Loading Flat Bottom Bullets in .223 Cases

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Barmcd

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I've been using bulk M193 bullets since I started reloading .223 Remington. They are boat-tailed so they sit in the chamfered mouth of the case for bullet seating. On a whim I bought a couple hundred 55 gr. Hornady V-Max bullets that have a flat bottom. They don't sit in the case mouth at all so I have to guide them into the bullet seating die with my fingers. Is that the way its normally done with these bullets?

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The base of the bullet doesn't slowly open the case like a bowtail. It will be much more dramatic, nothing, nothing and pop your seating and the resistance drops off a cliff. I like flat base bullets for the near ranges I currently have available, but the process feels much different....
 
The 53 Vmax has a boat tail and a little better BC, in case you want a varmint bullet that is easier to seat. I have not tried an accuracy comparison between it and the 50 Vmax, but theoretically, a flat base bullet will be more accurate.
 
MarshallDodge said:
The 53 Vmax has a boat tail and a little better BC, in case you want a varmint bullet that is easier to seat. I have not tried an accuracy comparison between it and the 50 Vmax, but theoretically, a flat base bullet will be more accurate.
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Thanks for that info, this was an impulse buy and I normally shoot 55 gr so that's what I picked up. I didn't even think about them not being boattails.
 
I chamfer the brass regardless. I've not found flat base bullets significantly harder to load than boat tails.

In theory flat base bullets are supposed to be more accurate although it would take someone with better equipment and more skills than I have for it to matter. Boat tail bullets shoot a little flatter and and retain velocity better at long range. That can make a difference in POI, but not in accuracy.
 
Walkalong said:
I don’t load any rifle brass for any caliber or bullet without chamfering and deburring the cases.
Click to expand...
Me neither, but now that I do most of it on progressives with 6 (Pro 6000) or 7 (Pro Chucker 7) stations, I add an "M" expander having the extra station, just before the powder drop, which means each case is given a square stable pocket for the bullet, flat based or boat tailed, into which my bullet feeder drops and sticks them square and true every time.....so then, when the progressive quickly swings to the seating station, the bullet is still exactly where I want it be.....so most any seater, seats straight and true. I tested just one bullet, because I wanted to see if the RCBS feeder required a bullet "stack" to push them in enough..........it didn't. One stuck just fine......not that common in bullet feed dies.

The video below shows one of several possible "M" die solutions, this one using RCBS's rifle tube feeder with it's included "M" die typically used in station 2. The video test below shows a single bullet drop in the already "M"die expanded "pocket". As you can see it's straight and true, and not about to tip on it's way to the seater, on any progressive merry-go-round....pretty darned sturdy....


Kaldor said:
Im gonna buck the system here: Lyman M-die and Lee FCD to remove the light flare!! Well thats how I do it on a progressive ...........
Click to expand...
Another....the original "M" idea......and yes of course a taper crimper to finish. "M" pockets taper crimp just fine with RCBS taper crimp dies too.
I never thought I'd use so many stations on a progressive for rifle......then came the "M" dies.

1-size; 2-"M" expand/prime; 3-charge; 4-powder cop; 5-bullet feed; 6-seat (or seat/crimp) 7-crimp.
 
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AJC1 said:
The base of the bullet doesn't slowly open the case like a bowtail. It will be much more dramatic, nothing, nothing and pop your seating and the resistance drops off a cliff. I like flat base bullets for the near ranges I currently have available, but the process feels much different....
Click to expand...
That's a good description of the feeling you get when seating the flat bottom V-Max. It's not progressive at all, just a feeling like the bottom fell out.
 
GW Staar said:
Me neither, but now that I do most of it on progressives with 6 (Pro 6000) or 7 (Pro Chucker 7) stations, I add an "M" expander having the extra station, just before the powder drop, which means each case is given a square stable pocket for the bullet, flat based or boat tailed, into which my bullet feeder drops and sticks them square and true every time.....so then, when the progressive quickly swings to the seating station, the bullet is still exactly where I want it be.....so most any seater, seats straight and true. I tested just one bullet, because I wanted to see if the RCBS feeder required a bullet "stack" to push them in enough..........it didn't. One stuck just fine......not that common in bullet feed dies.

