Opinions wanted on this 1903 Springfield

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I've had this reworked 1903 for many years. I bought it from the son of a previous owner decades back, and he had no idea where or when his dad acquired it.

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I'd like opinions as to whether it was a wartime arsenal refurb or a postwar commercial job.

The wartime scant stock appears completely devoid of markings. To this day, the oiled walnut stock looks nearly new, especially the inletting -- I don't believe any cartouches have been sanded off. There is a knot about 6" back from the front stock band, so possibly it was a second; there is no sign of warping and the knot doesn't appear to affect accuracy. The Springfield receiver is in the 918,000 range and is a different (blacker) color from the greenish 1942-dated barrel. I can't tell whether the action is very thinly Parkerized or just blued, but the barrel is obviously parked. I don't know if this is significant, but the Buffington sight lacks the usual scallops on the sides of the barrel mount.

Do you think it was spruced up and put into storage during the war, or is a postwar commercial or DCM rework more likely?

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I believe that's one of the rifles assembled by Remington in 1942, prior to the transition to the 03A3. If the receiver is marked "Springfield Armory" (rather than "Remington") it could be just a leftover receiver that was sent over to Remington for assembly.

The rear sight base without the scallops was a characteristic of Remington production. So too were stocks without cartouches. Look for a lightly-stamped "K" (for Keystone Manufacturing) in the cutoff recess in the stock.

I think you have an untouched example of 1942 production.
 
918*** should give you a 1918 gun with the better heat-treatment.
If it were DCM as presented, the stock would infect have the arsenal and acceptance stamps so may have been sanded or replaced. Look for the internal stock markings and perhaps that the muzzle end of the stock as well.
In any case, obviously and arsenal rebuild in '42 of a 1918 gun as I see it.
Todd.
 
The rear sight base without the scallops was a characteristic of Remington production. So too were stocks without cartouches. Look for a lightly-stamped "K" (for Keystone Manufacturing) in the cutoff recess in the stock.

I think you have an untouched example of 1942 production.

Hey, we're already getting somewhere! Never looked closely here -- there is an 'S' (or '8') stamped in the recess. I should also mention the lack of finger grooves on the forestock, in case this isn't clear in the photo.

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This is a WW2 rebuild

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These rifles have been through many hands. I can't tell you how long it took for me to find a type C stock. I spent decades looking for them. Installed this nice one, from a gun club bud who bought it back in the 1960's and had done nothing with it.

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In the interim, I installed scant grip stocks, they are longer, the comb is higher, and they beat up my lips less. I am of the opinion that is why the scant grip stock is on your rifle. Your rifle stock lacks the proof marks you would see after a rebuild. Keeping a rifle "correct" to a shooter is of less importance than having a nice shooting rifle.

If the wood was beat up, the last owner could have also purchased new upper hand guards. I think he also purchased all milled hard ware. I did that too. It is not uncommon to find rebuilds with mixes of A3 stock hardware and 03 stock hardware and 03 bolts and A3 bolts. During rebuilds, these parts were taken off, tossed in bins, refinished, and returned in bins. Assembler's did not care one whit (on average) for the correctness of anything. Even if they knew, which is unlikely. Don't worry about the sight base. That WW2 SA barrel is a good barrel.
 
Hey, we're already getting somewhere! Never looked closely here -- there is an 'S' (or '8') stamped in the recess. I should also mention the lack of finger grooves on the forestock, in case this isn't clear in the photo.

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The *S* makes me wonder if you don't have a *RIA* or another *S* stamp at the tip of the stock. Take a peek up there.

Remember that *scant stocks* were normally blanks just laying around from the past and being pressed to service - the knot might not have mattered to them. August '42... still dire days.

Todd.
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The *S* makes me wonder if you don't have a *RIA* or another *S* stamp at the tip of the stock. Take a peek up there.

Remember that *scant stocks* were normally blanks just laying around from the past and being pressed to service - the knot might not have mattered to them. August '42... still dire days.

Todd.
View attachment 904180

I took a good look there, then pulled the action out of the stock and checked everywhere else I could think of, including under the buttplate -- no more stampings found.

BTW, there was a pretty good explanation of the scant stock on TFB recently:



One seemingly odd thing about my 03: there is not the slightest sign of cosmoline to be found anywhere on the metal or wood. The lightening cutouts under the barrel are still slightly fluffy around the edges.

