30-30 sizing confusion

mrawesome22-250 said:

This gun sounds like a good candidate for neck sizing only until all the brass is actually fire formed to me.

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I think so, but when full length sized it gets the shoulder closer to where it needs to be by about .020".

mrawesome22-250 said:

I vagely recall guys using small charges of red dot and cream of wheat to fire form cases, pointing the gun straight into the air, so the case head is directly on the bolt face, and firing.

May want to google "red dot fire forming" and see what you can dig up.

I could totally be remembering it wrong but I think it was a very fast burning powder and some kind of filler.

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I'm probably not going to do that, I'm typically shooting at a range- rarely get out to open land, you've got to know a farmer around here to shoot anything but paper ---yeah, it sucks--

I wouldn't have thought that the chamber of this rifle is that long, I've certainly learned something today. I'm going to tinker around with it some more tonight and see what I can figure. It seems like I should just expect short brass life in this gun and neck size only until I possibly eventually get the shoulder to touch the chamber. If I never get there, I'm ok with that as long as I know I'm fighting an uphill battle from the start. This has always been a good shooting rifle but I never bothered much on loading for it because I don't shoot it but a couple times a year and I've got several hundred factory rounds sitting around for it. But the brass is piling up and I'm bored on this quarantine stuff so it's a good time to learn. I've been sitting on the powder, brass, bullets and dies about a year but always find something else I'd rather load than start trying to do it right. The previous rounds I assembled and fired also chamber without resizing so I don't have great confidence that I'll eventually make it to full length but I guess I'll find out. I will say, it's fun to step out of your comfort zone and do something different, I feel like if I'm going to do something I may as well do it as well as possible. That's why I got thrown off by the growing brass when all I wanted was to push the shoulder a couple thousandths . never occurred to me that my chamber could be extra long. Don't laugh when I say that 30-30 is my modern long distance rifle. Yeah, I have an AR but that thing only sees daylight when it needs it's action worked to make sure it hasn't stopped working since the year before (I usually do 10 mags in the winter & 10 in the summer- confirm zero and check function) . my most fired rifle is a 45-70 and as you all know, reloading that case doesn't take much figuring .

Anyway, I appreciate the knowledge I get from the experts here and will update this post with my findings.

Ok. I did like was recommended and just neck sized, there was some die contact about 1/4 in front of the head but no lengthening of the case this time though, that brass falls in and out of the chamber of my rifle with just gravity. I'll add a couple pictures. I think I'll just run that die setting and make my 30 rounds (6 groups of 5 each) . look about right?

garandsrus said:

You guys are reading the caliper wrong. The case is .002, which is 2 thousandths, longer after being sized than it was before, which is pretty insignificant and probably the result of squeezing the case body and dragging the expander ball out of the case neck. The fourth digit after the decimal is 1/10,000 and will either read 0 or 5 which is 1/2 a ‘tenth’ which is completely insignificant when case forming.

Turn the sizing die in 1/4 turn and re-measure. Keep turning it in until you get to -0.0030 which is 3 thousandths less than the fired case dimension.

Unless you are using a very light load, the 30-30 case is fire forming to your chamber. Take a look at this which shows the case forming taking place when converting 30-30 to 7-30 Waters. The pressure is not much different than 30-30. It is really cool to see the difference in case shape before and after pulling the trigger.
https://www.clarionledger.com/story/outdoorsreport/2014/11/10/7-30-waters-not-dead/18792283/

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Yes. Geez, minor details make a difference. I really should have caught that , I have taken courses in metrology and know how to measure but sometimes I guess we get besides ourself. Good catch , thank you .

mrawesome22-250 said:

Yeah just keep turning die in until that wonky display reads -O.Oo2o lol.

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That still wouldn't make a difference because that one was full length sized, shell holder in contact with the die.
I made up a ladder of rounds today in .5 grain increments , once the world starts turning again I'll get them tested. Just neck sized and I did plunk them with no trouble. Also loaded the magazine and cycled a few tbrough, no trouble.
On a side note, I like the leverevolition powder, looks like my old friend h110 and meters really well. Previous loading was with imr4198 before which meters not so well for me. I'll still use it for 45-70 because I have a good load worked out with it and I have 3# of the stuff.

And yes, the display is troublesome . I'll be bringing a proper caliper home from work.

garandsrus said:

If your die is bottoming out on your shell holder and you aren’t sizing enough, you need to reduce the height of the shell holder or reduce the length of the die so that you can screw the die in farther. There is also probably some play when the press cams over so you probably do have a little more adjustment with your current setup. If you have a different brand of shell holder, give that a try also. They will all be a little different. It’s easier to turn/sand .010 off the shell holder than it is to shorten the die. The die is hardened. Also cheaper to replace the shell holder, if necessary!

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It doesn't seem to be necessary, even an unsizrd case easily chambers, just by neck sizing the empty will drop freely in and out of the chamber. So I do believe the shoulder isn't meeting the chamber yet, I'll see after the second firing. Would there be any need to move the shoulder back if it isn't contacting the chamber ? I wouldn't think so but I am a bottleneck newbie. I do appreciate the extra effort in looking over this post even though I thought I had it mostly figured out. .002" is certainly believable , .020" not so much, that really what had me more confused than anything, that would be quite a significant stretch.