First Long-gun?

TMM · Jun 10, 2005

Hey Guys.

it's 3 more years until i'm 18 and i can be able to get a gun liscence and buy long guns. i'm wondering what would be a good first-buy. grampa's got 4 bolt-actions, so that's[bolt-actions] out. i'm thinking an autochucker of some kind. maybe a carbine of some sort, or possibly a Garand if i can find a cheap enough one. what would you choose? i'm thinking of maybe a 9mm carbine, which would be good for plinking and HD. Or, i could get a 5.56 NATO/.223 rem. of some sort. price should be, maybe, $400 or less. what would you suggest? Bolt actions are nice, but not an end-all. grampa just dosn't like autochuckers, he thinks they're unsafe...

~TMM

Dionysusigma · Jun 10, 2005

Ruger 10/22, bone-stock version. Get good with it, and then move on from there. It isn't fancy, but you can customize it later on to your heart's content.

I'd save the centerfires for a little later--.22 is cheap, low-recoiling, not too loud, and you'll've learned just about everything you need to know to use larger, more powerful stuff. People don't learn thermodynamics before addition, they don't take graduate-level courses before their freshman year of high school, and most of us here on THR learned on BB guns or .22s before we were given our first "real" rifle.

I learned how to shoot on a junky POS Marksman BB pistol I bought from Wal-Mart for twenty bucks. After that, a Marlin 60. Then I bought a SAR-1 (AK) and learned how to bump-fire :evil:

But start small, and start soon. See if you can talk your parents or grampa into getting you a 10-22. They might just be up for it, since it doesn't look "evil" and it's "just a .22".

KriegHund · Jun 10, 2005

I got a Mini-14 Rancher.

10/22 is an excellent option, becuase the ammo is so darned cheap.

It almost, repeat almost, makes me wish i had gotten the 10/22 instead of the mini. I probably would have had i not shotten a variety of calibres before i actually got the mini.

Ide just go with what feels right. If something doesnt feel right, dont get it becuase you (probably) wont end up liking it.

If your wanting larger calibre i'd get an SKS. Cheap ammo, cheap gun, but reliable and common.

ocabj · Jun 10, 2005

Get yourself a Garand from the CMP. I only hope for you that the CMP will have Garands left in 3 years. Maybe give your cash to your parents to buy one for you now.

longrifleman · Jun 10, 2005

Grandpa will approve of a nice lever gun. So will you after you use one for a while.

You can even get one with a black plastic stock so you can be "tactical".

We have so many choices today that this isn't going to be an easy decision, but what a fun problem to have. I would suggest that you think about the main purpose for the rifle and narrow the search a little that way. Your first wish list covers such a large area all you are going to get for suggestions are what WE want.

I went through the semi-auto phase and found out that my shooting skills (such as they are) suffered. Learn to shoot with the idea that you are only going to get one shot and I think you will appreciate it later on. From that perspective a lever gun is a good crompromise. Until you try, it is hard to realise how fast you can send lead downrange, but still have excellent accuracy when you need it.

yayarx7 · Jun 10, 2005

10/22

Marlin 60

DPMS A-22 (for the future EBR person.)

Just get a 22. That way you can afford to shoot it even if you are dead broke, like I was at 18, and 21. Anything else might sit and gather dust if ammo is too costly.

nico · Jun 10, 2005

10/22 and/or SKS. Both very reliable and ammo can be had very cheap. 7.62X39 is the cheapest centerfire cartridge, and you could even use it for deer hunting if you wanted to.

Eightball · Jun 10, 2005

I'd recommend an old Mauser as a first rifle. So it's a bolt-action, and you don't like those--hear me out. It will make you learn where to hold a rifle very quickly (that, or your shoulder will hurt for a long while), as well as make you appreciate what it is you're holding. It also gives you a good knockabout rifle to use while you figure out how to properly clean the thing (reading a how-to is one thing, learning from experience is another). You will learn to make each shot count, since there's no semi-auto madness. And they happen to be cool (IMO). But, since you seem to be averse to BA's, I'd also suggest a 10/22--cheap, easy to mod, and fun. I've own one of each, and they both are good "first" long rifles.

