Range discard bin ammunition

north east redneck said:

If I didn't load it or buy it new in the box, I'm not shooting it. No way no how.
I can see breaking them down for the bullet or brass if you enjoy doing it. I'd of course toss the unknown powder and primer.

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What's with ditching the primer????

Rule3 said:

Heck even breaking them down for a few primers or bullets, is it worth the time and effort?

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I was responding to this.

GeoDudeFlorida said:

The OP is not breaking them down, he’s shooting them in his guns. Do you think that’s worth it?
If so, have at it and best regards.

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Of course I don't think that is worth it.

I have never spoken with you, and couldn't pick you out of a one-person lineup. However, just from interacting with you on this forum I don't think you would pick unknown ammo out of a misfire bin and load it in your firearm.

I am surprised you responded to me as you did, even if it was rhetorically.

silveroak said:

Just caliber interest. Nothing on the economical side. After finding an 8 mm Mauser - fired it since the thinking went why not add a few rounds of that to the day.

I am not a reloader, so my safety concerns did not go to the possibilities of incorrect or purposefully incorrect reloads, more towards being able to make a visual mistake and to chamber and fire - and mostly this is about rifle rounds.

But I see the light now.

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On the topic of close enough to chamber dimensions...Controlled round feed (Mauser) can get you into some trouble. A lot of shorter rounds based on the 7,92 original case head will likely, or absolutely will, chamber in a Mauser style rifle of 30-06 or 8mm caliber, held in place by the extractor without headspacing. In the case of same or smaller bore diameter, you'll likely only get a very stretched and possibly separated case and some gas leakage. I've seen this in a 6.5 Carcano rechambered to 6,5x54MS. I would NOT wish to fire a .358 win in an 8mm-06 chamber or a .308 in a 280 Rem custom though! There are also some boutique single shot pistol wildcats based on the .30-30 cartridge with bullets larger than .308 bore that you absolutely do not want to fire in a .30-30 chambered gun. They are generally formed from 30-30 brass, so the headstamp will lie!

AJC1 said:

What's with ditching the primer????

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Who knows what primer it is? I prefer to use known components in my reloads.

north east redneck said:

Who knows what primer it is? I prefer to use known components in my reloads.

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For match ammo yes,for 38 blamo who cares...

silveroak said:

Very interesting. So in the latter cases greater bullet diameter may still allow the chambering, as in the bolt would just jam it in somehow. Good to know.

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If you examine the dimensions of say a .300 Savage cartridge and a 7x57 cartridge, the issue will be self evident. The controlled feed of your Mauser will hold the .300 Savage case in place and allow firing despite no headspacing on the case shoulder. It is possible to form .300 Savage brass from 7x57, so there is a very slight possibility a 7x57 marked case could in fact be .300 Savage, or most any .473 case head cartridge reformed by an intrepid reloader!

The ammunition industry has taken some of these possibilities into account. A prime and well known example is the .280 Remington. It is impossible to chamber a .280 in a .270 Win rifle. The converse is not true. You can chamber a .270 in a .280, but will get a poopy load, a bullet rattling down an oversized bore and a really funny looking fired case. The .280 was designed with a slightly longer body.

It's the length of the respective cartridges that allows them to fit. The bullet diameters that would make it dangerous. The drawings will help you visualize this.

Hooda Thunkit said:

I was responding to this.

Of course I don't think that is worth it.

I have never spoken with you, and couldn't pick you out of a one-person lineup. However, just from interacting with you on this forum I don't think you would pick unknown ammo out of a misfire bin and load it in your firearm.

I am surprised you responded to me as you did, even if it was rhetorically.

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No offense was intended and I apologize if my remarks caused any.

It’s a bad topic. I think I’ll put it on my ignore list.

In old surplus ammo - corrosive primers?

Seems like a potentially dangerous practice to use ammunition from unknown sources. Too many variables outside the wire for me.

kerreckt said:

Mostly I find 22LR that have a strike on the rim.

