US. Krag

Steel Horse Rider said:

I just went out to my gun room and examined my Krag. Not only is the bolt locked into the back of the receiver and stock there is a small protrusion at the back of the bolt that locks into the rear arch of the receiver, I do not doubt that the steel used was inferior to more modern designs but as a Tool and Die Maker I naturally question statements that are unquestionably accepted as gospel truth. Has anyone here ever had a Krag bolt fail or blow up in there face?

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I was handed a Krag bolt at the gun range that had a crack through its lug. Post WW1, there were a lot of Krag's being used, now they are collector items. I found warnings in a 1960's American Rifleman about Krag "flame hardened" bolts. People expect everything to be on the web. There is about 300,000 years of human history that occurred before the internet, and not all of it was written down, and few of that is on the internet.

And when it comes to gun blowups or accidents, is there a legal requirement to report, and a publicly searchable data base? Lots of gun accidents don't get reported and I believe it is due to all the harassment you get after accidents from the people who believe in the "Just World" theory. That is, we live in a Just World. Good things happen to good people, good people are blessed. Sun shine and happiness is theirs, because of their virtue !!! But, bad things happen to bad people, The Just World corrects those who are evil. Therefore, if something bad happens to you, it is because you deserved it.

I recently ran into a Vietnam helicopter pilot who held this view. He stated there was always one guy in the squadron who would come back from a mission with his helicopter shot up. He truly believed that there was a pattern, he was not cherry picking events, or ignoring when others had bad luck. No, it was that certain helicopter pilots were more than unlucky, they were fated to be unluckily. There was just something about them that made their helicopter a target when all others came out unscathed. Irrational attitudes like this are common, and who wants to deal with the negative attitudes of people like this?

boom boom said:

Be really careful about removing the rear handguard to dismount the action. You have to lift the rear sight to full mast, gently pry the front and rear prongs off the barrel of the rear sight, and then maneuver the handguard's opening around the raised rear sight to remove it. These handguards are thin, brittle, and can break easily and there is no replacements outside of paying $100 for a replica and then having the match the finish.

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The way to do it is to remove the rear sight (it's held on with two screws) and then just slide the handguard forward off the barrel. The clips will clear the barrel at its forward diameter. (You have to take the barreled action out of the stock to do this.) If you do it the way you suggest, the clips will scratch the barrel.

Steel Horse Rider said:

I am at a complete loss to understand these criticisms as the bolt handle also locks into a notch so I cannot understand how the bolt could move rearward without doing severe damage to both the stock and the rear tang.

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There's the front locking lug, the rear lug (the bolt rib),and then the bolt handle. The latter two are safety features. They don't come into play unless the front lug fails.

TheFlynn01 said:

Huh looking over my stock. I have no band spring... is that normal? It’s just a metal pin. There isn’t even a hole where a spring would go.

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That's right. Krags have no band spring. The transverse pin acts as a stop for the band. That same system is used in the M1917 Enfield.

Slamfire said:

I recently ran into a Vietnam helicopter pilot who held this view. He stated there was always one guy in the squadron who would come back from a mission with his helicopter shot up. He truly believed that there was a pattern, he was not cherry picking events, or ignoring when others had bad luck. No, it was that certain helicopter pilots were more than unlucky, they were fated to be unluckily. There was just something about them that made their helicopter a target when all others came out unscathed. Irrational attitudes like this are common, and who wants to deal with the negative attitudes of people like this?

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There are "lucky" people and "unlucky" people. I have known both. And there is nothing that can explain just why it happens.

As to the Krag...if you don't reload now look into it, if you want to get into these "odd duck" guns that shoot "not wallyworld" ammo you need to look into reloading. And yes like everyone else has said load them on the soft side. I generally suggest this on all old girls.

TheFlynn01 said:

View attachment 906143 View attachment 906145 View attachment 906136 View attachment 906137 So I cleaned up the stock with more lacquer thinner and found two cracks

View attachment 906136 View attachment 906137

actually looking at it in better light I found another one (two?) that wraps around the butt.

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Those are usual places for cracks in a Krag stock. Probably due to shrinkage from dry wood. Make sure you treat the interior of the stock to repeated dosings of linseed oil (or alternatively tung oil, birch oil, etc.) as lacquer thinner, acetone, etc. are all hard on wood. Given the boring of the butt of the rifle for oil and cleaning kits, this area also can develop cracks so make sure to get linseed oil into this area as well.