The video below shows one of several possible "M" die solutions, this one using RCBS's rifle tube feeder with it's included "M" die typically used in station 2. The video test below shows a single bullet drop in the already "M"die expanded "pocket". As you can see it's straight and true, and not about to tip on it's way to the seater, on any progressive merry-go-round....pretty darned sturdy....



Another....the original "M" idea......and yes of course a taper crimper to finish. "M" pockets taper crimp just fine with RCBS taper crimp dies too.
I never thought I'd use so many stations on a progressive for rifle......then came the "M" dies.

1-size/deprime; 2-"M" expand; 3-charge; 4-powder cop; 5-bullet feed; 6-seat (or seat/crimp) 7-crimp.
Click to expand...


I use 5 stations for rifle
M-die
Powder
Bullet feeder
Seater
Crimper

Not sure I'd want to try going straight from size/deprime directly to loading without knowing my brass length is good. Maybe could do it with brass that's been run thru an X-die I guess.
 
I have a VLD expander that I use after I ream the inside of the neck. I open it just enough that the bullet will enter the mouth. Then I set the seater so that it removes any mouth expantion when seating the bullet. I feel doing it that way makes the bullet more concentric when seating flat base rifle bullets.
 
jmr40 said:
I chamfer the brass regardless. I've not found flat base bullets significantly harder to load than boat tails.

In theory flat base bullets are supposed to be more accurate although it would take someone with better equipment and more skills than I have for it to matter. Boat tail bullets shoot a little flatter and and retain velocity better at long range. That can make a difference in POI, but not in accuracy.
Click to expand...
Chamfering works well for me - I use a lot of the 55gr Hornaday bullets.
 
I load a lot of Speer 55 SP for my general purpose carbine load. Everything from crows to coke cans to coyotes. VERY forgiving bullet, which is important to me here as I'm generally using mixed brass with the exception of 50 same stamp I'll pull out of rotation for coyote service each fall. Also usually using up an odd lot of powder leftover from experiments or shortage substitute standards. H335 is my standard for this bullet, finally loaded some this winter after 3 years of using up odds and ends LOL. I've found the FB Vmaxs to be just as forgiving, but much more expensive. I'm not trying to shoot itty bitty groups here, simply "good enough" accuracy from a cheap carbine and a well worn bolt gun.

As above, chamfered cases. I ride them into the die, then a little soft bumpwiggle at the top, you can feel them start, then a smooth pull to finish. Feels a bit like a split neck if you're not used to it LOL.

I load a lot of FB bullets in other calibers. I find them more forgiving of random loads and worn rifling/generous chamber dimensions and brass FL sized to work across multiple rifles.
 
Kaldor said:
I use 5 stations for rifle
M-die
Powder
Bullet feeder
Seater
Crimper

Not sure I'd want to try going straight from size/deprime directly to loading without knowing my brass length is good. Maybe could do it with brass that's been run thru an X-die I guess.
Click to expand...
Doh......I should have proof read that post. Thanks for catching that! first station should have read 1-size......(but not deprime). 2nd station should have read M die/prime. I fixed it.

To clarify....all my rifle brass is deprimed on a Lee APP with a universal deprimer die lickety split using an electric collator, then I wet tumble with pins, and trim with my Forster Trimmer with its 3-way cutter, Trim Mate then uniforms primer pockets.

On the progressive, I only size in station 1 (with depriming/expander plug REMOVED) ; then in station two, I M-die expand on the downstoke and prime in the upstroke.

You obviously size and deprime the conventional way, trim, and then go to the progressive with prepped AND sized brass....and 5 stations then work just fine as long as you powder check by eyeball, or video camera.
 