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That's what you mostly find at my club too. I shoot in a .22 rifle league, and if I drop a round on the floor during a match, it goes in the bucket. Most .22 target ammo is heavily lubed and will easily pick up a lot of grit from the floor. I'm not putting that crap in one of my better rifles. So it goes in the bucket, and usually ends up in a .22 revolver owned by one of our more ... ahem ... frugal members.

lightman said:

I have a personal rule, I don't shoot unknown ammo. I'll take it home and break it down. It its something that I don't have in my collection I'll add it to the collection cabinet.

Most of the 223/5.56 failure to fire ammo that I find has a lite firing pin indention, probably from a dirty AR. But I don't shoot unknown ammo. Call me paranoid if you want but..........

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Nah........I'd call ya smart.
This is a big no no for myself as well

silveroak said:

Appreciate everyone's replies once again.

Apologies to Geo and Hooda for causing their misunderstanding. Hey, it's me doing not, not either one of you!

But I will tickle this some more for everyone's entertainment

I get it: we are dealing with already dangerous items, by chambering something from the bin, why multiply the risks, especially if the risks can stack to an inappropriate (mistakenly or intentionally hot) load in a weak firearm. Do this enough times and something may/will happen.

But I have to ask you all, reloaders - "my ammo only" line of thought, is that taking it a bit too far?

Think of a field situation (use imagination), or (hope not) an emergency situation.

Would you accept something from a friend or a stranger?

Would you pick up something that sat somewhere for an unknown amount of time, but you had to use it.

Who wouldn't, no?

And if not, what are some of external signs that would prevent you from contemplating use of a common caliber even in a field or an emergency setting.

Comments please

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Decisions made under duress are not applicable to standard range day. This line of question has nothing to do with reloading

silveroak said:

Appreciate everyone's replies once again.

Apologies to Geo and Hooda for causing their misunderstanding. Hey, it's me doing not, not either one of you!

But I will tickle this some more for everyone's entertainment

I get it: we are dealing with already dangerous items, by chambering something from the bin, why multiply the risks, especially if the risks can stack to an inappropriate (mistakenly or intentionally hot) load in a weak firearm. Do this enough times and something may/will happen.

But I have to ask you all, reloaders - "my ammo only" line of thought, is that taking it a bit too far?

Think of a field situation (use imagination), or (hope not) an emergency situation.

Would you accept something from a friend or a stranger?

Would you pick up something that sat somewhere for an unknown amount of time, but you had to use it.

Who wouldn't, no?

And if not, what are some of external signs that would prevent you from contemplating use of a common caliber even in a field or an emergency setting.

Comments please

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Would you accept something from a friend or a stranger?

No. Gun shows and friends are replete with handloads. The source of which, and the reason they are selling them or giving them away are obscure. Hot loads, loads with the wrong powder, loads somebody was too lazy to pull, or estate loads from the late Crazy Uncle Joe are not for me.

silveroak said:

Think of a field situation (use imagination), or (hope not) an emergency situation.

Would you accept something from a friend or a stranger?

Would you pick up something that sat somewhere for an unknown amount of time, but you had to use it.

Who wouldn't, no?

And if not, what are some of external signs that would prevent you from contemplating use of a common caliber even in a field or an emergency setting.

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Emergency situations aren't really the same as shooting someone else's reloads for hunting or range time. I think most of us would shoot someone else's ammo if it was necessary, key word being necessary. That is completely different from shooting some strangers reloads during range time.

I only know one person that reloads, and sometimes I shoot a few of his reloads, but not often. He doesn't do load workups, instead he usually "goes straight to max" (his words). When I do shoot his reloads, it's in his guns. Sometimes he backs them off a couple of tenths because "they feel hot" (again, his words, not mine). I trust him but I shoot my own ammo which is tailored to me and my guns.

