Brian Williams
Moderator Emeritus
They are not PMSing all the time. Not every woman has the aggressive desire to compete like men do. When the do get it they normally have a lot of support like you said, from men.
Why don't women do well at combat matches?
- Thread starter Brian Williams
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They are not PMSing all the time. Not every woman has the aggressive desire to compete like men do. When the do get it they normally have a lot of support like you said, from men.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Women
Don't know about national level, but we've got a local gal that I first met when she was about 17 years old...and no bigger than a knucklebone...who endured the usual comments from all the big strong men that she got with a pretty smile and a quiet, respectful response...just before she wore'em out in the plate matches and various IDPA stages. She's about 24 now, with a new baby of her own...and she still shows up from time to time just to make a few of the guys nervous. Yes...her father was her mentor, pistolsmith, and support base during the formative years, and a proud papa he is.
She says that as soon as her little one is a bit older, she's gonna get back into the game. So...if you should happen to run into a little strawberry blond...about 5'3"and 110 pounds at a match around the southeastern U.S. who has a disarming smile, Cover Girl skin, emerald green eyes, and a soft, southern accent...don't be surprised if she knocks ya clean outta the runnin' early on. Young guys...Don't even bother to hope. She's completely married to her childhood sweetheart.
Don't know about national level, but we've got a local gal that I first met when she was about 17 years old...and no bigger than a knucklebone...who endured the usual comments from all the big strong men that she got with a pretty smile and a quiet, respectful response...just before she wore'em out in the plate matches and various IDPA stages. She's about 24 now, with a new baby of her own...and she still shows up from time to time just to make a few of the guys nervous. Yes...her father was her mentor, pistolsmith, and support base during the formative years, and a proud papa he is.
She says that as soon as her little one is a bit older, she's gonna get back into the game. So...if you should happen to run into a little strawberry blond...about 5'3"and 110 pounds at a match around the southeastern U.S. who has a disarming smile, Cover Girl skin, emerald green eyes, and a soft, southern accent...don't be surprised if she knocks ya clean outta the runnin' early on. Young guys...Don't even bother to hope. She's completely married to her childhood sweetheart.
Molon Labe
Member
Men out-perform women in almost every human endeavor. This is not a sexist comment - it's simply a fact. Why this is so has been the subject of countless PhD theses.
357wheelgunner
Member
I'd say it's because men have been the warriors for the last few thousand years.....
bogie
Member
I suppose you're ignoring the world of highpower and Camp Perry... And the Tompkins-Gallagher girls...
1911 guy
Member
Percentage of competitors.
We all know that the vast majority of competitors at most shooting events are men. So it stands to reason that most top performers are men. I wonder what would happen if more women competed to even the balance between male and female entrants.
Few women I know have the desire to shoot beyond informal plinking, those that do have real potential. Makes me wonder. Just one final comment to really torque off some in this discussion, gun games aren't combat, either. If you don't believe me, ask a few others on this forum. I've never peed myself during a game or puked after one.
We all know that the vast majority of competitors at most shooting events are men. So it stands to reason that most top performers are men. I wonder what would happen if more women competed to even the balance between male and female entrants.
Few women I know have the desire to shoot beyond informal plinking, those that do have real potential. Makes me wonder. Just one final comment to really torque off some in this discussion, gun games aren't combat, either. If you don't believe me, ask a few others on this forum. I've never peed myself during a game or puked after one.
Thain
Member
Wait a minute... Bullseye isn't a combat discipline?
Lyudmila Pavlichenko, Nina Alexeyevna Lobkovskaya, and 618 dead Germans might take issue with that.
Lyudmila Pavlichenko, Nina Alexeyevna Lobkovskaya, and 618 dead Germans might take issue with that.
mrmeval
Member
This thread seems to have been started as a troll.
Thain said:Wait a minute... Bullseye isn't a combat discipline?
Lyudmila Pavlichenko, Nina Alexeyevna Lobkovskaya, and 618 dead Germans might take issue with that.
1911Tuner said:She says that as soon as her little one is a bit older, she's gonna get back into the game. So...if you should happen to run into a little strawberry blond...about 5'3"and 110 pounds at a match around the southeastern U.S. who has a disarming smile, Cover Girl skin, emerald green eyes, and a soft, southern accent...don't be surprised if she knocks ya clean outta the runnin' early on. Young guys...Don't even bother to hope. She's completely married to her childhood sweetheart.
Thanks Tuner. Give us young men hope that the women of our dreams exist, but not surprisingly are taken.
Thain
Member
Some of his points are correct...
True Bullseye and IPDA are not combat.
(Who ever said they were? The rifle range at Boot Camp ain't combat either... but the military still puts every recruit through it... )
True More men than women are IPDA champions.
(But there are more men at the lowest ranks of IPDA than women... On a percentage basis {women in sport/women champions} vs. {men in sport/men champions} I beleive women actually come out better! )
True Women in the sport usually have male support.
