C&R/FFL type 3 and Pistol Sales

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daniel craig

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Hi all, so maybe this is the wrong forum I hand utlet aveme know if it is:

I have a potential buyer of a pistol who would like me to ship to his house in a different state. He's under the impression his C&R let's him do that, I was under the impression that a C&R only applies to long guns and NOT handguns. Even if it does apply to pistols would I be a jerk for wanting only to ship to an FFL?

If it helps, I can't find a way to prove the pistols age either.
 
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A C&R license holder can buy C&R guns from any source. Pistols can be C&R as well as long guns. The easiest way to establish C&R status for a gun is prove it was made at least 50 years prior to the current date. Serial number records are available for most guns.

That's federal law. You also need to be aware of state law requirements in the state where the buyer is located.
 
AlexanderA said:
A C&R license holder can buy C&R guns from any source. Pistols can be C&R as well as long guns. The easiest way to establish C&R status for a gun is prove it was made at least 50 years prior to the current date. Serial number records are available for most guns.

That's federal law. You also need to be aware of state law requirements in the state where the buyer is located.
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Right, good point. Many times states can have stricter laws than the feds.

So, if the gun has many serial numbers and the one that’s on it seems to be put on by the importer (probably because it was a parts kit) would you suggest I contact the importer?
 
What is the handgun in question? We can most likely help you out as to whether it is or isn't from that. As others have said handguns can be C&R. The 50 year time frame is a good marker to go by.
 
If the handgun has a serial number on the frame itself that’s the one you want. The number applied by the importer may or may not reflect the actual serial number.

Hang on. A handgun built on a parts kit? Agreed w above-need to know what this handgun is. Pics, please?
 
Rockrivr1 said:
What is the handgun in question? We can most likely help you out as to whether it is or isn't from that. As others have said handguns can be C&R. The 50 year time frame is a good marker to go by.
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It’s a Yugo m57 made by Zastava and imported by PW arms of Redmond Washington
 
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Sovblocgunfan said:
If the handgun has a serial number on the frame itself that’s the one you want. The number applied by the importer may or may not reflect the actual serial number.

Hang on. A handgun built on a parts kit? Agreed w above-need to know what this handgun is. Pics, please?
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The 50 year threshold is one of multiple criteria that applies to any firearm, but isn't specifically required. C&R can also pertain to limited edition, collector series, etc (think commemorative Winchester 94s)...even as new as last week.
 
  1. First you will need to be able to establish absolutely that the particular pistol being transferred is C&R. This ATF article might help.

  2. If you want to try to establish C&R status based on age you will need a credible source for serial number information which would allow you to accurately determine the year in which the pistol was manufactured.

  3. You also need to be sure that the transferee's State or residence doesn't impose additional restrictions. A number of States do, and it would violate the laws of those States to ship a handgun directly to an individual transferee, even if the gun is C&R and the transferee has an 03 FFL.

  4. Note that a transfer which violates federal law exposes you to up to five years in federal prison (with the bonus of a lifetime loss of gun rights).
 
Frank Ettin said:
  1. First you will need to be able to establish absolutely that the particular pistol being transferred is C&R. This ATF article might help.

  2. If you want to try to establish C&R status based on age you will need a credible source for serial number information which would allow you to accurately determine the year in which the pistol was manufactured.

  3. You also need to be sure that the transferee's State or residence doesn't impose additional restrictions. A number of States do, and it would violate the laws of those States to ship a handgun directly to an individual transferee, even if the gun is C&R and the transferee has an 03 FFL.

  4. Note that a transfer which violates federal law exposes you to up to five years in federal prison (with the bonus of a lifetime loss of gun rights).
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Sounds like it’s better I just tell the buyer FFL or nothing
 
Yes, I would go FFL 01 for this one. Too many variables and too hard to determine year of manufacture.

BTW your pistol isn’t built from a parts kit. It was imported as a whole gun. Your serial number will be taken from the frame, as that is what is defined as the firearm by ATF. I think it is 125944. The number On the frame above the right side grip. What is it?
 