TMM · Jun 10, 2005

Hey all. thanks for the replies.

firstly. i don't think i've made myself clear. i like bolt-actions, but grampa already has 4 (.22lr, .22mag, .222, .22 hornet. yea, he likes .22's.) it would be redundant, i guess. i have already shot the .22LR, maybe 175 rounds total, and with "my" Remington i can get 1-2" 3-shot groups at 120 feet. (scoped). i already know the importance of "you only get one shot" mentality. i don't want an autochucker to throw lead dowrange and use it to take bad, but multiple shots at deer.

KreigHund: I kind of overlooked the SKS's, actually. i looked again, and wow, they're cheap! do the ones with the little bit of a clip/magazine sticking out use stripper clips? and i saw others with 20/30 rounds mags, i assume those are removeable. by the way, are you the same Kreighund from theringlord?

ocabj: why are CMP's not, or maybe not going to be around in a few years? what makes them different from some other Garand? and, Garands use 8-round stripper clips, right?

longrifleman: haha, grampa thinks leveractions are inaccurate. :scrutiny:

he says the bolt and everything are not all "in-line and strong" or somthing like that... i think he's living in the past. things have changed and improved. =) i actually like wooden stocks better, but i'll, someday, get a bushmaster or something, and i'll have to get the black stock.
narrow the list? ok, i'll try:
autochucker, cheap ammo, but bit enough for some hunting. MAYBE for HD, if it's like a 9mm or 40s&w carbine. 7.62x39 aint good for HD.

(overpenetration, anyone? :neener:

)
as i said before, i understand that a one-shot kill, or just simple good accuracy is VERY important. i'll still try for good groups, no, i WILL make good groups.

. just don't need to rack a bolt every shot.

eightball: like i said, i don't dislike bolties. they're nice, but a tad slow. not necesary for hunting though, because it should be a one-shot kill. i'll look at Mauser's, tho. i've heard they're very good. maybe not my FIRST rifle, but one of them.

basically, i have no want of a bolt action, because it would be nothing new. i'd want to, uh, learn more about other types of rifles.

i'm looking at a Ruger preban Mini-14... around $400, not too bad. looks real nice too. 5.56 NATO seems like a good round aswell, since i just looked at the new Box O' Truth... man, that's a BIG hole it made...

~TMM

jefnvk · Jun 10, 2005

M1's use an en-bloc, which is different from a stripper clip. The whole unit goes into the internal magazine, where as with a stripper clip, you shove the bullets down and take the clip out.

CMP is a distributor of M1's. They draw straight out of the Military inventory. Lately, many of their grades and manufacturers have been drying up. The service grade is no longer available, which was teh best condition grade you could get. Speculation is that tehy may be running out of rifles to sell. I strongly suggest anyone buying an M1 to go through CMP, especially if you don't know what you are doing. Too many unhonest sellers out there today, who will sell you a reimported CIA M1 (pretty much a new gun with some used parts) as all original, or who sell M1's with shot out barrels, etc. CMP stands behin their product, and if you have problems, they WILL make it right. Their field grades are a good choice, and cost $375. http://www.odcmp.com

I'd go with the .22 suggestion, though. 10/22, Remington 597, Marlin 60, all good choices. LOT more bang for your buck. If you insist on a bigger gun, M1's are a good choice. As are SKS's. Probably not many other non-bolt, non-lever guns for that price.

M99M12 · Jun 10, 2005

Simple question and a simple answer. Remington 341-P Sportmaster. :what:

Hey, it's what I learned on.

To be sober for a minute, any .22 and buy and shoot lots of ammo. Listen and try different ways of shooting. And remember, only hits count.

