.44 special and unique

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conan32120

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Alliant shows 6.3gr as a max load of Unique for a 240gr lswc but 6.9gr as max for a 250gr cast keith style bullet. How does that make sense? Of course Alliant does not give pressure levels on their site. As fyi I shoot a charter bulldog and never max my load, my question is just out of curiosity.
 
Looking at their site I would have to guess that the difference is in the seating depth between the two as the primary player....again, just guessing. I would suggest looking at data from another resource like one of the Lyman manuals, which are very Alliant powder friendly for comparison.
 
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Keith style Bullets put more of the weight of the bullet outside of the case, giving more room in the case allowing a bigger powder charge without going over pressure
 
Alliant shows 6.3gr as a max load of Unique for a 240gr lswc but 6.9gr as max for a 250gr cast keith style bullet. How does that make sense? Of course Alliant does not give pressure levels on their site. As fyi I shoot a charter bulldog and never max my load, my question is just out of curiosity.

We all crave certainty. Would it not be nice if the answer to life, the universe,and everything was 42 and stayed 42? Unfortunately, life has a lot of variance.

There is the variance in powder pressure curves, something that is almost invisible to we reloaders. There is the variance from peak pressure, the SAMMI allowable is plus or minus 10%, if memory is correct. I don't know what Alliant is measuring, the average, or the max variance, probably the average. And be aware, the powders we have, they are mixed. It is surprising how many products are actually mixed with high and low stocks to an average. Be that bourbon, whiskey, mustard, ketchup, and gunpowder. At least the gun powders we buy over the shelf, because few home reloaders have pressure gages to determine the exact amount of pressure for X grains of powder.

I don't know if Alliant wore out their old pressure barrel, but different barrels will result in a different pressure curve. And the lot they used, had to be a little different from the last lot, or one 100 years ago, but the average max pressure is still within that varience that they set for themselves when mixing. I have been told, that is plus or minus 10%.

For you with a Bulldog, you really don't want to push the 44 Special pressures. It used to be that 6.5 grains Unique was considered a factory equivalent, but primarily based on velocity. I still consider 6.5 grains Unique a max load in a Bulldog, but I don't have a pressure gauge.

this is my data with a N frame 44 Special

Code:
4" M624   
                                                                                                                              
240 LSWC   5.0 grs Bullseye  Lot 6/20/05 Mixed Brass WLP      
T = 64 °F         3-Mar-07  
                                                             
Ave Vel =        763.9                                                                       
Std Dev =        16.18                                                                      
ES =                60.94                                                                      
High =              794.7                                                                      
Low =               733.7                                                                      
Number shots =                   28                                                                            

very accurate, little powder residue                                                                                                 

                                                                                                        

240 LSWC   6.25 grs Unique  thrown,  lot UN387(6-21-1993) Mixed Brass WLP
T = 62 °F         25-Feb-07                                                              

Ave Vel =        795.1                                                                       
Std Dev =        23.13                                                                      
ES =                65.05                                                                      
Low =               821                                                                          
High =              756.5                                                                      
N =                   12                                                              

Accurate        
                                                                                            

240 LSWC    6.6 grs Unique thrown,  lot UN364 3/9/92 Mixed cases, Brass WLP
T = 70 °F         4-Apr-09                                                                
                                                                                                    
Ave Vel =        859.6                                                                       
Std Dev =        21.7                                                                        
ES =                77.85                                                                      
High =              878.4                                                                      
Low=                800                                                                          
N =                   10                                                                            

240 LSWC   7.0 grains Unique,   Midway cases, WLP (brass)     
T= 45-50 °F     15 Dec 2002                                                                   
                                                                                                        
Ave Vel =                                                    902.8                          
Std Dev =                                                    21.49                          
ES =                                                            81.76                          
Low =                                                           859.8                          
High =                                                          941.6                          
N  =                                                              33                                
                                                                                                        
240 LSWC    7.5 grs Unique thrown,  lot UN364 3/9/92 Mixed cases, Brass WLP
T = 70 °F         4-Apr-09                                                                
                                                                                               

Ave Vel =        965.8                                                                       
Std Dev =        23.15                                                                      
ES =                65.28                                                                      
High =              986.3                                                                      
Low=                921                                                                          
N =                   12                                                                            

