How do you like your PTR91s? Questions.

I love my PTR-91

The PTR-91 compares very favorably to an HK91. As you probably know, there aren't a lot of HK91's out there. When you find one in decent condition, the asking price is usually somewhere north of two grand -- often FAR north. For about 1/3 the cost, you can get a brand new PTR-91. JLD Enterprises builds them in the U.S. with a mix of reconditioned G3 parts and new U.S.-made parts (including the receivers and barrels) manufactured using HK-licensed tooling. JLD bought the tooling from Fabrica Militar of Portugal, which had used it to manufacture G3 rifles for the Portuguese military.

My PTR-91 has been absolutely reliable. I've never had a failure of any kind, and it now has several thousand rounds of ammo through it. Most has been milsurp from a variety of sources -- Argentine, Portuguese, Belgian and South African, mostly. I also shoot surplus Lake City M118LR through it, and I've sent several dozen rounds of commercial match quality .308 through its barrel. Accuracy has also been excellent. It shoots much tighter groups than my DSA SA58 (FAL clone). With cheap milsurp ammo and the stock iron sights, I get consistent 2.5" 100 yard groups. With match grade ammo and the scope, I get 1" five shot groups at 100 yards. I haven't shot for groups at over 100 yards since having the trigger smoothed up.

My criticisms of the PTR-91 are few, and they are related entirely to the design of the rifle and not to JLD Enterprises' quality. The triggers on these rifles are typically heavy and gritty out of the box. A trigger job is pretty much mandatory. The "push button" mag release (mandated by BATFE to prevent easy conversion to select fire) is awkward -- an ergonomic nightmare. Conversion to a G3-type paddle release is a professional job that costs around $150, but thankfully there is a better alternative. The Tac-Latch is a drop-in conversion that costs around $45. It's not exactly the same as the G3 paddle (it moves side to side instead front-and-back) but it works as well or even better. One handed mag changes are quick and easy with the Tac-Latch.

My PTR-91 has been tricked out a little. I added a surplus G3 wide forearm with bipod, G3 buttstock, Tac-Latch paddle mag release, Tapco claw mount with picatinny rail adapter, Burris 4-16x 44mm scope, Rooster's tactical sling and a Cherokee snap-on cheekpiece (so I can get a good cheek weld when using the high-mounted scope). I also had Bill Springfield do a trigger job ($49 including shipping!) that eliminated the slack and creep completely and resulted in a nice crisp release with very little overtravel.

Here's my PTR-91:

Ptr-91

I've had the base model PTR-91 since February of this year. I can echo everything that Father Knows Best has said. It's an excellent gun, I highly recommend it. One of the best values out there IMO. About 1500 rounds now of Spanish, Israeli and Belgian surplus with zero problems save for some Israeli duds (not the guns fault).

I have the Bill Springfield trigger job (big improvement, still not a world class trigger but tons better) on mine and G3 furniture (and a G3 sling) also. The stock PTR foregrip on mine actually sagged a little as it started to melt the first time I took it out! The wide foregrip one you listed probably wouldn't have that problem. Besides, G3 stocks are cheap! Mags are cheap too (under $3).

And of course it's not an exact replica of a G3. It would be full auto if it was! The change they made was required to modify the gun enough that you can't just drop in a G3 trigger pack and go full rock-and-roll. I really don't have a problem with the current mag release, but I do plan to get a tac latch when money allows.

No scope on mine, but it's as accurate as I am. 2-3" at 100 yards with mil surplus is about what I'm getting. I can hit a 12" metal plate at 400 yards 2 out of 3 times with the iron sights. I added an HK21 rubber but pad plus a G3 heavy buffer to mine too. The heavy buffer was hard to find but the best money I've spent yet! It's like shooting an AR now.

idakfan said:

Father Knows Best,

Thanks for the detailed post. I thought the PTR91 was an exact replica of the G3/HK91. I don't like the fact that the BATFE has mandated a change that has altered the dynamics of the rifle.

I may just pick up another FAL after hearing about that.

Thanks again!

Click to expand...

Let's be clear -- the PTR-91 is indeed an exact replica of the HK91, or as close to it as you could ever care about. I mentioned that the push-button mag release on the PTR-91 is there because BATFE mandated it, but the HK91 has the same thing. The only rifles with paddle mag releases are selective fire (G3) models that will cost you $10,000+ and a $200 transfer tax, or they are HK91's or PTR-91's that have been converted from the push button mag release to the G3-style paddle mag release. So buying a "real" HK91 won't leave you any better off. It has the exact same push button mag release as the PTR-91.