Keeping a rifle "correct" to a shooter is of less importance than having a nice shooting rifle. During rebuilds, these parts were taken off, tossed in bins, refinished, and returned in bins. Assembler's did not care one whit (on average) for the correctness of anything. Even if they knew, which is unlikely. Don't worry about the sight base. That WW2 SA barrel is a good barrel.

Agreed! An authorized refurb is more than correct enough for me, and even a commercial rebuild would be just fine. I've just an idle curiosity about it's most probable past history, based on what the gun itself has to tell.

So far, the consensus appears to be that it's a kosher wartime refurb.
 
An arsenal rebuild would have the initials of the arsenal stamped on the stock. The lack of such a stamp leads me to think that this is an original Remington assembly using leftover Springfield Armory parts.
 
Remington built new rifles. Remington did not rebuild rifles. Remington made a small batch of 03's before they made A3's.

This is an early Remington 03 receiver, barrel, bolt, and hardware. The stock is a Boyd.

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This is a Remington rebuild M1903A3

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notice the A3 in the model identification.

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significantly different rear sight

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Remington built new rifles. Remington did not rebuild rifles. Remington made a small batch of 03's before they made A3's.
That is correct. But in building the new rifles, Remington would have used up existing inventories of parts transferred over, along with the tooling, from the government armories (Springfield and Rock Island). That's how you could have a Remington-built rifle with a Springfield receiver and/or barrel. In any case, the rear sight base without the lightening scallops was exclusively a Remington production. That change was approved after production got underway at Remington.
 
I read somewhere that the double heat treated carbon steel receivers were stronger than the nickel ones. Can anyone confirm/deny this?
 
I have a 12-41 marked Remington 03 with a straight stock my dad bought out of a barrel for $25. Has crack in the wrist behind the tang so it doesn't get shot much.
 

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Another fairly basic 03 question: those small stock recesses at the front of the receiver ring. They appear to be for the A3 handguard rear ring, correct? So the scant stock was introduced at roughly the same time or after the A3 model change to the aperture rear sight?

index.php


I gotta buy Bruce Canfield's book, pronto!
 
I read somewhere that the double heat treated carbon steel receivers were stronger than the nickel ones. Can anyone confirm/deny this?

Nah. People read Hatcher's Notebook and get caught up in the rah-rah. General Hatcher was the quintessential company man. He must have been an incredible individual to rise to the top of Army Ordnance and lead the Department through WW2. That organization, like all organizations, is full of ambitious, amoral, machiavellian, individuals. He made it to the top, Hatcher must have been one heck of charismatic individual who knew how to get things done, inspire people, and build a group around him who protected him from the back stabbers. You can tell, he was a work a holic, all the while while he was doing his Army job, he is writing books and submitting articles. These public submissions kept him in the public eye.

He wrote Hatcher's Notebook after the war, after he retired, and was working his way to the top of the NRA. And he made that too. A couple years salary as Head of the Executive Board was probably as much, if not more, than his entire compensation in the Army. Hasn't Wayne La Pierre gotten $250,000 of suits, above his $985,000 a year salary? Its a job well worth keeping. At the time, perhaps the most important thing Hatcher could do, was keep on the positive side of his buddies still in the Army. From the time of its creation, up to 1968, the NRA actually thought of itself, and acted as a DoD agency. And I remember, from a 1963 American Rifleman, the amount of resources the NRA was receiving from DoD was equal to a third or a fourth of their budget. So, Hatcher wants to climb to the top of the NRA, and to do so, he must be greener than Army green.

So what you read in Hatcher's Notebook is an account of how the Army sees itself. Forward leaning, perfect, all knowing, the most incredible, best organization that ever existed and ever will exist. The bigger the organization, the more grandiose and self centered they are, and all they want to hear is how wonderful they are. Hatcher writes nothing that can be remotely construed as a criticism of the Army. He knows, ff he says anything negative, the Army will treat him as a pariah. So, in Hatcher's Notebook, the theme of the double heat treat receiver affair is of another fantastic Army triumph over adversity. Springfield Armory found the enemy, and they were those rascally forge shop workers!

Readers inevitably get caught up in the rah-rah. Almost everyone who reads the section on double heat treat receivers ends up believing that the plain carbon steels used in the things were the most advanced materials ever made, and the receivers were the strongest ever made, the most perfect creations that humanity has ever made, and ever will be made. Right? There is a cult of the double heat treat, and strangely, a cult of the single heat treat receivers.

