12 gauge help..

Check your charge bar on the mec. See what shot charge your bar will drop. 1oz? 1⅛oz?
Do a little research and choose the hulls you will use. It matters on what wad you will need.
FYI...don't skimp on hulls. Buy good AA or Remington's Premier hulls. Your mec will operate MUCH smoother.

I shot lots of 1⅛ Windjammers for AA hulls they were alittle cheaper than Winchester wads.

Go to the closest skeet/trap range and rummage around in the trash for Remington GUN CLUB hulls.*
They load exactly the same as Win AAs (HS) * (which you ain't gonna fund in the trash)

Assuming 1-1/8oz . . .
Remembering.....
- That the Claybuster CB1118-12 wad** is exactly the same as the WAA12 wad
- That GUN CLUB = WinAA(HS)

Go HERE and look for that wad/RedDot combo for 1.200fps

** Ditto the CBO118-12 wad -- just slightly cheaper

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If your're going to stick with those Fiocchi/Federal Hulls, go HERE.

its been a while since i reloaded shells. But i really liked the Win AA and the Remington STS line. Federal and Estate skived hulls went in the emergency bucket.

As said, wads are hull dependant. There are two basic types, tapered and straight. Then they vary by shot charge.

I cant offer much more, as its been a while and i was never an avid shell reloader.

MEHavey said:

Go to the closest skeet/trap range and rummage around in the trash for Remington GUN CLUB hulls.*
They load exactly the same as Win AAs (HS) * (which you ain't gonna fund in the trash)

Assuming 1-1/8oz . . .
Remembering.....
- That the Claybuster CB1118-12 wad** is exactly the same as the WAA12 wad
- That GUN CLUB = WinAA(HS)

Go HERE and look for that wad/RedDot combo for 1.200fps

** Ditto the CBO118-12 wad -- just slightly cheaper

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If your're going to stick with those Fiocchi/Federal Hulls, go HERE.

Click to expand...

Yes claybuster....not windjammer.
We shot Windjammers too, but you're right it was claybuster that we used most often.

Or just buy a case of AA and save them and start reloading them. Probably be good for 10x reloads.


Some of those cheap hulls can be a nightmare to reload.

Also look at what Powder Bushings you have and make sure they are dropping the right volume. Rarely do they drop what they say they will. Humidity, vibration, static powder type and even the type of powder bottle makes a difference. BUT there are two ways you can go: 1) Buy the closest one UNDER what you think you need and if need be Dremel it to match your needs. Or 2) Buy 3 to 6 in a series, beginning with one less and then more above what you need. They are numbered, and now you have several extra different ones for different possible future powders.
I've had MEC for over 50 years. Their plant is an hours drive from me. I had up to 8 powder bushings over the years. About 10 years ago I wanted close to max. charge and couldn't find the right size bushing. So I took out the bushing from the machine and started using a Dremel tool stone and then a sanding disk on inside of the bushing. There is a lot of metal to take off those things. I kept my sanding in revolving manner so to maintain the circular I.D. shape of the bushing. And it works fine. It's not pretty, but it is smooth to the touch and I kept my modification away from the top and bottom sides so it doesn't interfere with the bar travel. If the bushing gets hot, stop, let it cool, install it and drop a few charges and check the powder on a scale. I am at .2 grains under max. and that is fine because once in a while I drop max. on a charge. Note: progressive machines like ours do not vibrate as much as single stage. So at the beginning of each loading session tip the bottles back a forth a few times, so the powder flows consistently. ALWAYS grab the shot bottle first. Now I still have a couple of 50 year old bushings I originally bought just in case I ever find a powder that can use them. lol

MEHavey said:

Remington GUN CLUB hulls.

Click to expand...

Great hulls, just as good as the new AA's IMO

Thomasss said:

Also look at what Powder Bushings you have and make sure they are dropping the right volume. Rarely do they drop what they say they will.

Click to expand...

They never do.

If you find a Red Dot load you like, and you will, Promo is a little cheaper and is interchangeable with Red Dot.

