J frame or i frame help...

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WestKentucky

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I have a shot at an older S&W. I know it’s a 32 hand ejector, but I know that the ejector rod has a mushroom cap on it making me think it’s earlier than 1950 when the J frame was introduced. Either way, I intend to buy it assuming I can negotiate sentimental value out of it. I just want to know for sure what bird im chasing because I’m less interested in a J frame than I am an i frame. Seems that mushroom cap should be a key identifier.
 
In the picture below my 1953 I frame .32 hand ejector has a 3" barrel , note the shorter length of the cylinder. J frames fill the receiver opening with their longer cylinder. I don't think the round knob ejector lever made it past WW2. FYI the top gun is a 5" S&W second model .44 Hand ejector in .44 spl. .
P1030504_zps56cdbb29.jpg
 
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In the picture below my 1953 I frame .32 hand ejector has a 3" barrel , not the shorter length of the cylinder. J frames fill the receiver opening with their longer cylinder. I don't think the round knob ejector lever made it past WW2. FYI the top gun is a 5" S&W second model .44 Hand ejector in .44 spl. .
View attachment 906152
Gordon, is the 44 special a k frame?
I like both revolvers :thumbup:
 
No an N frame ! Own the cased set for $1500 + shipping . The Sambar stag grips are the real deal and both guns in high condition :)
 
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the I frame cylinders do not fill the frame window as seen with this I frame .32 Long. The J frame .32 Long will have a cylinder that fills the frame window more completely.
 
In the picture below my 1953 I frame .32 hand ejector has a 3" barrel , note the shorter length of the cylinder. J frames fill the receiver opening with their longer cylinder. I don't think the round knob ejector lever made it past WW2. FYI the top gun is a 5" S&W second model .44 Hand ejector in .44 spl. .
View attachment 906152

Love the .44 hand ejector. Would it be considered a pre model 22? I bought one of the model 21s, not the Thunder Ranch model, I love a .44 special anything. I guess I read too much Elmer Keith and Skitteer when I was growing up. That model 21 is probably my least favorite gun, because of the Hillary hole. I just can’t get used to it. It will be a trade gun when something comes along. I found a 4” model 624, new in the box, a few years ago and love it. The one in your picture is beautiful. You must have mugged someone, in the back alley, to get it for that price. Below is a 1940 22/32 hand ejector, I bought in a gun shop in Houston (Collectors firearms) back in September. It is not considered a true Bekeart. It wasn’t priced like one either. It is 90% plus condition. It is a neat little revolver. It is the only I frame I own.

547F16B2-908B-498F-9FDC-5D5C77C47EF7.jpeg
 
I can’t negotiate the sentimental out of the gun, we are close but my “all in” price doesn’t quite reach the owners “let it go” price. So for now we have stopped negotiating. Condition is the biggest thing, and it’s hard to judge, especially when a less knowledgible person is the one looking. They look at it as in remarkable shape for being 100 years old, and as a gun enthusiast I see nicks in the nickel and rust in those nicks which likely means minor pitting. They see a 99% gun, I see an 80% gun and the value is vastly different. My offer stands, and I hope to hear back from the owner, but for now I don’t expect to.
 
No an N frame ! Own the cased set for $1500 + shipping . The Sambar stag grips are the real deal and both guns in high condition :)
And besides being in that S&W commemorative case with the tacky S&W original knife you get original grips from early i frame 5 screw .32 S&W long (30 no dash = 1954-55) and the 1937 second model .44 hand ejector .44 spl. 5" , both in more than 90 % . Plus $400+ in Sambar stag . :)
 
Howdy

It is quite simple to tell an I frame from a J frame.

The trigger guard of an I frame has the same general shape as most other S&W revolvers. The trigger guard of a J frame is much more 'stretched out' than the trigger guard on any other S&W revolver that I can think of. Also, the cylinder of an I frame is shorter than the cylinder of a J frame. I frame 38s did not have a long enough cylinder for a 38 Special, J frames do. This photo is of a couple of S&W 22 Rimfire revolvers, but it is typical of all I frame and J frame revolvers. At the top is an I frame 22/32 Heavy Frame Target revolver. It shipped in 1923. The Model 63 at the bottom of the photo shipped around 1980. A classic 22/32 Kit Gun.

pn87C8kkj.jpg
 
Below is a 1940 22/32 hand ejector, I bought in a gun shop in Houston (Collectors firearms) back in September. It is not considered a true Bekeart. It wasn’t priced like one either. It is 90% plus condition. It is a neat little revolver. It is the only I frame I own.

Howdy Again

Your 'Bekeart' looks just like mine, and mine shipped in 1940 too.

poeqIdYFj.jpg
 
Howdy Again

Your 'Bekeart' looks just like mine, and mine shipped in 1940 too.

View attachment 906765

I can tell you have good taste. I had been looking for a nice 22/32 heavy frame target for a long time and just happened on one. Would one made in 1940 be considered a Bekeart? I thought the true Bekearts were revolvers made from 1911 to 1916 or so. I have even heard some collectors, that are on the snobby side, say, “ if it wasn’t shipped to Phil Beakeart, it was not considered a Beakeart, but just a .22/.32 hand ejector. What would be your option on this. I had mine lettered, Roy Jinks, refereed to Bekeart, but just came short of calling mine a Bekeart. I am not sure what to call later ones.
 
Howdy Again

I have only met Roy in person once, but I have had lots of conversations with him by email over the years. He is the ultimate authority on all things Smith and Wesson, and he is a very nice, friendly person too. Not a 'snob' in the usual sense of the word, but he does have some strong opinions, which he is entitled to. I have several of his books, and I often refer to them in all things S&W.