240 JHP  6.5 grs Unique thrown,  Midway Brass WLP                  
T = 64 °F         25-Feb-07                                                              
                                                                                                       
Ave Vel =        791.4                                                                       
Std Dev =        34.78                                                                      
ES =                114.5                                                                      
Low =               845.6                                                                      
High =              731.1                                                                      
N =                   9                                                                              

Accurate

Notice how much velocity picks up above 6.5 grains Unique. Pressure is increasing faster. I would never load more than the 6.6 grain load (all dumped from the Dillion 550 powder horn) as a Bulldog is a very light frame pistol. I would suggest, try 6.0 grains first, or maybe the Bullseye load. I have a Bulldog and it really kicks with 240's and 6.5 grains Unique. It is not a pleasant pistol to shoot, but then, it was not really meant to be a plinker. It is as light as possible, as small as possible, as concealable as possible, for a 44 Special. And there are tradeoffs getting there.

Never, ever load my 7.0 grains of Unique and up in a Bulldog. Now as to your conundrum of a max load, I am going to say, it won't hurt using Alliant's data. My data, old data, anyone elses data, they are all un instrumented best guesses. Or, wishful thinking.
 
I never load over 6.0 gr for my bulldog (whether the little 5 shot could endure it or not) as it gets a bit uncomfortable to shoot after that. My curiosity was larger powder charge for a heavier bullet seems against all logic. I'm almost wondering if alliant was taking lead hardness into their data and feel that the speer lswc was a softer swaged bullet and their data is to reduce leading
 
I never load over 6.0 gr for my bulldog (whether the little 5 shot could endure it or not) as it gets a bit uncomfortable to shoot after that. My curiosity was larger powder charge for a heavier bullet seems against all logic. I'm almost wondering if alliant was taking lead hardness into their data and feel that the speer lswc was a softer swaged bullet and their data is to reduce leading
That's very possible, swaged LSWCs are generally run as plinking loads, or lower pressure loads anyway.....
 
I never load over 6.0 gr for my bulldog (whether the little 5 shot could endure it or not) as it gets a bit uncomfortable to shoot after that. My curiosity was larger powder charge for a heavier bullet seems against all logic. I'm almost wondering if alliant was taking lead hardness into their data and feel that the speer lswc was a softer swaged bullet and their data is to reduce leading

This is my very old data, when chronographs first became affordable, on my Bulldog


Charter Arms Bulldog 3' Barrel

250 LSWC 6.6 gr Unique little dandy Rotor 13 lot UN 331 Fed
T ≈ 75 ° F 15-Aug-92

Ave Vel = 698
Std Dev = 20
ES = 46
Low = 670
High = 716
N = 5

These bullets were the classic Keith 429421, hand cast by Reese Teague of Valiant Bullets. Reese carried loads of bullets to gun shows and I loved his Keith bullets. But, I did not know he was hand casting the things, and so when he got automated machines, that was the end of my supply of the Keith 250.

Reese died in 2018, and so, no more Valiant bullets, RIP.

As you can see, when you compare velocities, that velocities in a three inch barrel are much slower than a four inch. And as you have noted, the recoil of a standard velocity 44 Special is surprisingly stout in a 20 ounce Bulldog!
 
Agree with quite a bit but 6.0 is low for most 240 Cast SWC. Not low as in won’t work but low as not near max. I have seen some Hornady 240 Swagged SWC data that lists 6.0 as max but that is because of the jelly soft bullets not pressure. Anyhow, bullet design is important as it effects case capacity. An example I use a RimRock 260 SWC Wide Flatpoint that is similar to the 250-K bullet as it sits deep in the case much deeper than a 429421. I had to find data that took that into consideration. Turned out that 6.0 was a good number after development but still not Max. More than I would shoot from my Bulldog though. A great load I have found for the Bulldog is a 165 SWC and 6.0 grains of Winchester 244. Duplicates POI of the Hornady Critical Defense 165 round. It is relatively soft shooting and pressures are still well below the limit.

https://shop.hodgdon.com/winchester/winchester-winclean-244
 
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