The top gun hulls aren’t the best but aren’t the worst either. Don’t expect 10 reloads out of them. I find cheap federal hulls are great for field loads (straight wall = extra capacity). I do find the primer pockets loosen after 2-3 loadings. The pocket has less metal support and the paper basewad doesn’t help much. I mark hulls with a sharpie to track loadings. After 2 loadings I check the primers by brushing out the hulls (to get out bits of grass, stray spiders, feathers, etc) and tossing any if the brush pushes the primer out. I haven’t had any primers fall out since. Remington and old Win AA hulls often get 8 loadings and fail from burn holes in the crimp (ok, I’m cheap and they fail the next load when crimp petals disappear).

The tapered vs straight wall case isn’t that big a deal if you’re using published loads. There’s a lot of mix and match in the Lyman manual. Which is good because I can’t remember the last time I saw federal wads (I mostly look for 20 gauge ones though). But you need to avoid mixing and matching. Red dot and 12 gauge target loads give you a lot of options though.

I'll echo all the mec charge bar info the guys are putting down. I haven't used cheddite primers in a while. But they used to be a larger diameter than american primers. Very good chance they still are. You could get them into sts and AA hulls but then you are stuck continually looking for cheddite primers because ya done stretched everything out. Point of no return type deal.

If they still are larger diameter than win and fed 209s than heres what I'd do... since you have 2k of primers, buy 2k wads for your fed straight wall hulls and shoot em up. Once them cheddite primers are gone, if you enjoy the process, ditch the hulls and cheddites and start looking for win or fed 209 primers, gun club and sts hulls, and never look back. Your life and loading experience will be much more streamlined and enjoyable IMHO. With GCs and STS hulls you will NEVER EVER have to worry about basewads... EVER.

Don't get me wrong, fed hulls are actually great and you can stuff greater shot weights in em, but it seems like basewads, headstamps, heads, and even length of head are always changing. Got buckets of em that I don't wanna deal with.

Also, I recognize this may not be popular, but when I was buying win "universal" walmart boxes (100), I'd get 2-6 reloads out of em. Turned into a hell of a deal. The steel heads would usually start to expand or primer pockets would become too loose before the crimps became worthless. My experience with them mirrored MannyCA's video on the YouTube.

koni said:

Scored a deal from a friend getting a divorce. Bought a mec 9000 and 2k cheddite CX2000 primers for $600 and some fiocchi and federal top gun halls. Both 2 3/4” all brand new in never opened box. Just ordered a Lyman 5th ed book to do some reading. I have a pound of red dot sitting on the shelf. Before the book arrives i have a trip planned to a LGS what wads and shot does anyone recommend?

Click to expand...

Junk the Federal hulls. Get AA, or Remington STS/ Nitro 27 or Nitro Sporting hulls. Or Federal HOA hulls. HOA hulls are the same as Remington Gun Clubs, just red instead of green .

MEHavey said:

Go to the closest skeet/trap range and rummage around in the trash for Remington GUN CLUB hulls.*
They load exactly the same as Win AAs (HS) * (which you ain't gonna fund in the trash)

Assuming 1-1/8oz . . .
Remembering.....
- That the Claybuster CB1118-12 wad** is exactly the same as the WAA12 wad
- That GUN CLUB = WinAA(HS)

Go HERE and look for that wad/RedDot combo for 1.200fps

** Ditto the CBO118-12 wad -- just slightly cheaper

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If your're going to stick with those Fiocchi/Federal Hulls, go HERE.

Click to expand...

Gun Clubs do not always (amended, and thank you MEHavey) load the same as AA-HS hulls. They load the same as AA-CF hulls, which haven't been made in 22 years. The AA-HS has an insert inside to provide taper in the base. Loading bulky powders like Red Dot in AA-HS requires the use of a shorter wad, I use the Downrange DRA-12 wad with Green Dot to get correct stack height. Using AA-HS data for Red or Green Dot and WAA-12 (or the Claybuster equivalent) with Gun Club hulls will result in dished in crimps and/or central holes that let pellets out. Loading AA-HS hulls with WAA-12 wads and 1 1/8 oz. shot and bulky powders like Red or Green Dot will cause bulged crimps which may push open in the box. I know this from experience, I loaded up about 1200 shells that bulged, then found out about the DRA-12 wad for Green Dot with AA-HS hulls, and it worked. The DRA-12 wads worked so well and leave less plastic in the bore, that I switched to using only Downrange wads.