The reason BATFE mandated the change, by the way, is to make it difficult to convert a semiauto HK91 (or PTR-91) to full auto. In the G3/91 design, the fire control group resides in the lower receiver with the trigger and pistol grip. In the G3, it attached to the upper receiver via a pin at the front of the lower. The pin goes through a sleeve in the upper receiver. BATFE mandated that H&K elimimate that sleeve from the semiauto version (HK91), because otherwise you could convert a semitauto HK91 to selective fire just by swapping out the lower for a readily available G3 lower. With the sleeve removed, there is no way to attach the G3 lower to the semiauto upper.

So, H&K complied by eliminating the sleeve. HK91 lowers (which are used on the PTR-91) attach by clipping over a ledge on the upper, instead of via the pin-in-sleeve arrangement of the G3.

Unfortunately, that sleeve was also the pivot point for the mag release. When the sleeve was eliminated, that left nowhere for the paddle. H&K took the cheap and easy way out and just eliminated the paddle altogether. Some gunsmiths will do a conversion that LOOKS like the G3 pin arrangement, but is just different enough to make it impossible to attach a G3 lower, so they're still legal. That conversion costs about $150, plus you need to have your rifle refinished when they're done. Or you can drop in a Tac-Latch, which costs $40 and can be installed in about 10 minutes, and works just as well even if it looks a little different that a real G3 paddle mag release.

I like my PTR91 just fine and I don't need a paddle release for the magazine catch.
I did put a Limbsaver small size slip on recoil pad on the rifle and this makes the buttstock long enough for me and also makes the felt recoil comfortable enough to shoot the rifle off a bench all day if I choose to.
Spare magazine are $6-$15 each, the gun is reliable and accurate, ammunition is still cheap.
The time to buy one of these things is now.

Onmilo said:

Spare magazine are $6-$15 each, the gun is reliable and accurate, ammunition is still cheap.

Click to expand...

Dude, you are getting ripped off. I'll sell you all the spare 20 round G3 mags you want for just $5 each. That's cause I pay less than $2 each for them. You want 50 of 'em? Say the word!

Check the ads in any issue of Shotgun News and you'll find a couple of places selling them for $1.97 or so each in small quantities, and as little as $1 each if you want to buy enough to outfit a third world army....

Onmilo said:

The time to buy one of these things is now.

Click to expand...

+1. I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, I'm about to get another one. I'm thinking of getting one of the carbine versions with the collapsing stock, just for grins.

You suggest spending $150.00 on a paddle magazine release and accuse me of being ripped off because I suggest magazines can be had for $6-$15 bucks??!!
But then you will gladly make things right by selling me your $2 magazines for $5
Rest assured I have been in this game far too long to be ripped off.
$6 to $15 will get a buyer brand new steel magazines still in the wrapper.
What are you offering?
Used aluminum training magazines at better than 100% mark-up?
Thanks but I believe I'll pass on the offer,,,,,

Relax, Omnilo. You're taking yourself too seriously. I was kidding. My point was that you don't need to spend $6-15 each for mags, as they're readily available for $2 each. If it's important to you to get steel mags new in the wrapper, then go ahead and pay that amount. I've got three or four steel mags, and about 40 aluminum ones. The only difference between them is that the steel ones weigh a lot more. The alloy ones work just fine, and are a lot cheaper -- even the used ones. The last batch I bought (20 for $40) included quite a range of conditions. Some were like new, while others showed scuffs and wear. They all work just fine.

And read my posts again -- nowhere do I recommend paying $150 for a paddle mag release. I simply stated that if you want your PTR-91 to look like a G3, there are smiths who will do the conversion for you. $150 is roughly what it costs, plus the cost of refinishing your rifle. I certainly don't recommend you do it. Instead, I recommended the Tac-Latch, which works just as well, can be installed yourself, costs just $40, and doesn't require refinishing your rifle!

If you're ever in Memphis, I've got a cold beer waiting for you....

Father Knows Best said:

JLD Enterprises builds them in the U.S. with a mix of reconditioned G3 parts and new U.S.-made parts (including the receivers and barrels) manufactured using HK-licensed tooling. JLD bought the tooling from Fabrica Militar of Portugal, which had used it to manufacture G3 rifles for the Portuguese military.

Click to expand...

I am a bit confused by this. I thought they were made of new and used parts as well so emailed JLD awhile back and got this response, which seems to suggest they are completely new guns:

They are all brand new and manufactured in Farmington CT , no used parts, some new parts from (FMP) HK licensed factory that we purchased in Portugal. If you go to our web page www.jldenter.com and click on each rifle another page will open with all the particulars of the rifle.
Thank you
Victor
JLD

Click to expand...