Shooting a random strangers reloads at the range, or something I found? No way I would do that.

chris

silveroak said:

Please list the dangerously-close-but-incompatible calibers

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Anything found in a "discard bin", would be at the top of the list. There are people I know, that I wouldn't shoot their ammo, not a chance I'd just shoot random peoples "junk".

lightman said:

I have a personal rule, I don't shoot unknown ammo. I'll take it home and break it down. It its something that I don't have in my collection I'll add it to the collection cabinet.

Most of the 223/5.56 failure to fire ammo that I find has a lite firing pin indention, probably from a dirty AR. But I don't shoot unknown ammo. Call me paranoid if you want but..........

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+1 here as well.

silveroak said:

Appreciate everyone's replies once again.

Apologies to Geo and Hooda for causing their misunderstanding. Hey, it's me doing not, not either one of you!

But I will tickle this some more for everyone's entertainment

I get it: we are dealing with already dangerous items, by chambering something from the bin, why multiply the risks, especially if the risks can stack to an inappropriate (mistakenly or intentionally hot) load in a weak firearm. Do this enough times and something may/will happen.

But I have to ask you all, reloaders - "my ammo only" line of thought, is that taking it a bit too far?

Think of a field situation (use imagination), or (hope not) an emergency situation.

Would you accept something from a friend or a stranger?

Would you pick up something that sat somewhere for an unknown amount of time, but you had to use it.

Who wouldn't, no?

And if not, what are some of external signs that would prevent you from contemplating use of a common caliber even in a field or an emergency setting.

Comments please

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That would depend on the severity of the situation. Life or death, I would shoot something I KNEW to be dangerously overpressure or otherwise unsafe and count on the safety features of the firearm to hopefully spare me from harm.

If only a signal were required, I'd find a way to remotely trigger and watch the fireworks from a safe distance. I did deliberately burst a single shot .410 with severe rust and multiple unsafe conditions. 30 grains of Red Dot and a 230 grain .45 slug with an obstructed bore was sufficient, and quite spectacular! (another argument for NOT shooting unknown ammo).

In a hunting situation, I would need a pretty high "feel good" factor. Either a reputable loader or signs that it was original factory fodder in serviceable condition. Evidence of severe corrosion and off-gassing of the powder or cold welding of the bullet to case would turn me off quickly. If possible I would pull a sample and inspect internally.

For target shooting, in the case of military surplus ammunition, I'll read others reports of same type of ammo on the internet, hopefully prior to purchase. I will also pulldown and inspect several cartridges before firing, and discontinue if anything is out of place. I turned an embarrasing quantity of 8mm ammo from the 50's into scrap brass, bullets and fertilizer lately as it was showing signs that felt less than warm and fuzzy.

silveroak said:

I thought I'd post here since we do not have a dedicated ammunition umbrella.

This is on a lighter note

I've been finding myself going through the failure-to-feed, failure-to-fire discard bins at my range.

Never know what may be sitting there. Part curiosity, part demonstrating the visitors with me the calibers we do not shoot or have on hand.
Somehow I feel this is an acceptable and nobler form of garbage bin rummaging. What do you think?

You can easily visualize the difference between 5.56 and .223, or keep an interesting one for research.. and all in between.
As an aside, failures-to-fire that I could chamber that day or another never failed to fire given the second chance. Huh. I eagerly try them. Why not?
I have avoided the really crooked failures-to-feed.
Latest finds are several of Turkish 7.92 Mauser from the 40s (I will try to fire them, I've read they are hot, corrosive and have spotty reliability) and a 7.62x54R silvertip that is just asking for country and date of origin research.

A an incendiary and provocative question for the ammunition experts here

Could you think of calibers found in the discard bin that from the looks could lead you to a snap mistake of believing you can chamber and fire it that day or next in one of your firearms - and in reality are not compatible, but may chamber without alarming you, or, worse, fire, potentially creating a hazard.

Please list the dangerously-close-but-incompatible calibers and, respectively, chambers you own!

