Webley info

Status
Not open for further replies.
Since this was the OP's LOCAL GUN STORE and he has had adequate time to get there and buy it . Here is the gun posted on GB by the store. These guns have a rougher than a cob finish, it has probably been cerocoated so why mess with a functional nicely modified real heavy duty fun shooter ?
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/862506285
"
Up for auction is an Enfield No. 2 MK I that is chambered in .38 Smith and Wesson, with a 2 1/8” barrel. This gun has been redone in regards to the finish with either Duracoat, or a similar type coating. There is a majority of the finish remaining as redone. The grips appear to be original, and are fit nicely to the frame, with no cracks, breaks, or repairs showing throughout. A majority of the factory markings are either absent, or partially washed out. Mechanically the gun remains in good shape, with a smooth and consistent trigger pull, good timing, and no internal issues present. There is some minor wear showing in the bore, with good rifling lines showing throughout, and no wear in the chambers, or at the muzzle. The serial number on the gun is 8852,"

View attachment 903474
View attachment 903475

Hell of a good build up job, maches the rest of "fisish" perfectly. This is the best forgery I've seen in 50 years of looking at these snub tankers. It IS possible Numrich or other suppliers made the snub barrel after market. But this one show a little wear from age. If OP could pick it up for $399 (or slightly less) it would be a major score for a fun and useful gat IMHO.
Matches the finish but not the barrel markings in a perfect arc from barrel to sight as they are known for.
The finish is merely on top of the modification. Hell, and then there's the crack at the pin (NOT screw) hole.
Todd.
 
A nice little article that helps explain the snub nose Webleys

http://www.nrvoutdoors.com/ENFIELD SNUB/ENFI
A nice little article that helps explain the snub nose Webleys

[URL='http://www.nrvoutdoors.com/ENFIELD%20SNUB/ENFIELD%20SNUB.htm']http://www.nrvoutdoors.com/ENFIELD SNUB/ENFIELD SNUB.htm

ELD SNUB.htm[/URL]
Thank you for posting that. I knew I had read about the "Snub" Webley's, but couldn't remember where. I still have mine.
 
The bobbed hammer, no spur, is actually Enfield No. 2 Mark 1*. These were originally developed for and issued to AFV crews after complaints about the hammer spur catching on various & sundry surfaces when bailingoutof AFV',s, especiallyin a hurry such as exitingaknocked out AFV. Later, there was a decision to not keep the Enfield No. 2 Mark 1 that retained the hammer spur available as issue for troops who were not assigned to AFV crews for simplification of logistics, and the Enfield No. 2 Mk 1 was dropped and the Enfield No. 2 Mk 1* was retained for all troops. Additionally Enfield No. 2 Mk 1 pistols returned for arsenal rework were modified to Enfield No. 2 Mk 1* during the work. It's uncommon to find an Enfield No. 2 Mk 1 pistols (that still have a hammer spur). Thus any given Enfield No. 2 Mk 1* lacking the hammer spur is not necessarily a sign that particular pistol was ever issued to or carried by a member of an AFV crew. To my knowledge none of either version had a barrel shorter than 5" was part of issue or rework as part of military issue to any military personnel. All have a reputation for high DA trigger pull effort.

Here's a source for period-correct ammo loads for these and similar pistols, .38 S&W and / or .38-200 for the original 200 grain projectile weight).

https://shop.reedsammo.com/38-SW-Not-38-Special_c168.htm

I once owned a Webley Mark IV chambered for this cartridge that had a safety in the frame above the grip area that blocked the action (both DA &.SA). Those are some of the few revolvers manufactured with a safety (but not a lock - no key involved).
 
That is one of the best articles I've read !
"
Mr M.L. Johnson ( the machinist) really knew his stuff: if you know where to look, you can find the seam where the sight was milled off the end of the barrel and silver-soldered or brazed onto the stump, but it's damned near invisible. Furthermore, the muzzle is properly recess-crowned, not just cut off flat. My gun is as tight as if it were new, by far the tightest No. 2 I've ever encountered; and the finish (the standard black baked-on paint job) is pretty much perfect. Since shortening the barrel and relocating the sight would have damaged the original finish, obviously it's been re-finished, but the job is first-class work. Maybe it was one of the "special selection" $3-extra guns if Seaport Traders was the vendor.

The workmanship is so good that it's easy to see why people think it must have been some sort of official Enfield product. Whenever I see such a gun for sale I contact the owner and ask them to look for the "seam" under the front sight, and invariably they reply that it's there but hard to make out. This convinces me that no original 2" barreled No. 2's exist, that all of them are conversions. The original front sight base was part of the barrel forging. Nor does Skennerton's book on these guns mention the short barrels at all."
 