1911 guy · Jun 11, 2005

Grandpa's bolt guns

If you like the feel of your granddads bolt guns, buy yourself a bolt gun. Don't go with something else simply because it's new, different, cool, tactical, pick an adjective. Go with what feels good. Rifle fit is one of the few times in life you get to do that.

ironfoot · Jun 11, 2005

Your grandfather sounds like a smart guy.
If it was me, I would look for the best .22 rimfire bolt action I could afford, and feed it good ammo.
Check out this site:

http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/

New rifles/calibers bought for their novelty lose their allure fairly quickly.
For general plinking, it is hard to beat a quality .22 rimfire.
The most accurate ones tend to be quality bolt actions.
Your grandfather is right, lever actions tend not to be as accurate as a bolt action. Same with semi-autos. They also tend to be less safe than a bolt action, and require more maintenance.
Whatever you decide, have fun with guns, safely, and treasure that grandfather.

c_yeager · Jun 11, 2005

You've got three years, by then you can just buy laser-guns, dont commit before the plasma technology has come to fruition.

Or you could just get a 10/22 like everyone else.

TMM · Jun 11, 2005

jefnvk: wow, $375! cheap.
so, with the en-block clip, it is inserted into an internal magazine, then, what, pops out when empty?

Ironfoot: not buying for novelty, i'm buying it because it's a great rifle, good caliber, and it's a piece of history!

hmm, seems like alot of you seem to like the 10/22. see, i already have a great .22lr. and 3 other .22 -cals. for my first rifle that i buy myself, i want it to be more... unique. new. get my way of thinking?

~TMM

jefnvk · Jun 11, 2005

Yep, you get the M1 PINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGG! as the empty en-bloc flies out

See the pics for a bit better explination of how the thing goes in there.

And have I mentioned that the M1 is my favorite rifle?

KaceCoyote · Jun 11, 2005

What, not ONE person suggested the Ak?

I'll throw my vote for the Ak-47 family. Cheap ammo, powerful enough to hunt with. Easy to clean and not too bad on the price..

Eightball · Jun 11, 2005

If Unique=Different...

TMM--You said you wanted something unique, as in different than a bolt, but not a rimfire, so probably a semi centerfire. Barring my previous advice, I would look into the CMP Garand (though it uses a relatively strong bullet, .30-06), or an AK once you hit the big 18. Something to suggest in the meantime is to go to a gun show of some sort, and look to your heart's content--maybe get your dad or grandpa to buy you something. I would really suggest an SKS, though, to fit your criteria. It's a semi, it's centerfire, and the cartridge (7.62x39) is the standard AK round, so you would have a good reason to get one of those once you hit 18. Also, SKS's are good quality milsurps, and are relatively cheap (I picked one up today for $100 flat, all matching numbers, even on the stock

). You basically can't go wrong with one, assuming you can bargain at a show. Just my $.02....again.

CB900F · Jun 12, 2005

TMM;

One thing I've noticed nobody else asked; what area of the country are you in & therefore, what game do you propose hunting?

IMO, none of your grampa's guns are suitable for game animals. And since you do have access to his guns, I understand your desire to get a centerfire of reasonable power. It's possible to find used Browning BAR's in .243 & .30-06 & a couple of other calibers, and it's a semi. Whether or not you can find one in your price range may be another thing. The Remington 7400/7600's are either pumps or semi's in good centerfire hunting calibers also.

Note that I'm staying away from the SKS/AK47 idea if game hunting is indeed your primary objective with the gun. Their accuracy, or lack of it, is legendary. It's fairly difficult to mount optics on them. Ammo is cheap, but with good game bullets?, well that's another story. Is your cheap practice ammo going to go to the same P.O.I. as the hunting ammo? Probably not.

900F

TMM · Jun 12, 2005

jenfnvk: thanks for the pics. i had the same basic idea in my head of how it went in. in understand you gotta push it in real fast unless you want your thumb mashed by the bolt?(ow..)