Anyway, here is what the Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson, by Supica and Nahas has to say about 'Bekeartness' and what constitutes a 'true' Bekeart. SCSW ranks them in four levels, from 'Truest', to 'Still Sorta True'. According to SCSW these are the 'true' Bekearts.

1. The first Bekeart shipment, the 292 guns that were shipped directly to Phillip Bekeart in San Francisco in 1911. These are the 'Truest Bekearts'.
2. First Bekeart-Pattern production run: Apparently when the Bekeart order was received, S&W made 1,044 of them. Bekeart's shipment was in this batch, but they were shipped to other dealers too. This is the second level of 'True Bekieartness". Not a catalog item yet, serial numbers ran from 138226 to 139275 in the 32 HE serial number series.
3. Bekeart grip numbered revolvers: Apparently they all had a separate serial number stamped on the bottom of the wooden grips, starting with 1 and running up through 3,000. This is the third level of 'True Bekeartness'.
4. Bekeart shipped 22/32 HEs from later production: Any pre-war Bekeart that was actually shipped to Bekeart. This is the last level of 'True Bekeartness'.

So in his letter, where did Roy say yours was shipped? If it actually shipped to the Bekeart dealership in 1940, it is a True Bekeart of the last degree.

I suppose I should letter mine to see where it shipped.

Interestingly enough, I did a google search on Phillip Bekeart. He did not just deal in S&W revolvers, he was a Colt dealer too. Probably dealt with a lot of other manufacturers too.

I found this photo of Phillip B Bekeart and his crew on the web. Our man is on the far right, but it appears that Phillip K. Bekeart, possibly his son? also worked for him. This photo is in the Connecticut State Library, probably because Bekeart was also a big Colt dealer. Interestingly enough, Phillip B Bekeart died in 1936, but perhaps his shop was still in business in 1940 when your revolver shipped.

pnko7eOej.jpg
 
Howdy Again

I have only met Roy in person once, but I have had lots of conversations with him by email over the years. He is the ultimate authority on all things Smith and Wesson, and he is a very nice, friendly person too. Not a 'snob' in the usual sense of the word, but he does have some strong opinions, which he is entitled to. I have several of his books, and I often refer to them in all things S&W.

Anyway, here is what the Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson, by Supica and Nahas has to say about 'Bekeartness' and what constitutes a 'true' Bekeart. SCSW ranks them in four levels, from 'Truest', to 'Still Sorta True'. According to SCSW these are the 'true' Bekearts.

1. The first Bekeart shipment, the 292 guns that were shipped directly to Phillip Bekeart in San Francisco in 1911. These are the 'Truest Bekearts'.
2. First Bekeart-Pattern production run: Apparently when the Bekeart order was received, S&W made 1,044 of them. Bekeart's shipment was in this batch, but they were shipped to other dealers too. This is the second level of 'True Bekieartness". Not a catalog item yet, serial numbers ran from 138226 to 139275 in the 32 HE serial number series.
3. Bekeart grip numbered revolvers: Apparently they all had a separate serial number stamped on the bottom of the wooden grips, starting with 1 and running up through 3,000. This is the third level of 'True Bekeartness'.
4. Bekeart shipped 22/32 HEs from later production: Any pre-war Bekeart that was actually shipped to Bekeart. This is the last level of 'True Bekeartness'.

So in his letter, where did Roy say yours was shipped? If it actually shipped to the Bekeart dealership in 1940, it is a True Bekeart of the last degree.

I suppose I should letter mine to see where it shipped.

Interestingly enough, I did a google search on Phillip Bekeart. He did not just deal in S&W revolvers, he was a Colt dealer too. Probably dealt with a lot of other manufacturers too.

I found this photo of Phillip B Bekeart and his crew on the web. Our man is on the far right, but it appears that Phillip K. Bekeart, possibly his son? also worked for him. This photo is in the Connecticut State Library, probably because Bekeart was also a big Colt dealer. Interestingly enough, Phillip B Bekeart died in 1936, but perhaps his shop was still in business in 1940 when your revolver shipped.

View attachment 906986

You are spot on, Roy Jinks is a fine man. He has always answered and question I have emailed him. I have talked with him on the phone a couple times. Always willing to talk and explain anything. I have found most of the people that are firearm authorities, are always more than will to pass knowledge on to others that share the same interest. It is amazing that firearms people are not tight with their knowledge and are will to pass it on to others, to inspire others. I talked to Sheriff Jim Wilson at a NRA convention years ago and I thought I was going to have to put him in the truck and bring him home with me. They are all very neat, unique people.
On my .22\.32 Hand ejector, it was shipped to Stoeger in New York city. So I am sure mine is not considered a Beakeart. I don't intend to pass it off as one. I reference Beakeart when I talk about it, because most know more about a Beakeart than a .22\.32 Hand ejector, heavy frame target. I wish mine was a tire Beakeart.
As far as letters go. I have gotten factory letters on quite a few of my firearms. Some people say they are a waste of time or unnecessary. I think they are neat to have on older or firearms that are out of production. The tell you how it left the factory, finish, type of grips and any special order features and when and where it shipped to and how many of the same type guns that were in the shippment. If you ever sale one and can show it is original, as it left the factory, it goes a long way. I am not in the business of selling, I am more of a buyer. I just like to have them for my personal records on my guns. I believe if you ever Sent in and got one, you would be getting more. It is neat to have a little history on the firearms you own. I seen you gun in post, you have put up before. Your gun is beautiful and one of the highest condition, I have seen. You got lucky when you found that one. I enjoy your post and the insight you have. I watch for your post.
 
I have lettered a few Smiths. I have also gotten a few letters when I bought some old revolvers. I agree, it is worth having a letter to have some history of a particular firearm, however they are pricey enough that I am not going to letter everything I have.
 
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