Yes, I know the 5 the edition says AA-CF and AA-HS load the same; they do not.

entropy said:

Yes, I know the 5 the edition says AA-CF and AA-HS load the same; they do not.

Click to expand...

entropy said:

Gun Clubs do not load the same as AA-HS hulls

Click to expand...

AA(HS)/GunClub: I find . . .
From a resultant crimp standpoint, effectively the same.
From a resultant and velocity standpoint (Oehler) chronographed/skeet standpoint, within 15 fps the same (or so)

Just now loaded side-by-side on MEC-600JR (my standard 3/4 oz/9's/ClaybusterWad/Rio Primer)

(AA on 4th reloading)

Standard AAs -- only very slightly so. Far less preferable -- but certainly shootable w/ changing the set-up.

OP may have the cart in front of the horse.

There is what you can load with what you have, but aside from that, what loads do you want? Purpose once loaded? Components are available for just about anything. Like roads that go everywhere, you need to pick a destination before you pick the road that will take you there.

Having said that, if you only want to load something to go BANG......with what you have.........the Mec 9000 likely came with a 1 1/8 oz shot bar and powder bushings to match. Powder bushings typically used for 1 1/8 oz payloads.

So......the Federal Top Guns and Fiocchi will both load using Claybuster CB61118-12 wads. Get a bag of #7 1/2 or #8 shot........and have at it.

Top Gun hulls do fine.......

One more thing.......DO NOT assume the powder bushing charts that came with the loader are accurate. I have found mine to be as much as 2 to 3 bushings off from what the bushing chart indicated. Install the bushing, load the powder and then weigh several drops of powder to verify what you are actually getting. Then once you get going, weigh an occasional sample (every 5th drop or so) to again verify that what you are putting under the shot payload is what you intended.

ALWAYS weigh drops before starting production!
I weigh 10 drops (from a full bottle), then average them, and use that average as my baseline. I weigh 1 or 2 drops in between boxes, and I don't let the shot or powder bottles get below half full unless I will be running out of one of the two until I can get more. I try not to let that happen.

MEHavey said:

AA(HS)/GunClub: I find . . .
From a resultant crimp standpoint, effectively the same.
From a resultant and velocity standpoint (Oehler) chronographed/skeet standpoint, within 15 fps the same (or so)

Just now loaded side-by-side on MEC-600JR (my standard 3/4 oz/9's/ClaybusterWad/Rio Primer)
View attachment 1114417
(AA on 4th reloading)

Standard AAs -- only very slightly so. Far less preferable -- but certainly shootable w/ changing the set-up.

Click to expand...

True...with a 3/4 oz. Skeet load and Red Dot. Try loading 19.0 of Green Dot with 1 1/8 and either of the Claybuster wads you listed, or WAA-12, and you will have crimps coming up. This is why Winchester WSH was formulated. The DRA-12 wad makes it possible to put a Handicap load using Green Dot in AA-HS hulls and achieve good stack height.
So....you are correct in that they will load the same for most applications , but Lyman' books do not differentiate between AA-CF and AA-HS hulls despite the difference in internal structure, even though the volumetric difference is small, but important for some applications.

The shells pictured look great, BTW.

koni said:

Scored a deal from a friend getting a divorce. Bought a mec 9000 and 2k cheddite CX2000 primers for $600 and some fiocchi and federal top gun halls. Both 2 3/4” all brand new in never opened box. Just ordered a Lyman 5th ed book to do some reading. I have a pound of red dot sitting on the shelf. Before the book arrives i have a trip planned to a LGS what wads and shot does anyone recommend?

Click to expand...

Congrats on your find! I bet you will love it!