The fine points of linseed oil is that true linseed oil aka flax oil is very, very, slow to dry and stays in a sticky mess for awhile. For that reason, most people use BLO, boiled linseed oil, which has a solvent that causes the linseed oil to dry. The most common type found in stores has a variety of industrial chemicals as drying agents not exactly safe for humans so make sure to use disposable gloves or rags, use it in a well ventilated area,, etc. This is the MSDS for Kleen Strip Boiled Linseed Oil, "Linseed oil, cobalt manganese salt {Linseed oil,
manganese and cobalt driers}". The Linseed oil by itself can be eaten and is found in health supplement stores as flax oil. The cobalt and probably manganese, not so much. It's easy to use and my favorite formulation of the stuff is Linspeed which is carried by Brownells. A little goes a long way.

The third alternative is something called polymerized linseed oil which more or less naturally speed up the drying of raw linseed oil by special heat treatment (this is actually the old boiled linseed oil). https://vermontwoodsstudios.com/blog/raw-vs-boiled-vs-polymerized-linseed-oil/ This stuff is thicker than linseed oil and works best with wood at summer type temperatures.

Here is an example of the natural polymerized linseed oil, https://www.amazon.com/Plaza-Linsee...uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

General safety tips on linseed.
https://thecraftsmanblog.com/how-to-use-boiled-linseed-oil-safely/

Tung oil is an alternative and other people are more knowledgeable than I am on that.

TheFlynn01

Your bolt looks much cleaner than mine. I think someone blued mine as it is covered in all these little smooth dark spots that look like worn off bluing. From what I have read they were supposed to be polished.

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That was my understanding as well, that the bolt was polished and left in the white. I also believe the receiver, side plate, and magazine housing were originally case hardened. When I had my Krag refinished I had them do a rust blue on all of the metal parts and left the bolt in the white.

TheFlynn01 said:

View attachment 906143 View attachment 906145 View attachment 906136 View attachment 906137 So I cleaned up the stock with more lacquer thinner and found two cracks

View attachment 906136 View attachment 906137

actually looking at it in better light I found another one (two?) that wraps around the butt.

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Those cracks are very easy to repair. If you follow the steps of the repairs I made on the stock in the link I posted, your repairs will not show.
Now for the chips at the butt, the can be repaired or left as is.

I have always liked the Krag. I have two. Sorry the picture is kind of dark since it was taken in the basement. One I got many years ago, the cut off stock one. It had a bad barrel. Looked like a sewer pipe even after cleaning. I put a replacement barrel that was just like the one taken off (1903 front sight) minus the sewer pipe bore. The other I got on a whim a couple months ago. Went in to pick up my new FNH SLP Shotgun and there it was, sitting so lonely on the rack. Without a single like rifle to befriend. So it followed me home. It is complete and as far as I can tell unaltered.

TheFlynn01 said:

I will use BLO for sure, I like the way it looks and I was to save the stock!



beautiful looking rifle! I will aspire to that for sure.



I did find your post and looking over it, now before I can do anything I need to get all the oil out. Is there a fast and safe way to do that? Also, should I fix it and then add the BLO or add that first?

Thanks for all the info guys!

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Here’s something you must remember when working on stocks. Shortcuts show up in the end.
The oil in the stock took many years to soak in so, it will take time to get it out. Also you don’t want the stock bone dry. You want it to the point that it doesn’t leech oil when it gets a little warm.
Also when you clean the stock, you will only be able to remove the oil from the surface and some from just below the surface.
After a cleaning just let it sit for a few days. You will see color come back to the stock as the oil comes to the surface. Heat will help but don’t over do it.
The repairs need to be done before you start to apply BLO.

TheFlynn01 said:

Thank you for all the info! I ordered the book right now. I got her apart and cleaning the stock. I heard that wax is good to put on after the boiled linseed oil, to keep the gun oil from going back in? And the reloading info is awesome. I am super excited to get into and fix it up. I would like to restore it if I can, rust blue it to keep it from getting any further along.




thank you! I will read up on this and the the stock fixed. I am also going to clean it up more with lacquer thinner. When I did I can the guns markings showing up! It’s amazing to clean it and see those hidden pieces of history!