(So do the men. There are more men in the sport then women! Of course, a women in the sport is more likly to have another woman as a coach or mentor than a man is to have a woman as a coach or mentor. Disporportionally so, I would wager.)
Of course, the conclusions he draws from these facts are completly in error. That doesn't make him a Troll, it just makes him wrong.
True Bullseye and IPDA are not combat.
(Who ever said they were? The rifle range at Boot Camp ain't combat either... but the military still puts every recruit through it...
)True More men than women are IPDA champions.
(But there are more men at the lowest ranks of IPDA than women... On a percentage basis {women in sport/women champions} vs. {men in sport/men champions} I beleive women actually come out better!
)True Women in the sport usually have male support.
(So do the men. There are more men in the sport then women! Of course, a women in the sport is more likly to have another woman as a coach or mentor than a man is to have a woman as a coach or mentor. Disporportionally so, I would wager.)
Of course, the conclusions he draws from these facts are completly in error. That doesn't make him a Troll, it just makes him wrong.
madmike
Member
The female SFC who led my Company's military combat match team, the female A10 jock who took 4th and the female Engineer who was on our team for RC3 would take exception to this silly statement.
Of course, those were REAL military matches. You know--stock, as-issued weapon, issue ammo, helmet, body armor, 2 mile run with gear before shooting, 100m sprints forward to each new position, slow fire, timed and rapid with multiple magazine changes.
Of course, those were REAL military matches. You know--stock, as-issued weapon, issue ammo, helmet, body armor, 2 mile run with gear before shooting, 100m sprints forward to each new position, slow fire, timed and rapid with multiple magazine changes.
dasmi
Member
/me waits for Pax to show up.
Oh, ya, woman suck at combat.
Nina_Alexeyevna_Lobkovskaya, credited with 309 kills.
Lyudmila Pavlichenko, also credited with 309 kills. Recieved Gold Star, and Hero of the Soviet Union.
Oh, ya, woman suck at combat.
Nina_Alexeyevna_Lobkovskaya, credited with 309 kills.
Lyudmila Pavlichenko, also credited with 309 kills. Recieved Gold Star, and Hero of the Soviet Union.
madmike
Member
Lawrenceof said:
Really? Tell me of your bravery in service to your country, pal.
And any time you want to take 1967 issue H&R M16A1s, 3 mags (3, 3, 4), and do 10 rounds in fifteen seconds offhand at 100 meters, let me know. Or drive a convoy through Baghdad.
Until then, you're just a range queen.
Mods, please delete this obvious troll.
NineseveN
member
Why? Probably because instead of "playing combat", they're fighting in it, over in places most so-called sportsmen would not dare to tread (maybe even me included). There's not a lot of them, I'm glad they're where it counts, not where they count scores.
So yeah, you guys can play dress up and pretend the plates and paper are insurgents and that you're just soooo bad because you get a neato title and a trophy, I'd let any woman I know that has served in combat back me up over a 'gamesman' any day.
So yeah, you guys can play dress up and pretend the plates and paper are insurgents and that you're just soooo bad because you get a neato title and a trophy, I'd let any woman I know that has served in combat back me up over a 'gamesman' any day.
The-Fly
Member
i know of 2 women that regularly shoot in at our club IDPA monthly match, and they both do pretty good, placing in the top 1/3. I wish i shot as good as they do.
madmike
Member
middy said:
Not sure on that. I do know that for some reason, female IDF troops never manage to bring back prisoners.
Pity.
I have less than zero experience with IDPA or any other of those competitive shooting styles.
That being said, last time I went to the range, a very attractive young (young to me, actual age under 30) woman cleaned my clock. She was shooting a Springfield GI-45, same as me. While most of my shots were within the 8-ring, I don't think she had one even close to the outer edge of the 9.
was my response every time she brought in her targets.
That being said, last time I went to the range, a very attractive young (young to me, actual age under 30) woman cleaned my clock. She was shooting a Springfield GI-45, same as me. While most of my shots were within the 8-ring, I don't think she had one even close to the outer edge of the 9.
was my response every time she brought in her targets.Snake Eyes
Member
I've got $100 that says Lawrenceof is single.
madmike
Member
Snake Eyes said:
And young, and not really that good a shot.
No bet.
Father Knows Best
Member
The reason you don't find women at the top of the combat shooting sports is that so few participate in shooting sports in general, and in combat shooting sports in particular. For every woman who decides to compete in IPSC or IPDA, there are hundreds of men. It stands to reason that you won't see many at the "top" of the sport.
If you had equal numbers of men and women entering the sport, with equal experience and background in shooting, you'd have equal numbers in the winners' circle.
If you had equal numbers of men and women entering the sport, with equal experience and background in shooting, you'd have equal numbers in the winners' circle.
madmike
Member
Lawrenceof said:Pagosa Springs, CO, 81147, Welcher. My name is well known. Anybody who'd to try drawing FIRST against my world class ccw draw is welcome to try.