I am completely flabbergasted by prices on Army surplus these days.
Local store thinks they can get $750 for a Webley Mk IV .38.

I think Zorg's crossbolt safety was an importer's addition to garner BATF points to get into the country. Like the safeties scabbed onto Tokarevs.
 
I am completely flabbergasted by prices on Army surplus these days.
Local store thinks they can get $750 for a Webley Mk IV .38.

I think Zorg's crossbolt safety was an importer's addition to garner BATF points to get into the country. Like the safeties scabbed onto Tokarevs.
No , I sold someone on this forum a very nice condition Singapore Police gun , which had that safety on it. I think the Shanghai Police ones had it to and the "Sun never sets on the Empire" last Webleys had it too for the Brits as you could still get a fire arm license then . I notice the Sinapore police guns in the high condition the one I sold are now more than double what I got! But I am glad he got it , he shares my fondness for the .38 S&W round AND my love of Webleys.
 
I am completely flabbergasted by prices on Army surplus these days.
Local store thinks they can get $750 for a Webley Mk IV .38.

I think Zorg's crossbolt safety was an importer's addition to garner BATF points to get into the country. Like the safeties scabbed onto Tokarevs.

Well you're quite mistaken. These were primarily issued to police forces such as in Singapore. The Webley-Fosbury revolver, a self-cocking "semi auto" revolver that AFAIK still holds the revolver speed record also was manufactured with a safety that blocked the action.



https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/webley-mk-iv.595880/

https://forums.gunboards.com/showth...bley-MK-IV-38-Singapore-Police#/topics/264190

I also have an original Tokarev TT-33 I purchased in the late 1980's, and I've honestly never been interested in purchasing any versions of that pistol with an add-on safety. I've heard of problems with some such pistols that have never been an issue with my TT-33 (for one very obvious reason).
 
Last edited:
I'll be jiggered, sure enough the funky cross bolt safety was a Webley option. I would have expected a lever like the Webley Fosberry's.
I see that the Singapore police, like Shanghai, were under the influence of Col Fairbairn, who had ideas about handguns that would be thought strange now.
 
With all that coating, is the serial number on the frame actually readable? The seller listed a number, but where is the number visible? If not on the frame, that is a problem.
 
No , I sold someone on this forum a very nice condition Singapore Police gun , which had that safety on it. I think the Shanghai Police ones had it to and the "Sun never sets on the Empire" last Webleys had it too for the Brits as you could still get a fire arm license then

The Singapore Police revolvers had a safety. The special run of 250 Last Webleys did not.

zrN0nUF.jpg
 
With all that coating, is the serial number on the frame actually readable? The seller listed a number, but where is the number visible? If not on the frame, that is a problem.
A lot of times it is on the cylinder as well - unfortunately, mostly with .455s - it has been switched and doesn't match.

Todd.
 
With all that coating, is the serial number on the frame actually readable? The seller listed a number, but where is the number visible? If not on the frame, that is a problem.
On my Enfield No. 2 Mk. 1, the serial number is stamped in tiny numbers in two places: on the bottom of the frame in front of the trigger guard, and on the bottom of the barrel lug. These two stampings are within an inch of each other, on either side of the main hinge. Needless to say, the two numbers should match.
A lot of times it is on the cylinder as well
There is no serial number on my cylinder. The back face of the cylinder does have some miscellaneous proof marks as well as the Broad Arrow indicating official issue.
.38 S&W ammo is readily available.
Modern commercial .38 S&W ammo is readily available, but the original .38/200 loading is not. If you don't use that heavy-bullet loading, the sights will be off. (.38/200 ammo may be available from Matt's Bullets.)
 
I agree that it’s an Enfield No 2 Mk 1* that has been modified. Not worth as much as an unmodified revolver but still collectible.
I have two Enfield No 2 Mk 1** that I picked up at a local shop a few years ago. And yes the both have two ** behind the No 2 Mk 1.
Here’s a link to the post I did on them.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/my-black-friday-enfield-no-2-mk-1.636240/#post-7869412

The difference between the Enfield and the Webley is easy to spot by looking at the trigger guard where it meets the frame. The Enfield has a side plate and the Webley doesn’t. Here’s a pic with the Webley on top.
DD0A6E69-9CBE-4282-A084-492F8C608205.jpeg
 
I am not a Webley guy , but I must say that , as globbered up as that finish is , and with the sight build-up on the cut down barrel being non-parallel to the bore axis - and with a fissure or fault showing in the starboard side of said build-up , I would not be inclined to sink money into that one. Too far gone ; I would derive no pleasure from having it.
 
