Why were cavalry SAAs longer than others?

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Let me add a history lesson. Colt developed the revolver and manufactured them in Patterson, NJ. The early Colts were not as good as later models, and Colt went bankrupt. A quantity of these early "Patterson" Colts were purchased by the Texas Navy. Texas couldn't afford a navy, so the navy was disbanded and the Colts issued to the Texas Rangers.

The Rangers were having a hard time with the Comanche, who fought mounted. If you dismounted to fight, the Comanche would ride off to attack somewhere else. To fight them, the Rangers had to fight mounted -- with single shot muzzle loaders. The Comanche, on the other hand, would hold a bow and a half-dozen arrows in the left hand, and shoot them one after the other as they charged. So the Texas Rangers carried more guns. and still more guns.

When the 5-shot Patterson Colts were issued, Captain John Coffee Hays had a brilliant insight -- "This isn't a gun! This is FIVE guns, and you can hold all five in one hand. Please, Sir, can I have another?" Rangers with two 5-shot Patterson Colts started whipping the Comanche regularly.

Texas was admitted to the Union in December, 1845, and that meant we were going to have a war with Mexico, so the "Army of Anticipation" was sent to patrol the Rio Grande. The Texas Rangers were taken into the US Army as state troops -- and the Army was glad to get them. The Rangers demanded revolvers, so Captain Samuel Walker was sent east to negotiate with Samuel Colt. Together, they designed a revolver for the Texas Rangers.

Did I mention Walker was a Texan? The "Walker Colt" was ginormous! SIX shots, .45 caliber (although called .44), 9-inch barrel, and huge chambers. The "Walker Colt" was the most powerful production revolver until the .44 Magnum came along about 110 years later. And each Ranger was issued TWO!

The US Army took note, and from then on, our cavalry fought with pistols, and the saber fell out of use. But over time, the revolvers shrank -- the "Walker Colt" was too much of a good thing.

So when you question why the SAA was such a big gun, with such a long barrel, measure it against the "Walker Colt."

FYI- It's Colt Paterson, and was made in Paterson, NJ.

When Ranger's dismounted to fight, especially when alone, as was often the case, the Indian(s), after the Ranger had fired his rifle would rush in while the Ranger reloaded. I read the account of the first time the indians faced a single Ranger that was armed with a revolver, and their subsequent surprise, but cannot recall the exact details.

Why a 7 1/2" barrel? Handgun barrels were just long back then!

35W
 
Still can't find anything that says the 7.5" barrel was at the request of the Board of Ordnance or was just something mutually agreed upon with the Board and Colt. Or did Colt decide the length for themselves and figured the Board would go along with this and adopt it as is. There's also the matter of the S&W Model 3 Schofield being made for the U.S. Army with a 7" barrel. If the Army specifications called for a 7.5" barrel why didn't S&W build it that way? Just seems kind of strange the way they went about this contract.
 
In the US Army from the ACW on the important weapon in the cavalry to the individual trooper was the Carbine. Union Calvary with one of the myriad single shot breech loading carbines of the time could move quickly about a battle area, dismount and shoot just well out to 150 yards as Infantry with long rifles and once the enemy got close enough that a charge was a threat remount and ride away. Despite all the capabilities of the various Minie Ball rifles the vast majority of their use was inside 150 yards, so until closing to bayonet range a carbine was at no disadvantage

Got hellishly worse for the Southerners when the Spencer eight shot sort of lever action began to be issued. Especially with Blakeshee Quick loads for rapid reloads.

Up until the Spencers were taken away and replaced by Trapdoor Springfields, Custer's men fired more Carbine ammunition in training than Handgun ammunition. For some reason (advancing syphilis?) Custer had his men do little marksmanship training with either firearm after the change, a big change from the highest per trooper ammunition expenditure in the Army before. Perhaps a bigger factor in the loss at Greasy Grass than splitting the command and not listening to his scouts.

The '03 Springfield when it came along was made shorter than the Krag rifle to accomidate Cav troopers and again more ammo was aloted to rifles than pistols in training.

-kBob
 
I once saw a picture of a Colt Navy prototype on the SAA action, I think belonging to Mel Torme.
It was .38 Long Colt with 6 1/2" barrel. Apparently the Navy didn't care.
 
Got hellishly worse for the Southerners when the Spencer eight shot sort of lever action began to be issued. Especially with Blakeshee Quick loads for rapid reloads.

-kBob

Are there any actual accounts of Civil War battles where the Blakeshee Quick Load box was used in???
 
Paterson (pay-tuhr-sohn), not Patterson (pat-tuhr-sohn).

Excuse me, I grew up in New Jersey, not far from Paterson. Yes, there is only one T. Paterson was the cradle of the Industrial Revolution in America, water power from the 77 foot drop at the Great Falls on the Passaic River was harnessed to power industry as early as 1791. Colt's Patent Firearms Company built the Paterson Colts until he went broke in 1842.