CaceCoyote: i have breifly considered the kalishnikov rifles, however, there's somthing about the look i don't like. however, i'll probably get one sometime or another anyway. =)

Eightball: yea, i'd love a Garand, however it would probably kick hard. an army friend of mine (maybe about ~175-200 pounds) said it "kicked something aweful", or something to that effect. i guess i could make reloads if it really is hard for me to take, but i think i can acclimate. i looked on cheaperthandirt.com, and they had a good deal on .30-06, that had ammo[~370 rnds] en-block clips[~40], bandoliers[8 of them, IIRC], and it came in an ammo can. somewhere areound $90.
SKS's suprise me with thier price. i think an SKS or a Garand will be my first rifle...the ammo is very cheap too. about $60-70 for 500 rnds, IIRC.

CB900F: i'm in CT/east coast. most game here would be deer, then possibly turkey, and squirrel. .30-06 will do more than pre-tenderize squirrel, so deer will be my main animal i guess.
grampa uses his .22mag on deer (.22hornet and .222 are not sighted in, and probably never will be) he does chest shots, but i'd never do anything but a head shot with a .22mag. right behind the ear.
if an SKS makes bad groups, how about garands? actually, i'm staying away from the kalishnikov type rifles for that very reason you stated. and other reasons, but that's beside the point.
about cheap practice ammo vs. hunting ammo, how about handloading? i don't know jack about handloading, but it seems like it could be cheap and good quality...

~TMM

ps...for hunting[deer], what kind of a group should i have, and at what distance? just an approximation, i'm curious.

The Grand Inquisitor · Jun 12, 2005

Everyone who mentioned SKS's and not AK's should be dragged into the street and flogged.

Get an AK. Get *multiple* AK's, especially those in 5.45x39.

The first two are regular AK-74's, and the third is an AK-74U, otherwise known as a Krinkov, a potent little bitch of a rifle.

Magnum88C · Jun 12, 2005

If you live in CT, check out the law before making a shopping list.
IIRC deer hunting in CT is a shotgun-only proposition.
CT also is very liberal, and AKs might be a problem.

If you can hunt deer with a rifle, get a Marlin 336 in .30-30. It's light kicking, powerful enough and is probably the most used deer caliber in the US, rivaled only by the .30'06.

If you can't hunt with a rifle, get yourself a nice combo gun, either a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 with both the 28" barrel that takes choke tubes and the 18.5-20" riot barrel. You'll be able to hunt and defend the homestead just fine.

Eightball · Jun 12, 2005

Flogged?

I resent being flogged

! The reason I suggested the SKS is because they're cheaper than AKs, and they would be good for a first rifle. However, I'm not AK bashing--I have one and love it--I'm just saying that a progression from SKS to AK would work for a beginner with a small budget. But, if you have the $$$ for an AK, they rock--and if you're worried about accuracy, get a Saiga with a long barrel, either in .223, 7.62x39, or .308 (or one of each

). AK accuracy isn't horrendous, it's just that it's less so than many people's "almighty' ARs (which, as everyone knows, are the ultimate rifle

).

esldude · Jun 12, 2005

Okay, you mentioned a carbine, and semi-auto.
A Ruger PC9 is a very nice 9mm carbine, but not what I would choose for deer.

If a lever suits you, a Marlin in .357 mag or .44 mag would be an excellent choice. Small, handy, in your price range. In the .357 you could fire affordable 38 spl. for practice. The 44 mag kicks a bit, though not too terribly. The .357 is a pussycat. The .357 in a Marlin is also quite accurate and adequate for deer. Also a .357 for larger game and 38 spl. for smaller game. A good choice for your specified intentions. Both of these put out heavy bullets at near 2000 fps from rifle length barrels.

If you really must have a semi-auto, how similar thinking. A Ruger 44Mag carbine, might have to find a use one for your price, but a good choice otherwise. Certainly plenty for deer as long as you don't try extremely long range shots. Only drawback is expensive ammo. Depends on how much you plan to shoot.

So for $400, how about a Marlin lever for hunting, and a second hand Marlin 60 for general plinking.

KriegHund · Jun 12, 2005

Ak's too of course, but they ARE more expensive.

If you are going to get an SKS do not get a 20/30 rnd modded one, they suck.

Get the 10 round built in that uses stripper clips,. Much better.

First Long-gun?

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