Fingolfin said:

I am a bit confused by this. I thought they were made of new and used parts as well so emailed JLD awhile back and got this response, which seems to suggest they are completely new guns:

Click to expand...

JLD would know better than I would. I knew for a fact that the barrels, upper receivers and stocks were new US-made parts. My PTR-91 has some markings on the lower receiver and backplate, however, that I assumed indicated they were originally built for other purposes and refinished by JLD. That may still be true, but it sounds like JLD is saying that those parts, even if not made by JLD, were unissued parts built by FMP (Fabrica Militar Portugal) before FMP shut down G3 production and sold its tooling to JLD. Thus, they are "new" in the sense that they were never issued or used to assemble other rifles.

You do need to be a little careful of one thing -- not all HK91 clones with JLD receivers are the same. JLD sells its receivers to other builders who assemble HK91 clones using surplus G3 parts kits, which are used parts. So you can find a rifle that looks just like a JLD PTR-91, and is marked JLD Enterprises and PTR-91 on the receiver, but is not all new JLD parts. I don't know for certain how to tell the difference, but I've heard others say that JLD rifles all carry serial numbers starting with the letter A, and when JLD sells just the receiver for someone else to assemble the serial number starts with the letter B. My all-JLD rifle is serial number A10xx, so that's consistent, anyway.

If you haven't done so already, suggest you borrow a rifle and try it out. Found out that I REALLY don't like the operating rod location and action...maybe I'm just getting lazy in my old age! Tried to put a very long scope on mine...found it in the way of operating rod use...

Fingolfin said:

I am a bit confused by this. I thought they were made of new and used parts as well so emailed JLD awhile back and got this response, which seems to suggest they are completely new guns:

Click to expand...

That confuses me too. I e-mailed JLD a while back to ask about the legality of replacing their stock with a G3 surplus one. They replied back that I had one part to spare before I was at the maximum 10 imported parts allowed by law--so I could legally change out the foregrip or the butt stock, but not both.

"JLD sells its receivers to other builders who assemble HK91 clones using surplus G3 parts kits, which are used parts. "

This, to me at least, is good.
I bought a G3 parts kit as well as a JLD receiver and sent it all to Investment Grade Firearms who built my rifle. The only parts that arn't real genuine HK military parts are the receiver and the parts mandated by ATF. This includes a genuine HK barrel with a fluted chamber.
I have another one being built with a HK G36 railed forarm and a 12" barrel.

Give me the details on this trigger job. I don't normally mess with triggers, but these HK triggers are the worst of anything I have ever bought.

FWIW, I think the ergonomics of this rifle are pretty bad. But, I don't think any of the 7.62 Battle Rifles have great ergonomics. The sights are mediocre at best. Accuracy is really good, dare I say impressive. Ironically, a year ago this month, I shot a rifle match and at the end of the match, we had a little side match for a turkey. The course of fire was off hand at 400 yards at a steel plate about 20 inch square. I borrowed a buddies JLD (assembled from a parts kit+JLD receiver) and hit 3 out of five.
I lost to a guy that got 4 for 5 with a Sweede Ljungman (sp ?).

I've only had my PTR-91 for 2 weeks or so but I need to say something. I hear all the time how bad the ergonomics are on these, I believed this until I actually got mine. It feels fantastic! Balance is perfect, I can reach the selector lever and mag release without moving my hand from the pistol grip, and I personally find the sights great. I may be larger than average but I'm no giant by any means, and my hands aren't THAT big. This rifle is more comfortable to shoulder than my M14 and it feels much handier. It sure has exceeded my expectations by a long shot.

444 said:

"JLD sells its receivers to other builders who assemble HK91 clones using surplus G3 parts kits, which are used parts. "

This, to me at least, is good.

Click to expand...

I agree. I like the JLD barrels and receivers, but I'm not happy with the US-made furniture JLD uses. That's why I replaced mine with a surplus G3 set.

444 said:

Give me the details on this trigger job. I don't normally mess with triggers, but these HK triggers are the worst of anything I have ever bought.

Click to expand...

Yeah, the HK triggers are horrible. Mine was so heavy it was off the scale on my trigger gauge. It had a lot of slack, and the break was long and gritty.

Bill Springfield did the trigger job for me. He hangs out at www.cetmerifles.com and is highly thought of. His standard trigger job is $35, and for an additional $14 ($49 total) he'll also remove all the take-up. I had him do the full $49 package, and it was money well spent. There is now no slack at all, and it breaks like the proverbial "glass rod" at just shy of 5 pounds. By the way, that $49 includes return shipping. He's also fast. I put my lower in the mail to him on Monday, and it was back at my door on Friday.