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Nice rifle. I have one just about like it and it’s one of my favorite rifles to shoot and admire.

Please, please don’t be tempted to refinish that beauty. She has a lovely patina she’s earned from 120+ years. By all means, gently clean the wood, make the necessary stock repairs to make the gun a shooter again, learn about reloading, and enjoy your fantastic piece of American history ... but, they’re only original once. Don’t make the mistake of many new shooters of old guns and try to fix or improve every little thing. There are a lot of milsurps out there that have been subjected to this, and some look great, but most don’t. And all are worth less than if they’d been left more or less alone. Btw, even from new, the metal finish on the receiver, especially, was “mottled” and somewhat thin-looking, according to old accounts, due to the blueing and heat-treatment process used. Yours looks really good. Having handled a number of Krags, both those that have been left alone and those that have been “fully restored,” the difference in beauty can be stark.

Congratulations!

I have a bit of a Krag/30-40 issue. As in I have several and want more.

My favorite actual Krag is an early sixties sporter. I shoot it in a pre-1898 US rifle design competition and accuracy is only held back by the operator. I shoot nothing but cast - Lyman 311284 at @ 1800 fps - in that rifle. Smooth bolt, lovely looking.

Enjoy!

Didn't the NRA sell bunches of Sporters at some point using the 1903 front sight on a shortened barrel?

I at one time put a Bushnell Banner 2.5X post reticule scope on my Krag. I reload for it it but also have factory ammo. It did good with the scope but I never liked the side mount. Took it off.

dh1633pm said:

Didn't the NRA sell bunches of Sporters at some point using the 1903 front sight on a shortened barrel?

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Yes, when they ran out of carbines, Benecia Arsenal cut down rifles for surplus sale to NRA members who would rather have a 22" half stock to hunt with than a 30" with bayonet lug.

TheFlynn01 said:

so I need to clean it but not dry it out. Without trying to sound like a idiot. How do I go about that safely? What’s a good way to tell that it is ready for repairs or for BLO?

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When you clean it, it will get a dry look to the surface. Allow it to dry in a cool place. Once it is dry set it out in the sun. The heat will pull the oil back to the surface, giving color back to it. It this happens within an hour or two, with some wet spots, then it still has a lot of oil in it.
It will also depend on what you are using to clean the stock with.

Back when I was young and dumb I ran across a dozen of those. Won’t go into detail but I shortened 4 of them to carbine length. The barrels were horrible. They had been used by the Legion for honor guards for years, corrosive primers, never cleaned and then stored, rather forgotten about down in the dark damp basement of the old Legion hall. I soaked the wood in hot soapy water several times until some grain started showing up again. Dried them out for several weeks and then went the boiled linseed oil route. It never would dry so I put several coats of Lin-Speed oil on them. Even with the terrible barrel I could keep ten shots in the black of a 50’ timed and rapid fire pistol target set at 100 yd with the original sights off a bench and bags. I could still see back then. My chamber had a bit of headspace issues so I loaded all my ammo to seat on the shoulder. One day I got a 308 stainless match barrel that had had the gilded edge worn off. $10 got it and the reamer for the weekend. I replaced the barrel, fixed the headspace and it still shoots far better than my 72 year old eyes can see. It’s a conversation starter at the range but shooting prone with that straight grip stock kills my wrist. You’ll never see craftsmanship, fit and finish like that in any military rifle again. Mine isn’t worth spit after what I’ve done to it, no big deal, it’s not for sale anyway!

TheFlynn01 said:

Okay that’s good to know. Thank you. I cleaned it with Murphy’s oil soap to get whatever I could off, then I used lacquer thinner for the really black spots. It seems a bit lighter. I will put it in the sun tomorrow!

with the repairs, what size drill bits should I use, how close to the surface and the crack does the hole for the dowel need to be?

thank you again!

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When drilling into a crack, I try to drill into the center.


For size I like to go as large as I can. Harbor Fright has a set of 25” bits that are great for working on stocks.

troy fairweather said:

Before and after shooting it check the bolt lug, they have been known to crack. Don't load it hot, there not the strongest action. But there a fine rifle very smooth and has one of the coolest magazines. Have fun with it.

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Here's a tip. Heat your oven to about 300 degrees and soak the bolt head in penetrating oil. Dry the bolt and put it in the oven for a few minutes. If there is a crack, you will see the penetrating oil seeping out.