The plain carbon steels used in the double heat treat receivers were the latest and greatest in 1890. Some can argue that WD1325 steel (Class C) was manganese steel, but at the time, they were called plain carbon steels. But even by 1915, steel technology had advanced so much, that the class C steels were, so to speak , long in the tooth. The nickle steel receivers were 3.5% nickle, and in every respect, except cost, superior to the plain carbon steels used in the single heat treat and double heat treat receivers. The class C steels were .2-.3 carbon, this table shows a comparison of 2340 with a .4 carbon.

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What is not shown is the number of cycles to failure, alloy steels have superior fatigue lifetime, more energy required to shear at low temperature, and most importantly, heat treat uniformly through the material thickness. Those double heat treat receivers required two heat treat stages, that is doubling the process time. Rock Island had gone over to nickle steel in 1917 or 1918, and Springfield Armory finally went over to nickle steel once their WW1 stocks of class C materials ended. And, they went back to a single heat treatment, if you notice.

It is likely without General Hatcher and his book, we would be pretty ignorant about anything to do with the single heat receivers as the Army did a great job of covering up what happened.

Double heat treat receivers have blown up, and many are brittle. I believe this is due to the fact that the huge stocks of WW1 materials acquired by SA were used throughout the production of double heat treat receivers. Steels made in that period are highly variable, reflecting the period wartime pressures and the lack of sophisticated process controls. It took till about 1927 for the SA WW1 steel stockpile to run out.

The nickle steels used by RIA and SA had 3.5 lbs of nickle per 100 pound billet, and by the time you get to 1940, that was way too much nickle. Alloy steels of that period were using about a half pound of nickle per 100 pound billet. Nickle was then, and now, an expensive, strategic material and it comes from abroad. Conserving natural resources was very important in WW2, anything that had to go by ship, sailed on an ocean filled with U Boats, Japanese I Boats, and sharks!

From Wiki:

Nickle

World production

More than 2.3 million tonnes (t) of nickel per year are mined worldwide, with Indonesia (560,000 t), The Philippines (340,000 t), Russia (210,000 t), New Caledonia (210,000 t), Australia (170,000 t) and Canada (160,000 t) being the largest producers as of 2019.[26] The largest deposits of nickel in non-Russian Europe are located in Finland and Greece. Identified land-based resources averaging 1% nickel or greater contain at least 130 million tonnes of nickel. Approximately 60% is in laterites and 40% is in sulfide deposits. In addition, extensive deep-sea resources of nickel are in manganese crusts and nodules covering large areas of the ocean floor, particularly in the Pacific Ocean.[53]

 
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Another fairly basic 03 question: those small stock recesses at the front of the receiver ring. They appear to be for the A3 handguard rear ring, correct? So the scant stock was introduced at roughly the same time or after the A3 model change to the aperture rear sight?

index.php


I gotta buy Bruce Canfield's book, pronto!

Yes, the scant grip stock was an WW2 attempt to salvage partially finished straight grip stocks. As such, they were cut to be used on the A3 and 03.
 
Nickle was then, and now, an expensive, strategic material and it comes from abroad. Conserving natural resources was very important in WW2, anything that had to go by ship, sailed on an ocean filled with U Boats, Japanese I Boats, and sharks!

Speaking of nickle shortages and submarines, during the second wartime voyage of WWI German cargo sub Deutschland to the USA (August 1916, while we were still officially neutral), the principal cargo they purchased was 341 tons of nickle. Some was simply in the form of US .05 coins.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_submarine_Deutschland
 
Speaking of nickle shortages and submarines, during the second wartime voyage of WWI German cargo sub Deutschland to the USA (August 1916, while we were still officially neutral), the principal cargo they purchased was 341 tons of nickle. Some was simply in the form of US .05 coins.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_submarine_Deutschland

When the Germans took over Belgium, they required each household to provide a list of household goods. Particularly metals, such as brass and copper pots, pans, and ornaments. At some time in the future, the security police consolidated all lists, came to your house and demanded you turn over basically anything metallic, and provided compensation in worthless wartime currency. Items not on the list were, of course, confiscated. If you could not account for items, things would not go well for you. There were all sorts of punishments, including forced labor in German factories. In time Germany absolutely stripped Belgium of anything, in one form or another, that could help the German war effort.

from Wiki

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