The Dumpster Full of Firearms

Reading the news story and giving a short synopsis helps. Basics was an FFL had a bunch of junk guns of various states of condition. He contacted the ATF who instructed him to cut the receiver in 3 places then discard as trash. He tasked a kid to do the job. People approached the kid and asked to take a couple of the junk guns not yet cut as wall hangers. The kid handed them over without much thought. Per the ATF the guns in the dumpster were not cut wide enough nor in the right places so many of the "demilled" guns were deemed functional. Therefore the FFL is facing charges from the incident.

If I found a dumpster full of firearms, know who I would tell? That's right. Absolutely no one.

I would have sold em for parts only. I have a feeling seeing their mostly Turkish shotguns they are probably returns that had issues working correctly. But damn, If I saw that I'd mask up and load up my trunk

From what I've read it gives me the impression the FFL didn't properly supervise his employee to insure the guns were cut as directed by the ATF. Naturally the FFL will be held responsible for the employee illegally giving someone a functional firearm. When I was a young junior NCO, I got my butt chewed out a few times for not supervising my subordinates closely enough.

A poster familiar with the situation is on our Oklahoma gun forum. He posted the following:

the real story [not published by liberal media]
this was a wholesaler - not a retail shop
they had a batch of defective ar style shotguns
asked ATF what they should do as the mfg did not want to pay for return
ATF said cut them up and dump them
they had a worker cutting them up and throwing them in a dumpster
-- "worker" gave a couple of them to someone who saw him cutting them up /Mistake!!
all of the ones in the dumpster had been ruined although some may still somewhat function
-- another "worker" failure
not nearly as big a story as MSNBC liberal garbage makes it

https://www.okshooters.com/threads/wow.350716/page-3#post-3961824

SunnySlopes said:

A poster familiar with the situation is on our Oklahoma gun forum. He posted the following:

the real story [not published by liberal media]

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To be fair, the "liberal media" basically summarized the story straight from the court docs they linked to. There is no liberal media spin on this.

this was a wholesaler - not a retail shop

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"Gun store" in the MSN article.
Mr Mussato ran three different firearms businesses from the same location. One doesn't have to be open to the public to be considered a retailer.
-International Firearm Corporation LLC
-Tony’s Custom Creations LLC d/b/a Luxury Firearms
-Sooner State Arsenal LLC
All located at 5701 East Reno Avenue, Suite E, Midwest City, Oklahoma

they had a batch of defective ar style shotguns
asked ATF what they should do as the mfg did not want to pay for return
ATF said cut them up and dump them
they had a worker cutting them up and throwing them in a dumpster
-- "worker" gave a couple of them to someone who saw him cutting them up /Mistake!!
all of the ones in the dumpster had been ruined although some may still somewhat function
-- another "worker" failure

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And according to the court docs ATF gave Mussato the exact procedure. A procedure that is easily found on the atf.gov website. And Mussato chose to ignore it.
Blaming this on a teenage worker? No Mussato is 100% at fault.

not nearly as big a story as MSNBC liberal garbage makes it

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Seriously, whoever wrote that is one taco shy of a combination plate. Its a huge story on this forum for a few very good reasons. I'm surprised it wasn't national news the day they found a dumpster filled with guns.

Curious. Very curious.

Either way, the FFL holder is ultimately responsible for the proper handling of any and all firearms that are on his or her acquisition books.

If what is being stated is true, then it was up to the FFL holder to insure that all defunct firearms were properly destroyed per ATF regulations.

I will give some examples from when I turned my Type 2 FFL in.

• I had to properly dispose of any and all firearms that were in my Acquisition Books no matter if they were complete and functional firearms, non functioning firearms, parts guns (with serialize frame/receiver), or bare frames and receivers.
• I had to transfer all serialized parts guns, bare frames/receivers, and all complete firearms by selling them and conducting a BGC with 4473 or transfer to another FFL holder.
• Or mark my Acquisition book showing all firearms were transferred to my private collection
• Any serialized frames and receivers that were not functional had to be destroyed per ATF regulations.
• I also had to properly annotate my Acquisition books to show that the firearms were either legally transferred or legally destroyed before turning in my license and Acquisition books.

When I read the title of this thread, I seriously thought you were talking about where I live.

12Bravo20 said:

I want to see more details too. And it is ridiculous for anyone to throw firearms into a dumpster, especially someone with a FFL.

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Agreed. With the prices people are paying for sight unseen, untested firearms on auction sites, they could have covered the cost for their dumpster rental for decades.

Never heard of dumpster divers ?

12Bravo20 said:

I will give some examples from when I turned my Type 2 FFL in.

• I had to transfer all serialized parts guns, bare frames/receivers, and all complete firearms by selling them and conducting a BGC with 4473 or transfer to another FFL holder.

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Depending on how your business is structured determines how you close it out.
If you were a sole proprietor, you simply dispose your firearms to "12Bravo20 personal collection" and you are done. No 4473, no NICS.
If your FFL was issued to an LLC, corporation or partnership, you simply do one 4473 and NICS on yourself.

