These cartridges would not fire.

aaaaa said:
And to think Brand X advertises these with CCI as Cowboy Action rounds
Click to expand...

I think it's because of the Power Factor (bullet mass x speed) of the round itself. A 105gr bullet going 650-ish fps has a Power Factor of 68. I can't see getting much lower than that for a .38 load. When I was shooting IDPA matches, my .38 loads were 125-ish, and those were considered soft "gamer" loads.
 
aaaaa said:
So the 442-1 that did not try the Brand X yet, shot the pencil out first try, though only cleared the barrel by an inch or two. That is with a new unsharpened pencil, lead side to the firing pin and eraser up. For the 442-2 it did not clear the barrel and I tried it about 6-8 times and finally the pencil cleared the barrel, but not by as much as the 442-1.

Guess I need to take a pencil to the gun shop every time I shop a gun.
Click to expand...
I was doing it eraser down. It was hard enough to find a #2 lead pencil, let alone an unsharpened one. :)
 
With a cylinder open and the cylinder catch held back, dry fire your gun and hold the trigger back all the way do not release the trigger. Now take a dime and place it on the recoil shield and your firing pin should noticeably be higher than the dime.
 
aaaaa said:
Its the gun. Range report coming tonight (probably after 10 pm). Short story the 442-1 ran the Brand X just fine for 20 rounds and another 10 that did not fire in the 442-2.

Brand X, now that we know it is not bad ammo but the gun. This is the ammo I used:
choiceammunition.com

.38 Special 105 Grain TCFP BLACK Hi-Tek Coated Lead "Cowboy Choice" w/CCI PRIMERS~100% HAND LOADED!!

.38 Special 105 Grain TCFP BLACK Hi-Tek Coated Lead "Cowboy Choice" w/CCI PRIMERS~100% HAND LOADED!!
choiceammunition.com choiceammunition.com
Click to expand...
Thank you. I haven’t heard of that ammo company.
105 grains at 650 FPS. Light load. Nice target and plinking round, I’m sure.
 
Sounds like then someone messed with the trigger being lazy and trying to get it lighter.

You do realize, the way you fix that, beyond installing a factory set of springs, has nothing to do with the springs, right? ;)

You just need to feed the finger on the port side of your right hand (you are right handed, eh? Go to starboard if you ain't. :)) "you're #1 finger" some Wheaties and a daily trigger pulling regimen. 😁
 
So the 442-2 fired the PMC and NORMA fine. The one in the middle is the Choice Ammunition round that did NOT fire. Considering that there appears to be good pin depth in the two fired cases, I don't think the firing pin is the problem even though it does not pass the dime test but comes up a little short of the width of a dime (in both guns).
1709788442827.png

Anyway, I ran Winchester White Box (WWB) 130 grain FMJ, PMC 132 grain FMJ, Norma 158 grain FMJ, and the Choice Ammunition 105 grain coated lead.

The 442-1 (no lock) ran 20 rounds of Choice, 10 rounds of WWB, 5 rounds of PMC and 5 rounds of NORMA with zero failure to fire. The 442-1 also fired flawlessly 10 of the Choice rounds that failed to fire in the 442-2.

The 442-2 (w/lock) ran 20 rounds of Choice, 10 rounds WWB, 10 PMC and 10 NORMA. It had over 50% failure to fire with Choice and 1 round of the WWB failed to fire (should have saved it for the above photo). All the PMC and NORMA rounds ran fine in the 442-2.

As for the 6 rounds of Choice in the image I posted at the start of this thread, i ran them in the Bond Arms derringer and they all fired fine. Since the Bond barrel is a .38/.357 I could not help firing a couple rounds of Federal 158 grain jacketed soft point .357 Magnums in it and they were brutal. I have the larger grip and it was intense, but fun.

Since the 442-2 is not my carry gun, this is not a huge issue, but I still would like to get it fixed. I am thinking the simplest way to fix it would be to remove the grip and put a shim on the rod with the main spring to slightly compress the main spring for a bit more tension to throw a harder strike. Seems this would be a pretty easy fix with a washer between the main spring (41) and the pivot (42) without having to remove the side plate.
1709789683983.png
Image from:
www.midwestgunworks.com

Smith & Wesson J Frame (Small Frame)

Parts listed here are specific to Smith & Wesson J Frame revolver models chambered in .357 Mag, .38 Special, .22 LR, 9mm or other calibers unless noted otherwise. MGW carries replacement cylinders, barrels, grips, hammers, pins, springs and other small parts for this small frame handgun which...
www.midwestgunworks.com www.midwestgunworks.com
 
It's been a minute since I detailed a 642, but If I ain't mistaken, the hammer strut will come out of the gun once you capture the spring without removing the side plate. I may be mistaken and it may have been that it "almost" comes out. If it won't come out without removing the side plate, again, best I recall, you don't need to do anything else to remove the strut/spring/cup once the spring is captured.

You could swap spring/strut between them easy enough, if they will come out without removing the side plates.

You need to replace the spring regardless though. Shimming it will do nothing to make it hit harder, as it's the pound weight of the spring, and not how much compression it has that is the deciding factor in its hitting force.
 
Bazoo said:
You need to replace the spring regardless though. Shimming it will do nothing to make it hit harder, as it's the pound weight of the spring, and not how much compression it has that is the deciding factor in its hitting force.
Click to expand...
Doubt anyone makes a spring that is stiffer than stock since most want a lighter spring. But why wouldn't shimming help? On a leaf main spring you can stiffen it with the adjusting screw and that works. Different kind of spring and I am not an engineer but seems a tigher packed coil spring would exert more force. Can't hurt to try.
 
