AR-15 vs SU-16CA

I've got a CA for the most part. Recoil is slightly more than an AR, if only because the SU-16 is a fair bit lighter. Accuracy for AR's varries pretty wildly but the SU-16 is certainly more accurate than the bottom of the barrel AR's out there, my best group thusfar was just -baaaarely- over an inch with Winchester black box so we're talking very accurate.

The SU is reliable, versatile and quite accurate. Its a great rifle, and much more than a CA legal AR alternative.

I had 2 previous AR's. (I abandoned the AR platform for the CA AWB )
I have a mini-14
I have a SU-16CA
I have a LRB/TRW M14SA

Accuracy was best out of my heavybarrel 16" Armalight AR. I logged a 1MOA group at 100 yds with scope. (keep in mind I am only a average shooter)

Mini-14 accuracy varies between 3-8" at 100 yds (avg 4-5), even with scope :banghead: . The skinny barrel heats up quick.

Accuracy on my SU seems to be getting 2-3" with irons. I have yet to put a scope on it, but I think on a great day it could go MOA. Seriously though, I do not use or expect the greatest of accuracy out of it. This gun is my fun gun shoot'em up rifle. It is very light and convienent, something I would consider for SHTF/truck gun/3 gun match, but......

I'll take my M14 for serious shooting. Logged a 1/2" group at 50 with irons. Went to 4+" at 200. My eyesight is not the greatest.

The SU-16CA is the best Kali legal .223 repeating centerfire rifle currently on the market.

If you have the funds, M14/M1A is the way to go for 7.62/.308

I would also much rather be stranded in the wild with this than with a .22

sold my bushie dissapator due to the calliban, got a su16b. the following are my personal observations...

the b is way lighter 'than was my dissapator'
the b is more accurate
the b is more reliable
the b has less felt recioil (maybe a better cheak weld, or due to more recoiling mass, dispite a lighter rifle)
the b is much easier to clean
the b could shoot way more before fouling makes it finikey/unreliable (~250rounds in ar, unknown in b, hasnt ever been a problem yet)

but the dissapator has 'war history' and looks on its side. I am happier with my keltec than i was with the bushmaster... (call me nuts, but the above list makes it clear to me).

thats my experience...

now if keltec made a 7.63x39 variant that took ak mags... i would be so all over it... (man, i miss my ak's)-

The SU16 is a great rifle. A lot of people have been getting MOA accuracy out of them, which is incredible for a gun that costs half as much as an AR and accepts all the same magazines.

Never heard anything bad about reliability, except that old wolf lacquered 5.56 would bind on the chamber walls and the extractor would rip the shell half apart in its furious effort to extract it. This was an occaisional occurrence on a few guns and the newer wolf doesnt have this problem.

Considering that the ARs usually handled wolf lacquered by either gumming up or by damaging their extractors, this is probably a failure mode that makes the SU16 look good. Being able to shoot steel cased 5.56 is pretty close to a miracle.

In summary, Kel-tec continues to produce awesome guns.

A tight bore and a rather overpowered extractor make this remarkably accurate rifle very reliable, it also means that if that round just dont wanna come out..the extractor will simply tear it to shreds.

This is worth a look at: http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/Carbon15/azc-c15rm4ft.asp

There are only two reasons to choose the SU-16 over an AR..

1. You live in Kali Or 2. You can't afford or just don't want an AR...

I got a Bushmaster, love it. In thousands of rounds fired, mostly wolf and a little WWB, I can count on one hand the number of failures, ammo related or otherwise. I later looked at an SU-16 because of it's abilities to fold and taking AR mags were attractive,, but decided to get more ammo and build an AR pistol instead Still haven't fired an SU-16, but having an op-rod design like the AK but with an AR bolt and lighter, I bet the perceived recoil is more. Which would make for ever so slightly slower follow up shots if that sorta thing matters to you. Kel Tec does get a big thumbs up for slowing the death of the Second Ammendment with all of their innovative firearms(like folding DURING the ban, and little cute pistols little old ladies can use )

Personally, I have a strong dislike of the M16/AR-15 platform, so I speak with that bias: but I prefer the Kel-Tec SU16 to the AR15 in many ways.

1. It's got a decent gas-piston action, which means that the AR-15's ghastly direct-impingement gas system is no longer an issue.

2. It's much lighter than most AR-15's. Given the minimalist nature of the 5.56mm. cartridge, a lightweight weapon is, to my mind, a much more sensible match for the round.

3. It folds for ease of carry, storage, etc. The SU16C model can even be fired while folded. This isn't important for most uses, but does help when travelling (it's a wonderful carbine for suitcase carry), and if I have to deploy it in a hurry at close range, it's comforting to know I can fire it while folded.

4. It's very accurate for so low-cost a weapon. I've found many brands of ammo will give solid 1-2 MOA performance all day long. The Mini-14, by comparison, is typically a 3-4 MOA gun at best. A decent AR-15 will be as accurate as the SU16, and a top-of-the-line AR even more so, but at twice the price or more.

5. I don't like carbines or rifles with a whole lot of hardware bolted on to them. I'm not going to be carrying a rifle with an attached flashlight, vertical foregrip, laser designator, coffee maker and hairdryer, as seems to be the case with so many "tacti-cool" AR-15's. The Kel-Tec is a light, handy weapon that carries very easily. Just what I want!

Thus, of my four 5.56mm. carbines and rifles, two are Kel-Tec's of various models.

Su-16 is the equivalent of HK G36 to me.
Much cleaner system than AR. Aside from bore-snaking, mine has gone through 1,200 rounds without any detail-stripping/cleaning.

Just for the record...

It takes a LOT of CARBON FOULING(and I MEAN A LOT!!!), to disable a well constructed AR-15(A,B,C's). I know from personal experience that ~650-700 rounds of laquered Wolf won't stop it(but damned if that red primer sealant did'nt work i'ts way into every crevice ), took forever to clean the bore and bolt back to stat quo, but a necessary reliability test...

If your AR won't fire more rounds than you can comfortably carry WITHOUT A FIELD STRIPPING FOR DETAIL CLEANING, I would get a refund and put it towards a real gun

Now as the,"Human Torch", says," FLAME ON!!!!!!!!".

Hmmm, I ain't much of a fan of the 22 round, but the KelTec does look kinda neat, and easy for the wife to use....