Oh? How many combat tours do they have? (And since they may, I don't know, how many do YOU have, "real gunhandler"? I can get you a $20K bonus to come on board, and close to $120K a year in the Zone. Should I send a recruiter over? You can even show our Rangers what they're doing wrong. I'm sure they'd be DELIGHTED to learn from you.)
<>
(CCW...isn't that something CIVILIANS do? I thought "real gunhandlers" kept them in hand.)
My experience tells me that the reason women don't do all that well in IDPA or IPSC is all about attitude and the basic differences between male and female. Men are warriors and women are nurturers - that's the way nature or god meant it to be (take your pick - either way it's how we evolved biologically and socially).
For example my eldest daughter can shoot the eye out of a gnat with a .22LR at 100 yards or put 6 of 6 in the X ring at 25 yards with a .44 Mag revolver. She can do it firing slow and with just a small decrease in accuracy faster. But try as I might I just can't get her to go shoot IPSC with me. Action shooting just isn't in her bag of interests (and she's an ex-Marine - so go figure).
I see the same thing in my wife. She can spend a day shooting her CZ-75 and loving it but the idea of shooting in an action competition just doesn't interest her.
In the IPSC group I shoot with there are two ladies, both the wives of other IPSC shooters. They both place in the bottom third in every match. One is in her 60's one in her 20's. They both enjoy it but you can tell that their hearts really aren't in it - meaning they really aren't all that concerned with going fast though both are concerned with hitting. From talking with them they're primarily there because it is what their husbands enjoy and because they enjoy it then the wives do too and participate with them.
Both women are excellent shots with both handguns and long guns but neither is really into the competition or the action style.
I believe that for men action shooting is a way to release pent up energy and needs that exist because the male of the species is the fighter, hunter, protector. For the female shooting is more an exercise in control, precision, practical skill building, cameraderie etc.
For example my eldest daughter can shoot the eye out of a gnat with a .22LR at 100 yards or put 6 of 6 in the X ring at 25 yards with a .44 Mag revolver. She can do it firing slow and with just a small decrease in accuracy faster. But try as I might I just can't get her to go shoot IPSC with me. Action shooting just isn't in her bag of interests (and she's an ex-Marine - so go figure).
I see the same thing in my wife. She can spend a day shooting her CZ-75 and loving it but the idea of shooting in an action competition just doesn't interest her.
In the IPSC group I shoot with there are two ladies, both the wives of other IPSC shooters. They both place in the bottom third in every match. One is in her 60's one in her 20's. They both enjoy it but you can tell that their hearts really aren't in it - meaning they really aren't all that concerned with going fast though both are concerned with hitting. From talking with them they're primarily there because it is what their husbands enjoy and because they enjoy it then the wives do too and participate with them.
Both women are excellent shots with both handguns and long guns but neither is really into the competition or the action style.
I believe that for men action shooting is a way to release pent up energy and needs that exist because the male of the species is the fighter, hunter, protector. For the female shooting is more an exercise in control, precision, practical skill building, cameraderie etc.
Lawrenceof? I've got another C-note that says he'll be staying single for a good while.
...And Molon Labe: y'all go deliver yourself of a baby, okay, then come back and tell me how men are better at everything.
Also, please tell me when was the last time you asked a woman in your life the location of some item of yours? Men in general stink at remembering where things are. Come to think of it, they also tend to stink at putting things back where they go, too. Why is that?
Combat shooting, never did any. Hope to some day. Score, I'm not so worried about; more concerned about building the skills that make it more likely I can get out of a bad situation more or less intact. Isn't that the point?
Oh, that reminds me of another thing many men aren't very good at: putting things in the context of the actual real world.
Sad, really: were it not for us dear little girlies* you'd go through life unwashed, with mismatched or missing socks, never finding your spare car keys or the new reloading dies, playing games without figuring out the lessons those games were intended to teach...
But you don't require batteries and that's not nothin'.
--Herself
_______________________
* I've been able to look most men eye-to-eye at the same level since I was in Jr. High: not little, not dear. All girl.
...And Molon Labe: y'all go deliver yourself of a baby, okay, then come back and tell me how men are better at everything.
Also, please tell me when was the last time you asked a woman in your life the location of some item of yours? Men in general stink at remembering where things are. Come to think of it, they also tend to stink at putting things back where they go, too. Why is that?
Combat shooting, never did any. Hope to some day. Score, I'm not so worried about; more concerned about building the skills that make it more likely I can get out of a bad situation more or less intact. Isn't that the point?
Oh, that reminds me of another thing many men aren't very good at: putting things in the context of the actual real world.
Sad, really: were it not for us dear little girlies* you'd go through life unwashed, with mismatched or missing socks, never finding your spare car keys or the new reloading dies, playing games without figuring out the lessons those games were intended to teach...
But you don't require batteries and that's not nothin'.
--Herself
_______________________
* I've been able to look most men eye-to-eye at the same level since I was in Jr. High: not little, not dear. All girl.
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