444 said:

The sights are mediocre at best. Accuracy is really good, dare I say impressive.

Click to expand...

I like the sights, and think they're great for a battle rifle. I have the JLD rear drum, which has 4 peep positions. If you have a G3 drum, then you've got the notch for the 100 meter setting, which I don't like as much.

I agree on the accuracy. My PTR-91 is far more accurate than my DSA SA58.

" He hangs out at www.cetmerifles.com and is highly thought of. "

Not to be obnoxious, but how do I find him there ?
I checked the members list and he doesn't go by his name.

Father Knows Best said:

I agree. I like the JLD barrels and receivers, but I'm not happy with the US-made furniture JLD uses. That's why I replaced mine with a surplus G3 set.


Yeah, the HK triggers are horrible. Mine was so heavy it was off the scale on my trigger gauge. It had a lot of slack, and the break was long and gritty.

Bill Springfield did the trigger job for me. He hangs out at www.cetmerifles.com and is highly thought of. His standard trigger job is $35, and for an additional $14 ($49 total) he'll also remove all the take-up. I had him do the full $49 package, and it was money well spent. There is now no slack at all, and it breaks like the proverbial "glass rod" at just shy of 5 pounds. By the way, that $49 includes return shipping. He's also fast. I put my lower in the mail to him on Monday, and it was back at my door on Friday.


I like the sights, and think they're great for a battle rifle. I have the JLD rear drum, which has 4 peep positions. If you have a G3 drum, then you've got the notch for the 100 meter setting, which I don't like as much.

I agree on the accuracy. My PTR-91 is far more accurate than my DSA SA58.

Click to expand...

FKB - FWIW - you may want to check your parts count with both stocks installed.

444 said:

" He hangs out at www.cetmerifles.com and is highly thought of. "

Not to be obnoxious, but how do I find him there ?
I checked the members list and he doesn't go by his name.

Click to expand...

His cetmerifles.com screen name is "bspring" and his email is [email protected]

Basically what everbody else said. Great rifle, no malfunctions. Very very mechanically accurate for a magazine fed, semi-auto, old school rifle. I got a couple of 5 shot groups at 100 yards that were quarter sized once I got her sighted in recently. This was not my shooting skill since I am not marksman with iron sights but several of my groups were this small.

Here is a previous review I did that might help.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=156716&highlight=PTR-91

Here is a pic of my Green Meanie.

Is it easy to mount a scope on this rifle?

I'm kind of torn right now. I was thinking of bulding an AR A3 with a scope, but this was always in the back of my mind. To be sure, it's way more expensive and it's huge compared to an AR. How does it compare accuracy wise? Is it as easy to modify as the AR? How about the availability of spare parts?

RavenVT100 said:

Is it easy to mount a scope on this rifle?

I'm kind of torn right now. I was thinking of bulding an AR A3 with a scope, but this was always in the back of my mind. To be sure, it's way more expensive and it's huge compared to an AR. How does it compare accuracy wise? Is it as easy to modify as the AR? How about the availability of spare parts?

Click to expand...

It's very easy to scope a PTR-91. You just need the "claw" mount, and a picatinny rail adapter for it (because the claw mount is designed for STANAG scopes). Original HK claw mounts are expensive -- about $200. Tapco makes a repro, though, that sells for about $95 complete with the adapter. See here: http://www.tapco.com/product_information.asp?number=ZMNT9903&back=yes&dept=101&last=75 . There are other mounts available, but I don't have any personal experience with them.

Any weaver-style rings will work with the claw mount and picatinny adapter rail. If you look at the picture further up this thread showing my PTR-91, it's wearing a Tapco claw mount and picatinny adapter. The Burris Signature Select 4-16x 44 mm scope is mounted on it using medium height Burris Zee rings. The entire unit can be removed and remounted in seconds without loss of zero, and you can still use the iron sights. About the only disadvantage is that the scope sits pretty high above the bore, making the use of a cheek riser pretty much mandatory or you'll never get a good cheek weld.

The HK-91/PTR-91 is among the most accurate of the 7.62x51 battle rifles. H&K made sniper versions (the PSG-1 and MSG-90) that are legendary for their accuracy. A standard PTR-91 won't be as accurate as an AR, however, largely because of the AR's free floated barrel (the PSG-1's barrel is also free floating, but a PSG-1 will cost you $5,000+).