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I would take all that is allowed and re-purpose the brass, either reload it or sell as scrap.

silveroak said:

But I have to ask you all, reloaders - "my ammo only" line of thought, is that taking it a bit too far?

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In short, no.
When you reload, you start learning about all the little things that must be taken into account that impact both performance and safety. You also learn how small the tolerances are. When you’re picking up a random round out of a bucket or off a table, you know absolutely nothing about it. You don’t know the powder, pressures, bullet weight / construction, length, expected velocity, and as mentioned sometimes even the head stamp can be either misleading or downright wrong (see .300 Blk loaded in cut down .223 casings - it will chamber in a .223 and result in the spontaneous disassembly of the rifle).

For example, it is very common for reloaders to deviate from the exact SAAMI dimensions regarding length. When developing an accuracy load for a rifle, you’ll tailor the load to that specific rifle’s chamber (and barrel length, twist, etc, but for illusion purposes I’ll only talk about one of these - distance to the lands of the barrel).

Most factory rifle chambers are designed with a bit of space between the minimum of where the lands CAN start vs where they actually do start. This is generally a safety measure because as the distance between the bullet (in the chambered but unfired cartridge) decreases, pressure can increase. You usually only have issues when the bullet is in contact with the lands (and sometimes not even then) but there is usually a large jump in a factory rifle chamber.

So when developing a load, reloaders will measure the distance to the lands of that specific chamber with the exact type of bullet they’ll be firing (because a different bullet shape could mean a different overall length). Then the ammo is loaded so that the bullet is a specific distance from the lands. Usually somewhere between ten and twenty thousandths of an inch from the lands.

The problem is that in a different gun the lands could easily be at a different depth due to manufacturing tolerances (think tool wear, etc, or just choices made by different companies), and if the bullet is pressed into the lands prior to firing, pressures will increase. So you could have a hot round that is correctly loaded and safe for one rifle that could be unsafe in another rifle due to chamber dimensions and pressure changes.

Normally I wouldn’t expect this to be a “blow up the gun” level of pressure increase, but it’s not good for the gun and there’s a slim chance that the stars could align and it could be bad for the shooter.



To give you an idea how different the overall lengths can be from a SAAMI spec round vs a round that is designed to have minimal jump to the lands - I have several rifles where the magazine length is the limiting factor. IE a round that is correctly set up for distance to lands is actually too long to fit in the gun’s magazine.



Anyway, that’s an example of one factor in shooting other people’s reloads, in addition to the many that have been posted above.

I have a VERY short list of people whose reloads I would shoot, and usually it would be shot out of one of their guns because the load is tuned for that specific gun.

I am another guy who will not shoot randomly found cartridges in my guns. IMHO there is a reason that round has been discarded, so I prefer not to be the guinea pig who touches off random 30-60k psi cartridges an inch past my nose. Lord forbid some jackhole purposely overloads a round and tosses it on the ground to be “funny”. IMHO, that’s an intentional act of sabotage that could be permanently disfiguring or even fatal.

Others may see no problem with picking up discards and shooting them. IMHO, its your gun, your fingers, your face. What you do with them is entirely up to you.

OP, hopefully someday you will start reloading. It is a satisfying hobby that starts with a desired outcome, then blends a lot of physics, geometry, and other sciences with your attention to detail. The goal is to create safe load(s) that meet your desires. Its not true rocket science, but lax practices or inattention can easily result in ugliness to your guns or extremities.

I have been asked to load cartridges for others. I recall one was a .44 Special load a friend needed for his CCW qual, .44 Spl was nowhere to be found so I put together a nice target load and he qualified.

Another loading request I literally just completed. A buddy bought a sweet S&W 52-2 that he wasn’t able to source .38 Spl target wadcutter loads to feed it. I just completed a batch of 2.8 gr Bullseye and a lead WC for him. (That is a special gun, load charges were double-weighed on two scales to ensure more consistency.)



Stay safe.