Call S&W, I think they will take care of it. I had a used M&P-22 that was nothing but trouble. They sent me a label and though it took two tries, they got it right on the third and sent me a new gun.

Phone call is free. :)
 
trackskippy said:
Call S&W, I think they will take care of it. I had a used M&P-22 that was nothing but trouble. They sent me a label and though it took two tries, they got it right on the third and sent me a new gun.

Phone call is free. :)
Click to expand...
They are sending me a return label for Fedex! I told the rep about the pencil tests and he asked if I want to send both guns back in, but I said I would rather do them sequentially as one is a carry gun. We'll see what comes of it.

So, when they return the gun to me does it have to go through a FFL? I am surprised I can even ship it, but I guess since I am not selling the gun, just sending it for repairs, it is different.

Thanks everyone for the help and I learned a few things.
 
aaaaa said:
I took 10 rounds of this brand X ammo to the range (among other stuff) and ran them in my S&W 442-2 (with lock). Of the 10 rounds 6 would not fire, even though I tried to fire them 2 or 3 times. I ran the same brand X ammo in the Bond Derringer .44 Special with no misfires out of 10 rounds.

From the image below, does it looks like the gun's firing pin was doing its job? Note that I also ran about 40 rounds of Winchester white box through the gun and did experience two misfires but those fired on the second try.

I plan to go back and see if these six will fire in my 442-1 (no lock). If they don't fire in the 442-1 I will try them in my Bond Arms derringer .38 Special barrel.


View attachment 1197905

One lesson from the range session is that while my dry firing has been encouraging, at the range it was not so good. I could get some tight groups at 5 yards but only with a lot of concentration--something one does not necessarily have in a SD event.
Click to expand...
Starline brass. Buffalo Bore?

Looks like light primer strike. Have you messed with or changed the hammer spring?
 
aaaaa said:
They are sending me a return label for Fedex! I told the rep about the pencil tests and he asked if I want to send both guns back in, but I said I would rather do them sequentially as one is a carry gun. We'll see what comes of it.

So, when they return the gun to me does it have to go through a FFL? I am surprised I can even ship it, but I guess since I am not selling the gun, just sending it for repairs, it is different.

Thanks everyone for the help and I learned a few things.
Click to expand...
Depends on where you live and the circumstances I guess. The first time my rifle went back it came back to me. The second time, when they replaced it with a new gun, they sent it to my dealer and said they would pay for any transfer, which I didn't have/wasnt charged.

The first time I dealt with them, about 30 years ago, I sent a handgun back to them, and again, it took them a couple of tries to get it right, but that time, when they sent me a new gun, different serial number, on the second try, it came right back to me, and not a dealer, which kind of surprised me.
 
aaaaa said:
I took 10 rounds of this brand X ammo to the range (among other stuff) and ran them in my S&W 442-2 (with lock). Of the 10 rounds 6 would not fire, even though I tried to fire them 2 or 3 times. I ran the same brand X ammo in the Bond Derringer .44 Special with no misfires out of 10 rounds.

From the image below, does it looks like the gun's firing pin was doing its job? Note that I also ran about 40 rounds of Winchester white box through the gun and did experience two misfires but those fired on the second try.

I plan to go back and see if these six will fire in my 442-1 (no lock). If they don't fire in the 442-1 I will try them in my Bond Arms derringer .38 Special barrel.


View attachment 1197905

One lesson from the range session is that while my dry firing has been encouraging, at the range it was not so good. I could get some tight groups at 5 yards but only with a lot of concentration--something one does not necessarily have in a SD event.
Click to expand...
Perhaps I missed something, but, those do not appear to be CCI primers as stated in the ammo company's add[this page]. Those look to possibly be Win or Remington primers.
 
aaaaa said:
Doubt anyone makes a spring that is stiffer than stock since most want a lighter spring. But why wouldn't shimming help? On a leaf main spring you can stiffen it with the adjusting screw and that works. Different kind of spring and I am not an engineer but seems a tigher packed coil spring would exert more force. Can't hurt to try.
Click to expand...
As far as I know, the tension screw on flat spring guns is NOT an adjustment. It should be turned all the way in.
If a light pull is required a lighter spring should be installed.
 
kerreckt said:
Hit them harder, looks like light strikes.
Click to expand...
lee n. field said:
Looks like light primer strike
Click to expand...

As mentioned earlier, a light primer dent just indicates the round didn't go off. Could be a primer issue or a gun issue. Either way, it doesn't mean much more than the round didn't go bang.

aaaaa said:
I told the rep about the pencil tests and he asked if I want to send both guns back in, but I said I would rather do them sequentially as one is a carry gun
Click to expand...

Something about the pencil test: Often, it's done with a cocked full-sized revolver. Your 442 is DAO, and a double action hammer gains less speed than a hammer falling from its cocked position. On top of that, the J-frame hammer is shorter, so the linear velocity where it contacts the firing pin will be slower as well. Bottom line, I wouldn't expect the pencil to come flying out of the barrel like it would in JM's video, even if the gun is fine. You mentioned, though, that your pencil test indicated the 442 which has trouble with Brand X has less oompf than the other, so that's the one I'd send in if you're going to go that route.
 
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