It is pronounced pat-tuhr-sohn. At least it was when I grew up there in the 1950s and 1960s. The pronunciation and the spelling have not changed since. The pronunciation is probably why the error of putting two Ts in the name happens so often, but I assure you there is only one T and it is pronounced pat-tuhr-sohn.
 
The U.S. Has virtually no tradition of cavalry in the manner of European cavalry. Firearms were in existence by the time any U.S. cavalry came into being and, given the great distances of the US, cavalry were much more often used in a dragoon, or mounted rifleman capacity.

We recently had a discussion elsewhere on the forum about the Colt Walker and why it was so immense. And the reason is because it was a horse pistol, a cavalry carbine repeater at a time when there were no repeating rifles. The Walker with its outrageous 60 grains charge out made for a highly mobile fighting force that could credibly engage at rifle distances with a repeater. As it evolved through follow on generations , it was reduced in size and charge, but still a very powerful arm.

With the Civil War, the dragoon formed the backbone of both sides cavalry. There were no Hussars, Lancers, Curaisers as in contemporary European cavalry. Union and Confederate cavalry were armed with both pistol and carbine, as well as the sword and many mounted units were expected to fight dismounted. Doctrine had forces engage other mounted units at range with pistol and close for engagement and pursuit with the sword. The sword was also the main tool in pursuit of broken infantry.

Given the extremely important role and heavy emphasis on pistol engagement, the longer barrel and higher velocities it delivered were critical to cavalry doctrine. And as has been noted above, the 45 Colt was expected to disable horses as well as riders, so velocity remained very important and, whereas the pistol may have been worn on the belt, as opposed to a pommel bucket or holster, the horse was carrying the weight.


In any event, as far as I know, all Colt SAAs purchased by the Army had 7.5" barrels. Only later did what are now called Sheriffs Models, whether accurately or not, I do not know, 5.5" barrels become available to the non-military market. In the Infantry, enlisted men were not issued a side arm, officers generally provided their own, so non-coms issued a sidearm will have had the 7.5" barrel models.
 
Just for fun was looking at the base Paterson revolver it had a 7.5" barrel... Then the Walker comes out it had a 9" barrel and when the 1st dragoon comes out we are back to 7.5" again.

Of course there are specialty barrel sizes in that mix.
 
Vern, when did Colts start offering the 1873 to civilian sales? I believe the Gov’t controlled it or forbade civilian sales at first.

Kevin
The first civilian sales of about 500 guns were in late 1873. The gun was so popular that soldiers would steal or "lose" them and sell them to civilians -- it only made sense to allow civilians to buy them directly from Colt.
 
Blue Book is all I have, says 5.5" came out in 1875 for "export." No mention of when the 4.75" "civilian" came out. The first factory "Sheriff's (Storekeeper's) Model" was sold in 1882.
 
I always figured that since the cavalry were armed with single-shot carbines, they would probably need their revolvers in many situations, and often at distances where the longer barrel would be useful.

On the other hand, my figuring was that if the infantry officer or artilleryman needed his revolver, it might be more likely at self-defense distances, and thus the short barrel would be handier.

That is just me trying to make things more logical than they probably were.
 
Jim is correct. That "export" was to the Colt London office and they wee 5.5" barreled SAAs chambered in 450 Boxer.

The 4.75" barrel was introduced to the civilian market about 1878, about the time the SAA was also first chambered for the 44 WCF (today known as the 44-40). The so called Sheriff's or Storekeeper Models were not called that by Colt. They were designated "ejectorless models" and were available in various barrel lengths.

Dave

PS: The so called 5.5" Artillery Model was first issued to band members, not the artillery. (smile)
 
On the other hand, my figuring was that if the infantry officer or artilleryman needed his revolver, it might be more likely at self-defense distances, and thus the short barrel would be handier.
Except that all branches were issued the 7 1/2" model. The 5 1/2" barrel was the result of re-issue of the SAA during the Philippines campaigns, and was not intended for any particular branch. Just like everybody got the 7 1/2" barrel the first time around, on the re-issue, everybody got the 5 1/2" model.
 
Howdy Again

I have been browsing through my copy of Kopec some more. I emphasize the word browsing because it is 600 pages from cover to cover and has oodles of photos, illustrations, charts, and everything else you can image. This really is the 'bible' regarding the Colt Single Action Army in one book and I have not sat down to read every page.