Sovblocgunfan said:
Yes, I would go FFL 01 for this one. Too many variables and too hard to determine year of manufacture.

BTW your pistol isn’t built from a parts kit. It was imported as a whole gun. Your serial number will be taken from the frame, as that is what is defined as the firearm by ATF. I think it is 125944. The number On the frame above the right side grip. What is it?
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It looks like a part number. That’s what made me think it was a parts kit. The slide has one, the grip has one, the trigger has one.
 
An M57 in 7.62x25, the original caliber, is C&R. Not sure about the 9mm versions. If the buyer is an 03 FFL, and his state allows it, you can send directly to him. However, to be on the safe and cheap shipping side, you might want to have your local FFL send it.
 
As others have said, yes pistols can be C&R eligible. In fact, anything over 50 can be sent to a C&R. A NFA item made prior to 1970 can be sent to your house. You still have to go through the NFA process, but for the actual transfer, C&R will work.

Wyman

ETA-Now if the shipping dealer knows the law, and agrees to do it, that’s a completely different matter
 
How are you going to ship it? FedEx and UPS will charge an arm and a leg, and that's assuming you can even convince the clerk it's OK to send. USPS doesn't allow C&R holders to ship handguns. The easiest and cheapest way is find a FFL that'll do it for a reasonable price. USPS lets dealers send and receive and even with their fee added on it should be cheaper than UPS or FedEx.

I'm guessing the buyer just wants you to wrap it up and ship in a USPS flat rate box because that's the cheapest option for him.
 
GBExpat said:
So ... you bought this M57 from a gunshop?

I own 4 of the M57s, advertised by the vendor to be C&R, that I bought online with my 03FFL and had shipped to my house (the address listed on my FFL, btw).
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I got it in a trade with another person, facilitated by an FFL. This all looks irrelevant anyway because it looks like NY is one of a very few states where a C&R doesn’t really matter you still need to use and FFL. The buyer seems really opposed to using an FFL and the only reason I can think that someone would be so opposed is because they’re trying to do some shady. That’s just my take.
 
daniel craig said:
The buyer seems really opposed to using an FFL and the only reason I can think that someone would be so opposed is because they’re trying to do some shady. That’s just my take.
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I can’t speak to NY laws on the matter, but I can definitely understand someone with a C&R FFL not wanting to use another FFL for the transfer. It doesn’t necessarily mean that the buyer is doing something shady. At a minimum involving another FFL is added time and expense for the buyer to go pick up the gun, and any savings on shipping may be a wash (or even a loss) depending on the receiving FFL’s transfer fees.

As an example, I’m pretty centrally located in my city, but it takes at minimum an hour and a half for me to drive to my FFL, transfer a gun, and get back to whatever I was doing. And that’s a no chatting, no browsing, “I’m on my lunch break, let’s get this done” kind of thing. Say you save $30 on shipping by using a FFL. Cheapest transfer I’ve found is $25 (which seems to be about the normal “good deal” transfer price) so that’s only $5 less expensive. Then you take into account the gas and time of actually going to pick up the gun and you’ve actually lost money compared to just paying the more expensive shipping, for something that could have just been shipped to the buyer’s house (again, not accounting for NY laws).

And none of that even begins to address the current pandemic stuff. The buyer could be in a high risk demographic (age, comorbidities, compromised immune system, or living with someone who is high risk) and have a very good reason for not wanting to leave the house (to say nothing of all the “shelter in place” orders across various states right now).

Ultimately as the seller it is your decision. I’m not saying that you’re wrong, and NY law may not allow a C&R to receive the gun anyway. But for a $200 pistol that is sold in multiple places as C&R and given everything else that is going on right now, I can understand a buyer with a C&R FFL being opposed to having to go to another FFL to handle the transaction for a number of reasons, none of which imply that the buyer is trying to do something illegal or shady.
 
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