No ATF regulation requires you to sell your firearm inventory when going out of business.

BLACKHAWKNJ said:

Never heard of dumpster divers ?

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I have to believe there was value in the parts other than the receivers. Sure cut the receiver, crush the receiver..........put barrels, stocks, etc on eBay or GunBroker and make a few $$$.

alsaqr said:

at an Oklahoma City gun store.

i've been in that that place.

"According to court filings first reported by CourtWatch, on January 19, 2023, an Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, sanitation worker stumbled upon a dumpster with 236 rifles and 12 shotguns in it. The shocking finding led him to call authorities, who found many of the guns were functional, the filings stated."


Federal agents discovered a dumpster filled with almost 250 working rifles and shotguns in Oklahoma, and allege that a man was given 2 free shotguns to hang on his wall (msn.com)

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Yeah i saw the Midwest City sticker on the dumpster and it made sense after that. I don't like going to that part of town much, lol. Even Yukon and Mustang is getting to be a bit hairy at times. I think I read that article but the gunshop didn't sound familiar... I've been to Gun World in del city once and vowed never to go again lol, overpriced stuff all over. Now, Brigadoon Surplus in del city is super nice and my dad and the owner go way back to their army days so I like to support them and buy stuff once and a while from them. They had some really nice M80 ball for 17.99 a while back!

dogtown tom said:

Depending on how your business is structured determines how you close it out.
If you were a sole proprietor, you simply dispose your firearms to "12Bravo20 personal collection" and you are done. No 4473, no NICS.
If your FFL was issued to an LLC, corporation or partnership, you simply do one 4473 and NICS on yourself.

No ATF regulation requires you to sell your firearm inventory when going out of business.

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Correct the it was not required that I transfer them. But I did so since I did not want the transferred to my private collection.

But Again, I always seem to be wrong even when I try to back you up when others are calling you out.

12Bravo20 said:

Correct the it was not required that I transfer them. But I did so since I did not want the transferred to my private collection.

But Again, I always seem to be wrong even when I try to back you up when others are calling you out.

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I didn't write anything about you being "wrong".
I wrote my response for anyone else that holds an FFL because the structure of your business determines how you can lawfully transfer firearms to yourself or others.
You didn't mention how your business was structured.

Seems like they could have sold them for scrap after cutting them up. Or just took them apart and sold individual pieces. A dumpster full could have gotten a few hundred at the scrap yard. Idk haven't kept up w prices.

Sell the parts at gun shows and get a lot more money.

is labor that expensive?? shop owner could have just had a dumpster sale. $20 a gun - as is! could have make a few bucks

rust collector said:

The guns were defective, the supplier would not stand the cost of returning them, and the licensee would have incurred expense and liability in selling unsafe guns. Parts for an unsafe design have little value, especially if not built to a standard pattern, and there is a cost of dismantling, storing and selling. Owner had other ATF issues at the time, so license may have been pulled.

It would have been relatively simple to cut the receivers with a torch, shear or chop saw per ATF instructions, then throw the parts in the dumpster. Instead, guns the ATF claims were functional were given away or not cut to spec. Note that unserviceable is not the same as destroyed. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/how-properly-destroy-firearms This matter had been discussed with ATF agents and according to their statements clear instructions given which were not followed. What made this newsworthy was the number of guns and location of allegedly operable guns outside the control of the licensee.

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Waste !

These happenings crack me up.
You read a article of current situations and you draw a conclusion of what went down based upon a news article.
What you read is what the news agency wants you to believe that's how things went down.

Believe half of what you see and nothing of what you read because the hand is faster then the eye.

Look at the George Zimmerman case. The state if Florida brought up all those bogus charges against Zimmerman and all of the liberal news agencies had him convicted of murdering Travon Martin. . At the end of the trial Zimmerman was acquitted on all of the charges and he got his 9mm pistol back which sold for $5,000 on an auction.
At that time there were a few more police shooting where they charges the cops with murder and the same happened in these cases.
The state brought up murder charges and the liberal new agencies had them convicted before the trials and they all got acquitted of the crimes brought against them.
These bogus charges and bad media reporting caused hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars in damage and cost alot of innocent lives from all of the rioting looting and arson.
I just read the story and let it all play out in a Court of law before I go running my mouth on these stories.
These days the stories you read or watch on television see generally biased one way or another according to their news agenda in me personal opinion.

Highland Lofts said:

These happenings crack me up.
You read a article of current situations and you draw a conclusion of what went down based upon a news article.
....

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Unlike you, many of us took the time to read the linked court documents. Nothing, absolutely nothing in the either the original article or the MSN article conflicts with the information in those court documents. Sure, the media gets a lot of stuff wrong, but just as they deserved to be called out when that happens, they also deserve to be recognized when their reporting is accurate.

You complain about those in this thread drawing a conclusion from what they've read, yet you're drawing a conclusion WITHOUT HAVING READ THE COURT DOCUMENTS.