Anyway, as best I can determine the first revolvers sent by Colt to the Springfield Armory for testing were sent on November 11 or 12, 1872. The first one received was chambered for the 44 Smith and Wesson Russian cartridge. However the government wanted to test the new revolver and compare its performance to the S&W American model Top Break revolvers already in the hands of troopers. But the American Model was chambered for the 44 Smith and Wesson American cartridge. Unlike the Russian cartridge and most other cartridges today, the 44 S&W American cartridge utilized an outside lubricated heeled bullet. Just like a modern 22 Rimfire, the outside diameter of the bullet was the same as the diameter of the cartridge case. At the rear of the bullet was a smaller diameter 'heel' that was inserted into the cartridge case and crimped in place.

In this photo of old cartridges they are, left to right, 44-40, 44 Henry Rimfire Flat, 44 S&W American, 44 S&W Russian, 44 Colt, 44 Special, and 45 Colt. (actually the 44 Special is one of my reloads, the others are all old cartridges. I threw the 44 Sp into the photo so its size could be compared to the others.) As a side note, since all of these cartridges, with the exception of the 44 Sp, were loaded with Black Powder, and Black Powder cartridges were usually completely filled with powder, the relative sizes of the brass is a good indicator of the relative power of each of these cartridges. 44-40 and 45 Colt are the power houses in this photo, it is generally accepted that they held 40 grains of powder. The Henry, 44 American and 44 Russian rounds held considerably less powder. In this photo the 44 Henry, 44 American and 44 Colt cartridges used heeled bullets. The rest used conventional 'modern' style bullets that have the same outside diameter as the inside of the case.

pooItfLhj.jpg




Anyway, the first test pistol received from Colt was chambered for 44 Russian, but for a fair comparison to the S&W revolvers already in service, another one was sent by Colt chambered for the 'service cartridge' (a direct quote), or 44 S&W American cartridge. A total of six revolvers were eventually sent to the Armory for testing. Colt had been working on the "Strap Pistol", as they called it, differentiating it from the earlier open top Cap & Ball and cartridge conversion Colts, all through 1872. As with any new product back then or today, minor changes in the design happened during the time it was under development. These variations included "several different frame configurations, trigger guard shapes, grip styles, and other physical characteristics." A total of six revolvers were furnished to the Ordnance Department for testing.

On May 20, 1873 Major S.V. Benét at the direction of the Chief of Ordnance wrote the first letter to Colt inquiring about a government contract:

"I am instructed by the Chief of Ordnance to ask you to state at what price you will furnish this Department with from 8,000 to 10,000 Colt's revolvers using metallic cartridges Cal..45, the arms are to be similar to the one sent here a few days ago by Col. Benton. You will please state how soon they can be furnished."

Benét sent another letter dated May 23, 1873, this time to the commanding officer of the Springfield Armory:

"It being the desire of the Department to procure for the Cavalry service about 8,000 Colt's revolvers to use metallic ammunition, I am directed by the chief of Ordnance to instruct you to procure from Colt's Patent Fire Arms Company a pistol of their latest model, of a caliber of .45 inches, similar to the one recently reported on by you. When the Company shall have prepared a model, satisfactory to you, you will be pleased to submit it to this office, that it may, if thought proper, be adopted as a standard upon which to contract for the number required."

I have quoted the letters directly from Kopec, but the italics are mine. You gotta love the flowery 19th Century writing style. The point is, the models delivered for testing had 7 1/2" barrels. Benét is saying the test models, with their 7 1/2" barrels, will be adopted as a standard upon which to contract for the number required.

There you have it, that's why the Cavalry Colts had 7 1/2" barrels.

It is interesting to note that as the contract was going through its signature cycle, the actual dimensions and twist rate of the rifling and the dimensions of the rear sight had not been completely ironed down.




Regarding civilian sales, like S&W, Colt never wasted anything. Remember, the inspections were being carried out at the Colt plant by government inspectors. The dimensions the government inspectors used for their inspections of parts were very strict. For instance a frame might be perfectly serviceable, but minor defects in casting, or polishing, or other factors may have caused it to be rejected by the inspectors. Rejected parts went into a special locker "for further inspection, and to prevent their accidental (or intentional) use in future government inspection". Kopec goes on to state that "most, if not all, workmanship-condemned, government intended parts were used in the assembly of civilian revolvers." Such defects might include easily correctable defects such as poor filing or polishing. Kopec reports seeing several frames that had been "factory nickel plated to cover minor flaws in their original workmanship."

Kopec states that government contracts had a high priority at Colt, but civilian production took place when a particular government contract had been completed, or before the next government production run had begun. Bear in mind, there was not just one government contract for Colt revolvers, there were thirteen, the last one signed on September 19, 1890. So there were plenty of opportunities over the years for Colt to build civilian revolvers during the down time between government contracts.
 
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Except that all branches were issued the 7 1/2" model. The 5 1/2" barrel was the result of re-issue of the SAA during the Philippines campaigns, and was not intended for any particular branch. Just like everybody got the 7 1/2" barrel the first time around, on the re-issue, everybody got the 5 1/2" model.

Thank you for properly informing me. :)
 
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