Spitzer bullets in tubular magazines

Usually recommended against for fear of gang firing.
Hornady makes bullets with pointed rubber nose inserts for the purpose.
It is not going to matter much at Model 94 ranges, I have not even shot my 788 at long enough ranges for it to matter much, although a .30-30 loaded with a 173 gr military match bullet looks Kewl.

All of the recommendations that you hear say not to. I've always loaded flat nose bullets in my Model 94 for that reason. It would be interesting to see this tested but not in my rifle!

There are those who laugh at us for avoiding pointed bullets in tubular magazines. Let ‘em. I won’t do it. I quit playing with fire at about age seven. 71 years ago.

If you really want to do it, chamber one and put one in the tube. Lowers capacity to 2, but you can do some testing that way if you're inclined. Doing it that way keeps any pointy bullets from hitting another primer.

I would not risk my health or my lever guns for such an experiment. Others may want to, and that’s their prerogative.

Look up Hornady FTX bullets. They load easy, shoot good and come in lots of factory ammo options if you don’t reload. No need to chance a potentially life altering failure if rounds in the magazine fire when a lever gun is being fired with hard spitzer bullets loaded up.


Stay safe.

As said above, you can experiment with pointed bullets in the tube if you only load one in the mag and one in the chamber. There’s been discussion about whether the recoil of a 30-30 really could jar the rounds enough for a bullet to set a primer off, but it also involves the back and forth movement of the cartridges and all their mass under spring pressure. I’d advise against it.

Hornady also has FTX available in a loaded ammunition line:

Only the French made it work. Their 8mm level cartridges had a circular groove in the bullet point would rest in. Other than leveroultion Hornady cartridges I would not underwrite your life insurance if you tried to do it

The Remington 141 used a spiral shaped magazine tube to offset the pointed noses. Having said that, I only ever shot one in 35 Remington and they were jacketed RN’s anyway.

What little experience I have with the 30-30 came long before Hornady came out with their pointed bullet that is "supposed" to be safe. I never saw much advantage to it with 30-30 ballistics although they might give you just a bit more distance. I didn't carry one deer hunting for very long because of some of the distances involved.

All I can say about the polymer tipped pointed bullets is to try them at your own risk. Flat points are long proven safe.

The chances of a problem with pointed bullets in a tube mag are slim, but not zero. I wouldn't do it for a couple or reasons.

#1: There is a possibility of a dangerous situation.

#2: You don't gain enough to be worth the risk.

Cartridges such as 30-30, 35 Rem, 44 mag, 357 mag and 45-70 just don't gain much ballistic advantage with pointed bullets. We're talking real world MV of 2000-2200 fps at most. At 2800+ fps pointed bullets start making a difference.

Hornady uses some deceptive advertising to claim that their rubber pointed bullets shoot flatter. For one thing they show those bullets with a bit faster MV than standard loads. Then they zero them at 200 yards which APPEARS to show very little drop at 300 yards. All of the traditional loads are a bit slower and zeroed at 100 yards

But if you took a conventional RN bullet of the same weight, loaded it to the same speed and zeroed at 200 yards there is VERY little difference in trajectory at 300 yards.

The REAL advantage of the pointed bullets isn't flatter trajectory, but more impact speed. That is something, but it still doesn't make a 30-30 a good choice beyond 200 yards. Regardless of bullet shape.

A gunzine writer once took the risk of showing how little difference bullet style made at 200 yards.

Even some round nose bullets have caused chain fires in tubular magazines, and a spitzer would be even more likely to do so!
In the 1882 the US Army tested a number of rifles, one of which was the 1881 Marlin chambered in .45-70 Govt. The Marlin factory used a .45-70 case with small primer pockets classified as the ".45-70 Marlin" and built by UMC for small rifle primers. When submitted to the Army for the 1882 Trials Marlin specified they use the Marlin ammo, but Winchester supplied all the ammo and ignored Marlin's specs. The 1881 worked flawlessly even with large rifle primers until a couple thousand rounds were fired when suddenly the trials rifle had a chain fire in the magazine tube. At that point Marlin officials looked the rifle over and discovered the large primers, but the Army simply rejected the Model 1881 Marlin due to the failure, regardless.

All good answers so far. One other thing you will find is with spitzer bullets is that when seated to the correct over all length for the cartridge the ogive is inside the case mouth a little unless you use a very light weight bullet. Another thing is that most spitzers are made to perform at higher velocities and may not expand on impact.