Setting up your press for a particular hull will require some time. Setting it up to load a different hull can be a PITA. On top of that, keeping components for multiple hulls takes up space, and can get costly. If time, space, and $ aren't concerns, have fun with all the different hulls you want! However, committing to one hull may be something worth considering... keeping one set of components saves space and $, and you don't have to tinker with your press.

You didn't indicate what you want to do with your new tool/toy. Loading for skeet, trap, and sporting clays will lead you down a different path than loading for your buddies to bust clays and talk smack in the back pasture. If the latter, your Federal hulls will be fine. The only real negative is they won't hold up as long as others. However, you can find once fired Federals by the bushel at any club in America. Clones of Federal wads are numerous and easy to find.

I shoot a Fiocchi load at my Annie Oakley game. The hulls hold up just fine, and the birds break as well as any other load. You can get Fiocchi wads at Grafs for a great price. I get once fired Fiocchi hulls by the garbage bag full at a local sporting clays course. You can also buy new hulls at Ballistic Products or Precision Reloading.

As others have said, if you are going to dedicate your press to one hull, Remington is probably the way to go. Winchester AA would be another good choice. Downrange or Claybuster have great options for both hulls.

Powder is becoming easier to find, but certainly not cheaper to buy! I think 700X or Titewad are good choices for learning the ropes (when you can find them). They are pretty versatile, and there is a ton of data out there for both. Just hold your nose and hand over your credit card.

Shot is a much tougher nut to crack. IF you can find it, you will pay... A LOT! In my area, the price of shot makes loading more expensive than buying cheap factory loads off the shelf. Reclaimed shot is half the price, and (IMHO) is definitely the way to go.

Cheddite primers will be fine, and are pretty much the only show in town right now. Internet wisdom will tell you that they are practically interchangeable with Winchester 209. Hodgdon has quite a bit of load data for them, so you can make up you own mind about that. The current CX2000 are a smidge bigger than WIN/REM/FED 209 (.243" vs .241"), but I have never experienced a loose primer problem as a result of using Cheddites.

Have fun, and break 'em all!

Howa 9700 said:

One more thing.......DO NOT assume the powder bushing charts that came with the loader are accurate.

Click to expand...

Boy... Howdy.


.

Federal hulls are just fine for one or two reloads. A little harder to cycle. I use them with 12S3 clones for skeet and sporting where I don't pick up empties.
Gun Clubs and AA for all else.

koni said:

I’ll be looking for the AA hulls from now on.

Click to expand...

Don't pass up Remington GUN CLUB !!!

Good buy!

I prefer Green Dot over Red Dot.

AA 1oz, AA Red, Rem RXP and SP are my most used wads.

Win AA, Rem green and black hulls, Fiocci hulls .

Weigh the powder charge.

Shot is 7 1/2, 6, 5, 4. Never had much use for 8s or 9s, personally.

Depending on size of "girls", a lot of guys will load no more than 1 oz, and 7/8 oz leaves even less recoil, which seems to be the one factor that takes the fun out of it for kids. But to get there, you would need shot bars for one or both, smaller powder bushings and different wads. The fun begins!

BTW, I got started with a hand thrower. Most I threw myself. Too much fun.

You got a ton of great advice, and I’ll bet your totally confused???

When you get your manual, look at the different loads. Find a load you like, maybe based on velocity, pressure, minimal amount of powder. Then buy the wads that recipe calls for.

I have a MEC 600 jr so changing from one load to another is usually just changing a powder bushing. I’m not familiar with the 9000 but if it’s like my Dillion progressive, it could be a project.

Personally I use Fiocchi and Federal hills for 1 1/4 oz and larger hunting loads. These are straight wall hulls and have more interior space. But i also use the Federals for a 1 1/8 oz trap load.

Like many, I prefer the old Win AAs and Rem STSs. I load them for skeet and sporting clays.

But you can find a load for any of these hulls in most manuals.

I’ve bought from Ballistic Products for 30 years and they were my favorite. Recently, Precision Reloading has had more availability, especially with wads and hulls.