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GW Staar said:
Doh......I should have proof read that post. Thanks for catching that! first station should have read 1-size......(but not deprime). 2nd station should have read M die/prime. I fixed it.

To clarify....all my rifle brass is deprimed on a Lee APP with a universal deprimer die lickety split using an electric collator, then I wet tumble with pins, and trim with my Trim Mate.

On the progressive, I only size in station 1 (with depriming/expander plug REMOVED) ; then in station two, I M-die expand on the downstoke and prime in the upstroke.

You obviously size and deprime the conventional way, trim, and then go to the progressive with prepped AND sized brass....and 5 stations then work just fine as long as you powder check by eyeball, or video camera.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I actually handle it 4 times. Just found it to the be the fastest way for me, but Ive but a ton of effort into streamlining the process to fact it fast and efficient.
I use APP to decap because its stupid fast with a case feeder. I dont like dumping dirty brass into my LnL anymore, just makes keeping the LnL running without issues easier.
Anneal everything! Precisely why I setup my AGS annealer to handle dual torches and a case feeder.
Size and trim with RT1500 on my LnL. Universal decapper in 1 in case I missed a case in the APP, sizer in 2 to bump 1/2 the distance, trimmer in 4 to finish the remaining sizing. Ive found 2 sizing dies balances the press deck, less flex, and gets me more consistent sizing with less of a workout on my arm. Especially important on 308.
SSTL tumble, which also deburrs and chamfers well enough for stuff Im gonna load on my LnL for my ARs.
Then load as usual, but I use the M-die in station one to set final neck dimensions like its a mandrel, and give it a slight flare, right before I seat the bullets.

Anywho, thats the long version.

For anything else? I use a Lyman VLD chamfer tool in my case prep center.
 
Kaldor said:
Yeah, I actually handle it 4 times. Just found it to the be the fastest way for me, but Ive but a ton of effort into streamlining the process to fact it fast and efficient.
I use APP to decap because its stupid fast with a case feeder. I dont like dumping dirty brass into my LnL anymore, just makes keeping the LnL running without issues easier.
Anneal everything! Precisely why I setup my AGS annealer to handle dual torches and a case feeder.
Size and trim with RT1500 on my LnL. Universal decapper in 1 in case I missed a case in the APP, sizer in 2 to bump 1/2 the distance, trimmer in 4 to finish the remaining sizing. Ive found 2 sizing dies balances the press deck, less flex, and gets me more consistent sizing with less of a workout on my arm. Especially important on 308.
SSTL tumble, which also deburrs and chamfers well enough for stuff Im gonna load on my LnL for my ARs.
Then load as usual, but I use the M-die in station one to set final neck dimensions like its a mandrel, and give it a slight flare, right before I seat the bullets.

Anywho, thats the long version.

For anything else? I use a Lyman VLD chamfer tool in my case prep center.
Click to expand...
Not too far different from me. In my last post I mentioned my Trim Mate and meant my Forster Trimmer.....geeze going senile I guess. I had to change that one too. I do use a Trim Mate but not for trimming.....just primer pocket uniforming and swaging if needed. Sorry for the mistake. It was midnight.....and after a long day on the road. :)

What I meant to say was, "...and trim with my Forster Trimmer with its 3-way cutter, Trim Mate then uniforms primer pockets.
 
GW Staar said:
Not too far different from me. In my last post I mentioned my Trim Mate and meant my Forster Trimmer.....geeze going senile I guess. I had to change that one too. I do use a Trim Mate but not for trimming.....just primer pocket uniforming and swaging if needed. Sorry for the mistake. It was midnight.....and after a long day on the road. :)

What I meant to say was, "...and trim with my Forster Trimmer with its 3-way cutter, Trim Mate then uniforms primer pockets.
Click to expand...
I love that Forster 3 in 1 cutter. I need a couple more, wish they weren't $90 each!
 
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