I am not a Webley guy , but I must say that , as globbered up as that finish is , and with the sight build-up on the cut down barrel being non-parallel to the bore axis - and with a fissure or fault showing in the starboard side of said build-up , I would not be inclined to sink money into that one. Too far gone ; I would derive no pleasure from having it.

That mirrors my thoughts. This seems like one that would grab my attention on payday then I’d sleep on it. Then when i returned the next day I’d be glad I didn’t buy.
 
On my Enfield No. 2 Mk. 1, the serial number is stamped in tiny numbers in two places: on the bottom of the frame in front of the trigger guard, and on the bottom of the barrel lug. These two stampings are within an inch of each other, on either side of the main hinge. Needless to say, the two numbers should match.

There is no serial number on my cylinder. The back face of the cylinder does have some miscellaneous proof marks as well as the Broad Arrow indicating official issue.

Modern commercial .38 S&W ammo is readily available, but the original .38/200 loading is not. If you don't use that heavy-bullet loading, the sights will be off. (.38/200 ammo may be available from Matt's Bullets.)
I posted a link in an earlier post to Reed's Ammunition and Research in OK providing modern loaded .38 S&W ammo and modern loaded .38/200 ammo. Here's the link specifically for the. 38/200 modern loaded ammo.

https://shop.reedsammo.com/380-200-200g-LRN-38SW200gLFP.htm

Here's a link to the modern loaded .38 S&W ammo.

https://shop.reedsammo.com/38-SW-146g-Lead-Round-Nose-38SWS146LRN.htm

Reed's is a great place to purchase less popular, obscure, and otherwise obsolete loaded ammo cartridges. They're my go-to for .38 Super Auto +P HP SD ammo, .338-06 hunting ammo, and 9.3X62mm hunting ammo. I plan to have Reed's load some 160+ grain hunting ammo in 7mm-08 & 7X64mm Brenneke for me after the pandemonium dies down some.
 
I'll be jiggered, sure enough the funky cross bolt safety was a Webley option. I would have expected a lever like the Webley Fosberry's.
I see that the Singapore police, like Shanghai, were under the influence of Col Fairbairn, who had ideas about handguns that would be thought strange now.
I purchased mine in the 80's, I don't recall any of the modifications discussed near the end of the gunboards thread link I posted in my prior post. It was a curiosity item, it went in some trade no doubt involving my real interest in P08 Lugers into the 1990's but the details of which trade it left my posession in are now lost in my memory. The nice thing is the guns I kept remain regardless of the condition of my memory related to each specific acquisition.
 
So, I have one of these cut down Enfield No. 2's, and from my research the vast majority of these you see were imported and modified by a company called Seaport Traders after they were sold out of service in the late 50's. They were about $17 as I recall from the scanned ad I saw.

index.php


I got mine for a little Iver $300 on gunbroker. It's had the finish sandblasted off most of it and I really need to get it refinished, but its a laser with a beautiful bore, and the action is like new.

Also worth noting that the front sight ramp on mine was cut off the original barrel end and reattached to the cut down barrel probably by soldering. It seems absolutely solid and whoever did it did very clean work.
 
Lots of these were modified by the importers to make them more saleable and this is certainly one of them, you can see the join where they have built up the rib to put a front sight on it. Looks like it was pinned in place (and maybe sweated too). The paint is so thick we can't see who the maker was, but it's a functional snubby piece,
 
I'll be jiggered, sure enough the funky cross bolt safety was a Webley option. I would have expected a lever like the Webley Fosberry's.
I see that the Singapore police, like Shanghai, were under the influence of Col Fairbairn, who had ideas about handguns that would be thought strange now.

And here's a current asking price on such a Webley.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/856959750

OP, unless the snub nose and DAO hammer are especially appealing to you, there are Webley Mk IV revolvers (without a frame mounted safety) with original barrels out there capable of SA or DA fire for not much higher asking prices.
 
And here's a current asking price on such a Webley.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/856959750

OP, unless the snub nose and DAO hammer are especially appealing to you, there are Webley Mk IV revolvers (without a frame mounted safety) with original barrels out there capable of SA or DA fire for not much higher asking prices.

Thats neat,amazing how quickly you can find rare items on the Internet off webs... Thanks for posting.. they also have those Webley-Fosberys

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/854960209

And they just sold an unshaved Webley that was going alot cheaper before the last hour of the auction..

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/859424304
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top