms. Well, used to.

One of the new policies he tried to enact involved pricing via gunbroker. Whereupon the former manager priced firearms for sale by that years blue book value and bought guns for a decent price, the new guy started playing some shenanigans that led to me taking a lot of my business elsewhere.
When bringing a firearm in to SELL, he would pull out an outdated 4-5 year old blue book, find the lowest value that he could possibly apply to the firearm (including falsely labeling rarer or more collectible versions of a gun as a more common variant with lower values, calling guns a lower grade than they actually were, and misidentifying guns altogether as a less expensive or budget model), then cutting the dubious value he "appraised" it at in half for his offer.

offered me $600 total for the pair when I was looking to sell a mint 4" S&W 627 pro and a 95% 4" 586, for instance

But when you came in to buy a gun and had anything to say about pricing, he would immediately bring up gunbroker, type in the model, and sort "highest to lowest" in pricing, then claim the gun was worth whatever the highest gunbroker pricing was, bids or no bids. I saw some insane prices on guns in there for a while before the owner stepped in and toned down pricing to just moderately insane.

What really chapped me was his habit of using his gunbroker trick to "appraise" transfers for taxation purposes. So a gun that you paid, lets say $1000 for online and had it shipped to him for transfer, and lets say the seller didn't include an invoice, the gun magically became taxed at $2200 value at the transfer because some other bozo had a similar gun listed for $2200 on gunbroker. I started insisting on online sellers including invoices in their shipments for that reason.

Their firearm side of the business has been in steep decline since.
 
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I just research what a new gun of the same model is selling for. Unless there is a reason for that model to be worth more than brand new.
 
That and guns depreciate in value the way cars do, perhaps even worse.

You must be buying different guns than I've been buying over the last 20 years. It's rare I don't at least break even on even a fairly cheap gun, sold on one of the online sites. Cultish guns are a good investment, if not a great one, some go for way more than they really should. I've nearly doubled the price of some of my guns after owning them a few years. My selling off my gun collections (most of them) twice, due to financial problems related with my mother's various illnesses and tax hit upon her death have saved me financial ruin both times. In 2013, I would have almost for sure had to declare bankruptcy if I hadn't sold about $10K worth of my guns to pay off the taxes I owed. Instead of maxing out a credit card to survive for a while, I sold like 13 guns, and paid the taxes without taking out any more loans, etc, and a few years later, had all the guns back and more, and have more in savings than I've had since I was 20 years old. And unless everything totally goes into the toilet with this latest crisis, I'm all set, money wise.
 
I see people bringing in 20-30 year old run of the mill 870s (not even wing masters) expecting them to be some kind of jewel and that's just one example. And while I'd often take an older one over a newer one, most people buying used guns would only do so if they older one could be sold cheaper than a newer one.
 
Having worked in "the industry" for more than fifty years and used GB as well as many of the big auction houses, my "take" is that the vast majority of the people in "the industry" today are low-life thieves out to screw anyone and everyone in order to put a dime in their own pockets.
Jeez. You should start your own business to help out the oppressed.

You can pay the rent, the utilities, all the salaries, the taxes, the depreciation, take the losses from shoplifters. Then when you make $100 markup on a couple guns a day, people call you a thief.

If you think small business is so lucrative, start your own. You too can be filthy rich and live the American dream
 
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