Will it really set off the primers of the round ahead of it in the magazine? Maybe, maybe not. Once I did an experiment by taking a 30 caliber spitzer bullet and a primed 30-30 case and tried to set the primer off. I drilled a hole in my workbench so I could drop the case in and then holding the bullet with pliers I hammered the nose of that pointed bullet flat and never set the primer off. Then I loaded the case in my gun and set the primer off to make sure the primer wasn't dead.

So do it at your own risk but if you need longer range get a different gun and round. If you like long range lever actions look at the Henry Long Ranger or a Browning BLR. Those a box magazine fed and shoot rounds like the 243, 308 and 358 Winchester and of course use all the pointy bullets you want.

I'd just chamber anything pointy by hand as one offs.

ThomasT said:

So do it at your own risk but if you need longer range get a different gun and round. If you like long range lever actions look at the Henry Long Ranger or a Browning BLR. Those a box magazine fed and shoot rounds like the 243, 308 and 358 Winchester and of course use all the pointy bullets you want.

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The 2024 is the year for unconventional lever actions with box magazines. Bond LVRB, Henry Supreme, and FightLite Herring just off the top of my head (the 2023 POF is chambered in 9mm, so it does not count as a real rifle). Henry in particular already offered HLR, which you mentioned, but the Supreme is a completely clean-sheet design. In addition to those, Winchester keeps 1895 in production, technically speaking.

aandrews said:

Is it safe to fire high-recoil Spitzer bullets in a rifle with a tubular magazine, like the Model 94? Would a soft nose Spitzer (assuming there is such a thing) be markedly safer?

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They might not feed and if seated normally a spitzer bullet might be over length for the cartridge specification.

There are more soft nose Spitzer (spire point) bullets than I can name, and none of them should end up in a tubular magazine like the Model 94... unless you're hunting with one in the chamber and one in the magazine.

Conventional wisdom should prevail here. The conventional wisdom in this case was likely established when some poor sap lost both eyes and several digits after loading Spitzers into a tubular magazine, and pulling the trigger. Don't be that guy.

Hornady Lever Evolution ammo pretty much solves this problem and if you sight in at 200 yds with it you can surely hunt with your 30-30 to that range with desired effect

Sure you can. Just load them backwards.

I exclusively use Hornady Leverevolution in my Marlin 336 stainless .30-30. No issues with a full tube while firing. Don't want to push my luck with metal Spitzer on primer.

In my old 94 I used hornady CX with a polymer tip,110 grains weight around 2700 fps mv, I also use 130 Barnes ttsx.
Perhaps it's worth reflecting on what sarge 7402 commented about the french making spitzers in tubular magazines work, their patent relied implicitly on gravity.
Gravity works 24/7 and hereabouts are some images of such arrangements of spitzers in tubular mags responding to gravity.
These are 30/30 160 grain ftx loads, laying in a shallow V scale rule.
I wonder where flat pointed factory ammo lies, hereabouts are some factory winchester 150 grain flat points.

Guns are not always horizontal. There are plenty of opportunities for mischief. I am skeptical of primers being ignited and at the same time I also do my best to refrain from tempting fate. I would not load pointy bullets in a lever gun tubular magazine with the current exception of the made for tubular magazine Hornady LR ammo with the 165FTX bullet.

Do this simple test, from your usual shooting position over short grass, jack a live round through a cycle and eject it. Then do the same thing with a fired round.
The heaviest part lands first. Similar situation occurs in the mag, bullet follows gravity. BTW reason I said over grass was you'll find the live round pdq not so the fired one, it demonstrates the physics of the phenomena.
Gun may not be horizontal don't matter. Gravity is unidirectional and,in this case, spring assisted ie the magazine spring exerts a force that is generally adequate to maintain the cartridges in the position they were loaded in. In my case this would be bullets pointing to the left as I load the gun with mag port pointing upward. Probably the only time when it's possible that the spire point contacts the primer is when the gun is either pointing vertically upward or downward. Can't recall the last time, in peacetime, I've seen a gun fired in either of those directions.
I normally shoot cast bullets with a flat point and don't normally load more than 3 rounds in the gun unless there are hostiles around as there's no real need even when out hunting.
But you can do what you want with your property, I was merely pointing out it may not be as cut and dried as the flat earthers would have us accept.